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  #11  
Old 16-May-18, 04:46
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

Wow - a politicalish discussion here. First one I've seen. I know a lot of people who are up in arms about net neutrality. To be honest, I don't understand it. I've not taken the time to read the fine print and see how it affects this or that.

US congress is hands down on the right, however, and they will vote for business. I don't think writing them will do a speck of good. US is Gerrymandered in favor of the right and they get their way right now with almost everything. Only a few very small victories for the left (like the Right couldn't get rid of Obamacare - too many objections and a few senators wouldn't fall in line), but it's basically all going as the right want it to. Not always pretty, and a few federal judges in the way, but nearly all going with the right.

Zweig, I'm usually for writing our congressmen, but the US system is hijacked. It won't do a speck of good. It used to, years ago. Not now.
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  #12  
Old 16-May-18, 05:05
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

Quote:
Originally Posted by LicensetoKill [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
US congress is hands down on the right, however, and they will vote for business. I don't think writing them will do a speck of good. US is Gerrymandered in favor of the right and they get their way right now with almost everything.
Another canard I see all the time. Go look at the district map for the state of Maryland, just like all the others it's drawn up by the state house which is elected, same for the Congress in DC (didn't used to be entirely the case as far as the Senate but that's a totally different argument). Having national referendums on everything would make for an interesting country, but that ain't America.
For those interested, [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] of where national office corporate campaign money goes in the US.
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  #13  
Old 16-May-18, 05:56
Sirius Sirius is offline
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

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Originally Posted by boyofwinter [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Ah yes, it totally makes sense for broadband providers to make the internet that they are trying to sell you a lousy experience to use, given the cord-cutting trend. This fortress of logic is impregnable.
Except when there is no alternative. That's what the internet is to cable, an alternative. Many areas of the U.S. don't have an alternative provider.

Which one do you work for?
  #14  
Old 16-May-18, 06:30
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

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Originally Posted by boyofwinter [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Another canard I see all the time. Go look at the district map for the state of Maryland, just like all the others it's drawn up by the state house which is elected, same for the Congress in DC (didn't used to be entirely the case as far as the Senate but that's a totally different argument). Having national referendums on everything would make for an interesting country, but that ain't America.
For those interested, [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] of where national office corporate campaign money goes in the US.
In 2010 the republican won enough seats to redraw enough maps to make congress virtually unwinnable for the other party. The courts even forced Pennsylvania to redraw their maps because they were too bogus.

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The courts, the constitution and the law, agree with me, and disagree with you. It's just hard to undo what's already been stolen.

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Except when there is no alternative. That's what the internet is to cable, an alternative. Many areas of the U.S. don't have an alternative provider.

Which one do you work for?
Based on his reply to me - which had nothing to do with net neutrality, I'm guessing he's just one of those conservative is always right types. The funny thing, on Net Neutrality repeal, is that among voters, both democrat and republican voters are 80% against it. The people in both parties want the net to stay neutral. What congress does however, I think they'll side with big business.

I'm personally less worried about net neutrality repeal than many people I know. If Netflix wants to pay for fast-lanes - who does that hurt? Now if they start selecting sites to block, then I'd protest, but if it's just about providing faster streaming to sites that pay, that doesn't bother me. Personally, if sites that broadcast illegal stuff like video sharing get shut down or slowed down, I'd be OK with that too.
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  #15  
Old 16-May-18, 12:37
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

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Originally Posted by Sirius [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Except when there is no alternative. That's what the internet is to cable, an alternative. Many areas of the U.S. don't have an alternative provider.

Which one do you work for?
See, maybe this is why I find this issue interesting, the sheer tonnage of misinformation and hyperbolic arguments. There are very few areas of the US where consumers do not have a choice of internet provider and nn is an exceptionally poor mechanism for dealing with such cases for reasons I've mentioned above. Also how quickly anyone who raises objections to the dubious premises involved is labeled as being 'bought off' or other such nonsense.

Added after 6 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LicensetoKill [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
In 2010 the republican won enough seats to redraw enough maps to make congress virtually unwinnable for the other party. The courts even forced Pennsylvania to redraw their maps because they were too bogus.
The problem for the other party isn't the maps, it's demographic clustering. Dave Wasserman at Cook Political has written a lot about this and I'm more than happy to defer to him on it. And citing that decision - derided even by legal writers to the left as being a groundless and dangerous usurpation by that court - might not be the best plank for reenforcing your argument. Having nn be voted on by the Senate rather than imposed by the FCC directly is a good step though.

Added after 5 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by LicensetoKill [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Based on his reply to me - which had nothing to do with net neutrality, I'm guessing he's just one of those conservative is always right types.
You mean the 4 above posts in the thread? I'd say there's quite a bit of commentary on the nn issue up there, no reason to repeat myself.

Last edited by boyofwinter; 16-May-18 at 12:37.
  #16  
Old 16-May-18, 14:41
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyofwinter [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
See, maybe this is why I find this issue interesting, the sheer tonnage of misinformation and hyperbolic arguments. There are very few areas of the US where consumers do not have a choice of internet provider and nn is an exceptionally poor mechanism for dealing with such cases for reasons I've mentioned above. Also how quickly anyone who raises objections to the dubious premises involved is labeled as being 'bought off' or other such nonsense.
The vast majority of Americans from both parties want net Neutrality.. You've not made a compelling argument why they are wrong.

Do you work for a company that will get rich if Net neutrality is undone (remains undone I suppose is more accurate)? It's a fair question.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boyofwinter [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]


The problem for the other party isn't the maps, it's demographic clustering. Dave Wasserman at Cook Political has written a lot about this and I'm more than happy to defer to him on it. And citing that decision - derided even by legal writers to the left as being a groundless and dangerous usurpation by that court - might not be the best plank for reenforcing your argument. Having nn be voted on by the Senate rather than imposed by the FCC directly is a good step though.

The courts, which define the clarify the law on legal challenges, which this is, disagree with you and Mr. Wasserman.

One person one vote what the constitution is based on. Pennsylvania is being forced to redraw their districts because they were set up unfairly. Clustering, when the district looks like Donald Duck riding Goofy - something that was done all over the nation, is unconstitutional.

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Quote:
You mean the 4 above posts in the thread? I'd say there's quite a bit of commentary on the nn issue up there, no reason to repeat myself.
I'm still curious why you're for it. I'm also curious how the vote will go. It seems pretty clear that it's a partisan issue in congress, even though voters in both parties are against it.

I'm open to the argument as to why it's good.
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  #17  
Old 16-May-18, 15:47
boyofwinter boyofwinter is online now
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

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Originally Posted by LicensetoKill [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The vast majority of Americans from both parties want net Neutrality.. You've not made a compelling argument why they are wrong.

Do you work for a company that will get rich if Net neutrality is undone (remains undone I suppose is more accurate)? It's a fair question.
It's not a fair question, it's ad hominem nonsense. I do not in any case.
As for public support, most Americans support something called net neutrality. When that's broken down to policy specifics for them however, as happens with many issues once buzz words are done away with, that polling changes drastically.
  #18  
Old 16-May-18, 16:17
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

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Originally Posted by LicensetoKill [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

I'm personally less worried about net neutrality repeal than many people I know. If Netflix wants to pay for fast-lanes - who does that hurt? Now if they start selecting sites to block, then I'd protest, but if it's just about providing faster streaming to sites that pay, that doesn't bother me. Personally, if sites that broadcast illegal stuff like video sharing get shut down or slowed down, I'd be OK with that too.
The issue is two-fold. Netflix may pay for fast lanes, but they aren't likely to shoulder that cost themselves, it would be passed to consumers. Then, as you mentioned, blocking of stuff.
  #19  
Old 16-May-18, 16:17
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

To be honest, I never realized that this could be a politically divisive topic. I mean, who chooses to trust their Internet to be censored / filtered / adjusted by entities such as AT&T, Verizon and Comcast? And why? Of course Google, FaceBook and other big websites are for net neutrality, and we should be cautious of taking the side of big corporations. But this is a battle between two types of big corporations. And in this instance the interests of the end-users correspond to the interests of big websites, rather than of communications companies.

Backpage shutdown has nothing to do with this subject. Unless repealing net neutrality would somehow save Backpage, I don't see how this example is viable.

As to the claim that things were perfect before net neutrality, they were not: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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  #20  
Old 16-May-18, 16:18
Sirius Sirius is offline
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Default Re: Help Save Net Neturality!

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyofwinter [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It's not a fair question, it's ad hominem nonsense. I do not in any case.
As for public support, most Americans support something called net neutrality. When that's broken down to policy specifics for them however, as happens with many issues once buzz words are done away with, that polling changes drastically.
Why does the tech industry overwhelmingly support it then? The only part of the tech industry that doesn't is corrupt telecoms.
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