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  #151  
Old 03-Oct-17, 05:09
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I believe you said yourself that African-Americans and African-Carribeans have advantages in sprinting?

Clearly when an ethnic group only has an average height of 5'2" (such as Yemen) it's going to be very difficult (albeit not impossible IMO) to find people with exceptional athletic attributes to compete on a world level and that is reflected in the results to the point that women can sometimes beat their top athletes. Even the best Indian sprinter - from a nation of 1 billion people with plenty of funding behind its sportspeople - is still not that impressive compared to much smaller nations. Pakistan's best pole vaulter on record cannot beat Yelena Isenbayeva, let alone compete with top men.

Personally, I don't like to scantly disregard individuals, however. A great athlete could come from the Middle East but the realist is aware other parts of the world have shown to have a greater abundance of athletically gifted individuals.



Who said it did? This is just your insecurity shining through again.

When people make comments like this, they are often talking averages and in many European countries (such as in this thread) their women are, on average, taller than men from Nepal, Yemen, etc.
i never said that genetics doesn t play any role.
i just said that this wasn t the only parameter like al89 is claiming.
and the differences between men and women are bigger than between men of different countries since the latter have testosteron, which is a huge advantage.


West African men can run the 100 m under 10` and others usually can get their records around 10`01 and 10 10` if their training possibilities and track and field structures are optimal (Iran, South Korea for example).

But countries having their record above the 10´60 are clearly underdevelopped in the field.


moreover the assertions: "100 m is just about raw athleticism", "the genetics evaporates in 60 years"
or " they have a stadium with a track on it, so they could train" are totally stupid.

i showed between North Korea and South Korea the effects of the environement on such performances.
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  #152  
Old 03-Oct-17, 14:01
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
the real question is how such a devastating victory of some weak humiliated bla bla bla middle east men to the best female sports nation of the world is possible.

With a crushing advantadge of a population 4 times larger!!!

and women could not get one win in track and fields!

hourray small middle east iranian men for this total victory!!
So now we've come to the point where women beaten by men in sports is devastating for women?

If anything, that's just another compliment to those female athletes if they set the bar for themselves so high. They made even people like you respect them and fear them. I bet you felt relief when you saw that Iran wasn't getting trashed by them as well.

Also, the average height of the Iranian men is 5'7'' (170cm) and they produced some combat sport heavyweight athletes so they're definitely not that small.

And those men STILL got crushed and humiliated by the Russian girl Yulia Efimova. You failed to answer this one, why was this "mere woman" able to do that to them?

Why couldn't your male heroes from Iran beat this young lady?



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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
moreover the assertions: "100 m is just about raw athleticism", "the genetics evaporates in 60 years"
You are lying and manipulating again, I clearly never said those things. I said that 100m sprint is mostly about raw athleticism and that athleticism diminished in the last decades (and their results show that, they can't break their own records anymore).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Indeed. I was looking back at some of these 'triggered' guys posting history and they seem to share a few common traits.

For one, they mostly seem to be lurkers - long time members with very little contribution and appearance. In a way, perhaps you should feel honoured that your thread brought them out of hibernation, they so rarely post anything after all!

It's also not the first time garcon55 has come stomping into a fun thread waxing lyrical about the USWNT losing to the Indian U15s and gloating about it as if anyone is even bothered. I also remember a thread where I praised some female race car drivers and he came stomping in telling us they wouldn't make it in Formula 1 which takes more skill and all F1 drivers are men. It clearly does hurt his pride to see occasions where men lose fair and square in sports and always feels the need to counter it by citing examples of men being more successful as if that mitigates the other men's defeat. It doesn't.
You described them well! Their number of posts to being thanked ratio is horrible too. Normally I wouldn't care if their views are not popular but this forum is about fun contributions and not about arguing. So this tells me they're not really contributing anything but are more of a nuisance here. On the other hand, people who like this thread are mostly established members who have contributed a lot.

A lot of men are bothered by the entire existence of female sport. They simply can't handle the fact that you now have women who train hard while many men are out of shape. They know that those women would outperform them in physical activities and it makes them uncomfortable, that's why they go in full damage control when talking about women sports. They essentially want to create this image that men are so naturally superior in sports that even the best women are way inferior and their events are just some side show.

Some of these men might not be against women in sports as such but want to have that illusion of "I would quickly become better than them if I only started to train" because for them "men are so naturally superior to women in sports it's not even close". For some men here women beating men is just a fantasy and they get very uncomfortable when things become too real.

What they do really discourages women to take part in sports! They're basically telling them that even if they perform at their best they're still going to be way inferior to men. It's very hurtful and insulting.

But the reality turns out to be different! This thread shows that the differences aren't that big and that there are entire countries of men who can't beat top records of women from other countries in sports where we can objectively compare their performances.

I think the reason why the defeat of the Yemenis and the Afghanis bothers the likes of garcon in particular is because he probably has similar views about women as those two societies. From what he displayed so far, he is very disrespectful to women and he's gloating about their defeats. In turn, he NEVER gives any credit or compliment to women beating male records. We gave our compliments and credit to those U15 boys but he didn't have a single positive word about women in this thread.

It's also hilarious when butthurt men compare supporting female athletes to feminism. Feminists want equality and complain about things. Female athletes are the exact opposite, they want to be superior (because that's what sports are about, it's the ultimate anti-equality thing), work hard and don't complain. They are very competitive and can be an inspiration to men too. I can't see why anyone would want to downplay their achievements other than out of frustration. The whole "I'm against feminist propaganda" excuse doesn't fly here because feminists aren't really promoting female athletes and it's not part of their agenda. Most of them are terribly out of shape and don't like sports.

Last edited by al89; 03-Oct-17 at 15:05.
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  #153  
Old 03-Oct-17, 15:13
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
i never said that genetics doesn t play any role.
Yawn. You are merely flip-flopping in a bid to always have an excuse.

Quote:
But countries having their record above the 10´60 are clearly underdevelopped in the field.


moreover the assertions: "100 m is just about raw athleticism", "the genetics evaporates in 60 years"
or " they have a stadium with a track on it, so they could train" are totally stupid.
Al can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he is trying to make the point that certain nations/ethnicities are absolutely 100% incapable of producing better athletes, but merely the athletes they have on record are, in many cases, inferior to some elite women. On a forum like this, many of us get a kick out of seeing that.

A lot of this is just sad rhetoric that has already been countered, such as Afghan athletes living and training abroad with great facilities and still getting whooped. It is not merely a case of inadequate training when non-elite men are bested by elite women; it is that the women in those cases, are superior.

Said Gilani, for example, the Afghan representative who lives and trains in Germany. He is inferior to Dafne Schippers. Training, or the conditions in his home country is not a valid excuse.

Now, I'm not saying that Afghanistan couldn't produce better athletes if circumstances were different, but for the purpose of this thread we're just looking at the best they have on record - and that's Gilani. Schippers is clearly the much more powerful and superior athlete by comparison. Just accept that for what it is. Coming back by citing more successful men every time is pathetic.

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  #154  
Old 03-Oct-17, 15:57
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Al can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he is trying to make the point that certain nations/ethnicities are absolutely 100% incapable of producing better athletes, but merely the athletes they have on record are, in many cases, inferior to some elite women. On a forum like this, many of us get a kick out of seeing that.
You're right. You never know what's going to happen in sports and that's precisely why the only thing that is important are the actual results.

I mean Prince Naseem Hameed was a "freak athlete" of the Yemeni ancestry and he was a good boxer. He did some amazing things in his prime, although he did get exposed at the very elite level when he faced the much more technical Mexican Marco Antonio Barrera and then retired shortly after that. But still, he is a boxing hall of famer and has a good legacy. He was basically the Conor McGregor of his time, bringing attention to the lower weight classes with his flamboyant and loud persona. He earned a lot of money too.

The thing is though that boxing is a sport where he was able to thrive because of the weightclasses and the whole "pound for pound" mindset. He was a very short and small man and that would always be a disadvantage in many sports. That's why we have to take into account the short average height of those men too.

However here's another thing that we have to consider here, if they can improve why can't the women also? Yelena Isinbayeva is clearly a level above many of those other national record holders, so there's an entirely another level to elite women sports as well. Keep in mind that her prime was in the 00s, she would be even better now. If a freak athlete can be born in those ethnicities then it's just as likely that another Yelena Isinbayeva appears.

Living conditions in Eastern Europe aren't great either so we could also use this same logic here that those women could do even better, that's why this whole thing is so pointless. As the society opens up more to women's sports who knows what the future brings. There's also this shameful purely political ban of Russian track and field athletes that is hurting the women athletes there.

There are just tons of variables that's why the results are the only thing that really counts.

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I also remember a thread where I praised some female race car drivers and he came stomping in telling us they wouldn't make it in Formula 1 which takes more skill and all F1 drivers are men. It clearly does hurt his pride to see occasions where men lose fair and square in sports and always feels the need to counter it by citing examples of men being more successful as if that mitigates the other men's defeat. It doesn't.
He is, of course, wrong again.

!There have been female racing drivers in the Formula One already!

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Even if those women didn't perform of the level of Fangio or Senna they were in F1 on merit and were one of the select few who were able to compete at the most prestigious level of racing!

Maria Teresa de Filippis raced in the 50s when the sport was incredibly dangerous.

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At the age of 22, de Filippis began her racing career. Two of her brothers told her that she would not be able to go very fast, goading her and making a bet that she would be slow. She won her first race, driving a Fiat 500 on a 10 km drive between Salerno and Cava de' Tirreni. She went on to drive in the Italian sports car championship, finishing second in the 1954 season. Seeing her potential, Maserati brought her in as the works driver.

Leila Lombardi drove in F1 for 3 seasons (1974-1976). She was also highly successful in the lower series and beat many men there. She was signed in F1 by merit.

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She scored points in F1 when she finished 6th in the Spanish GP of 1975!
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In 2010, the British female driver Susie Wolff (back then her last name was Stoddard) beat her Chinese teammate Congfu Cheng in the DTM series!

(Due to the nature of motorsports you can only really compare the performance of the driver by comparing him/her to his/her teammate)

She was also a test driver in the F1.

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The Chinese driver got defeated and outraced by this woman!

She dominated him.

Too bad those female drivers didn't compete against racers from some Arab countries where they don't even allow women to drive! Saudi Arabia only recently lifted the ban on women driving and this move was widely criticized in their country as clearly a lot of men there think that women aren't capable to drive cars and that they should continue to ban them from driving. Imagine how devastating it would be for them if their best driver was paired in the same team with a woman like Susie Wolff and she would consistently dominate him every weekend.

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  #155  
Old 03-Oct-17, 18:34
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yawn. You are merely flip-flopping in a bid to always have an excuse.



Al can correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe he is trying to make the point that certain nations/ethnicities are absolutely 100% incapable of producing better athletes, but merely the athletes they have on record are, in many cases, inferior to some elite women. On a forum like this, many of us get a kick out of seeing that.

A lot of this is just sad rhetoric that has already been countered, such as Afghan athletes living and training abroad with great facilities and still getting whooped. It is not merely a case of inadequate training when non-elite men are bested by elite women; it is that the women in those cases, are superior.

Said Gilani, for example, the Afghan representative who lives and trains in Germany. He is inferior to Dafne Schippers. Training, or the conditions in his home country is not a valid excuse.

Now, I'm not saying that Afghanistan couldn't produce better athletes if circumstances were different, but for the purpose of this thread we're just looking at the best they have on record - and that's Gilani. Schippers is clearly the much more powerful and superior athlete by comparison. Just accept that for what it is. Coming back by citing more successful men every time is pathetic.


About Gilani, until 18 years old, he didn t train in track and fields installations.
According to this article, He ran on an old soccer field alone, in a small village of 800 inhabitants with no track and fields club.
People there were thinking he was crazy to run alone on a soccer field.
Track and field was just one of his sports since he also practiced boxing.


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it is exactly the point. he compares contries where track and fields is very developped and some others where any guy performing correctly can make it to his national selection since there not much candidates...

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Originally Posted by al89 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
So now we've come to the point where women beaten by men in sports is devastating for women?

If anything, that's just another compliment to those female athletes if they set the bar for themselves so high. They made even people like you respect them and fear them. I bet you felt relief when you saw that Iran wasn't getting trashed by them as well.

Also, the average height of the Iranian men is 5'7'' (170cm) and they produced some combat sport heavyweight athletes so they're definitely not that small.

And those men STILL got crushed and humiliated by the Russian girl Yulia Efimova. You failed to answer this one, why was this "mere woman" able to do that to them?

Why couldn't your male heroes from Iran beat this young lady?





You are lying and manipulating again, I clearly never said those things. I said that 100m sprint is mostly about raw athleticism and that athleticism diminished in the last decades (and their results show that, they can't break their own records anymore).



You described them well! Their number of posts to being thanked ratio is horrible too. Normally I wouldn't care if their views are not popular but this forum is about fun contributions and not about arguing. So this tells me they're not really contributing anything but are more of a nuisance here. On the other hand, people who like this thread are mostly established members who have contributed a lot.

A lot of men are bothered by the entire existence of female sport. They simply can't handle the fact that you now have women who train hard while many men are out of shape. They know that those women would outperform them in physical activities and it makes them uncomfortable, that's why they go in full damage control when talking about women sports. They essentially want to create this image that men are so naturally superior in sports that even the best women are way inferior and their events are just some side show.

Some of these men might not be against women in sports as such but want to have that illusion of "I would quickly become better than them if I only started to train" because for them "men are so naturally superior to women in sports it's not even close". For some men here women beating men is just a fantasy and they get very uncomfortable when things become too real.

What they do really discourages women to take part in sports! They're basically telling them that even if they perform at their best they're still going to be way inferior to men. It's very hurtful and insulting.

But the reality turns out to be different! This thread shows that the differences aren't that big and that there are entire countries of men who can't beat top records of women from other countries in sports where we can objectively compare their performances.

I think the reason why the defeat of the Yemenis and the Afghanis bothers the likes of garcon in particular is because he probably has similar views about women as those two societies. From what he displayed so far, he is very disrespectful to women and he's gloating about their defeats. In turn, he NEVER gives any credit or compliment to women beating male records. We gave our compliments and credit to those U15 boys but he didn't have a single positive word about women in this thread.

It's also hilarious when butthurt men compare supporting female athletes to feminism. Feminists want equality and complain about things. Female athletes are the exact opposite, they want to be superior (because that's what sports are about, it's the ultimate anti-equality thing), work hard and don't complain. They are very competitive and can be an inspiration to men too. I can't see why anyone would want to downplay their achievements other than out of frustration. The whole "I'm against feminist propaganda" excuse doesn't fly here because feminists aren't really promoting female athletes and it's not part of their agenda. Most of them are terribly out of shape and don't like sports.


No only the total domination of the iranian guys is devastating!!
can you imagine these american professional athletes, trained scientifically being destroyed this way by a bunch of middle east weak guys??

23-5 is quite a devastating defeat for these professional female athletes!!

greatings to these amateur small persian men!!

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  #156  
Old 03-Oct-17, 18:50
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
According to this article, He ran on an old soccer field alone, in a small village of 800 inhabitants with no track and fields club.
People there were thinking he was crazy to run alone on a soccer field.
Track and field was just one of his sports since he also practiced boxing.

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If you compare him to top female athletes he gets his ass whooped. His times are nowhere near them, he would lose by a wide margin.

He has been training in Germany for years now, why didn't his male testosterone help him?

The truth is, he had everything he needed to train sprinting (which isn't exactly a science) and his times are waaay slower than the times of top females.

As for conditions, do you honestly think that if Usain Bolt came through exactly the same conditions as this guy that his performance would be similarly bad too? If not, then you simply have to agree that it's about the right athletic predispositions and genetics.

When it comes to training other sports I already posted the story about the African-American girl Wilma Rudolph who was training basketball first and started track and field very late... Yet she still won gold and beat the times of some men olympic sprinters (including an Afghani) at those particular olympic games.

Quote:
No only the total domination of the iranian guys is devastating!!
can you imagine these american professional athletes, trained scientifically being destroyed this way by a bunch of middle east weak guys??

23-5 is quite a devastating defeat for these professional female athletes!!

greatings to these amateur small persian men!!
They're arent amateurs, they're an athletically good nation with a lot of success in sports. They also aren't that small either, their average height is 5'7''. No one gave women much chance to beat their records, including me. That's why I didn't even really try to compare them.

The only one who thinks this is devastating for women is you. If those men competed side by side with women and won 23-5, the people wouldn't pay that much attention to men winning, they would pay attention to women beating them 5 times because that would be more impressive!

You're posting pictures of non-athletes, this is how actual Iranian athletes look like:





And both of those guys had their times beaten by...

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  #157  
Old 03-Oct-17, 19:05
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by al89 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
If you compare him to top female athletes he gets his ass whooped. His times are nowhere near them, he would lose by a wide margin.

He has been training in Germany for years now, why didn't his male testosterone help him?

The truth is, he had everything he needed to train sprinting (which isn't exactly a science) and his times are waaay slower than the times of top females.

As for conditions, do you honestly think that if Usain Bolt came through exactly the same conditions as this guy that his performance would be similarly bad too? If not, then you simply have to agree that it's about the right athletic predispositions and genetics.

When it comes to training other sports I already posted the story about the African-American girl Wilma Rudolph who was training basketball first and started track and field very late... Yet she still won gold and beat the times of some men olympic sprinters (including an Afghani) at those particular olympic games.



They're arent amateurs, they're an athletically good nation with a lot of success in sports. They also aren't that small either, their average height is 5'7''. No one gave women much chance to beat their records, including me. That's why I didn't even really try to compare them.

The only one who thinks this is devastating for women is you. If those men competed side by side with women and won 23-5, the people wouldn't pay that much attention to men winning, they would pay attention to women beating them 5 times because that would be more impressive!

You're posting pictures of non-athletes, this is how actual Iranian athletes look like:





And both of those guys had their times beaten by...


that is actually how she looked as she got booed in RIO because of her "slight" tendancy for doping


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" Yulia Efimova, a doping cheat who has previously served 16 months for doping and has also tested positive for meldonium this year. "



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  #158  
Old 03-Oct-17, 19:27
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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that is actually how she looked as she got booed in RIO because of her "slight" tendancy for doping


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" Yulia Efimova, a doping cheat who has previously served 16 months for doping and has also tested positive for meldonium this year. "



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First of all, I give absolutely no legitimacy to these corrupt anti-doping organizations so I don't care what they "found". Meldonium was only recently banned by them and it was a highly political decisions trying to catch as many Russian athletes as possible because they hoped the traces would remain in their bodies. Every athlete uses something so I couldn't care less if she did use anything anyway, her American rivals are clearly doping if you ask me.

She claimed she had stopped taking meldonium before it was outlawed but the drug was still in her system, and she was allowed to compete after the Internationl Swimming Federation lifted the ban after advice from the World Anti-Doping Agency, which is further researching the drug.

Here is her side of the story:
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She said it like it is: "All athletes should be above politics, but they just watch TV and believe everything they read. I always thought the cold war was long in the past. Why start it again, by using sport?"

She cried because she was just very emotional after people (idiots in the crowd) booed her. Also, she admitted that she has no friends in the sport and other swimmers were very hostile to her. She was just in a very hard spot with basically everyone against her and wanting to see her fail.

If you think that makes her mentally weak you're wrong because she overcame adversity! Even after these horrible events she came back stronger than ever and won gold at the 2017 World Aquatics Championships with a time that is much better than the Iranian male record!
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  #159  
Old 03-Oct-17, 19:41
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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First of all, I give absolutely no legitimacy to these corrupt anti-doping organizations so I don't care what they "found". Meldonium was only recently banned by them and it was a highly political decisions trying to catch as many Russian athletes as possible because they hoped the traces would remain in their bodies. Every athlete uses something so I couldn't care less if she did use anything anyway, her American rivals are clearly doping if you ask me.

She claimed she had stopped taking meldonium before it was outlawed but the drug was still in her system, and she was allowed to compete after the Internationl Swimming Federation lifted the ban after advice from the World Anti-Doping Agency, which is further researching the drug.

Here is her side of the story:
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She said it like it is: "All athletes should be above politics, but they just watch TV and believe everything they read. I always thought the cold war was long in the past. Why start it again, by using sport?"

She cried because she was just very emotional after people (idiots in the crowd) booed her. Also, she admitted that she has no friends in the sport and other swimmers were very hostile to her. She was just in a very hard spot with basically everyone against her and wanting to see her fail.

If you think that makes her mentally weak you're wrong because she overcame adversity! Even after these horrible events she came back stronger than ever and won gold at the 2017 World Aquatics Championships with a time that is much better than the Iranian male record!

That is your problem man: you don t care about anything
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Old 05-Oct-17, 02:25
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

al89, can you please summarize what the intent of this thread was? Because I thought you were exploring the plot of a Bond movie and trying to find out if women from developed countries could dominate men in developing countries. This has been conclusively proven.

But somehow this has drifted into seriously uncomfortable race superiority theories where you keep attacking the "feeble tiny men" of Yemen, Afghanistan and Nepal by pitting them against "not quite Aryan but still A- white Stock" Slavic women.

Are you engaging in a women can beat men masturbation fantasy (which I fully approve and support) or are you engaging in a white people are so superior that even their women beat brown people masturbation fantasy? Because I certainly hope it's the former.
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asian women, eastern men, female superiority, strength, white women

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