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  #11  
Old 02-Feb-13, 19:42
mixedwrestler08 mixedwrestler08 is offline
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

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Originally Posted by dj200 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
i think garcon55's graphs are unfortunately very telling - women caught up rapidly but that progress has flattened out sharply. i dont think they will catch men in athletic pursuits, the data is pretty clear and much more convincing than isolated incidents, even when those can be presented without bias in either direction (which seems pretty hard lol )
thats sounds reasonable. there are maybe some sports discipins where the gap between mem and women will getting smaller in the future. in others the grapghs above are telling the story.
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  #12  
Old 02-Feb-13, 19:55
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

It's only a guess, but I think within 50 years the women may have caught up in all, or almost all, areas.
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  #13  
Old 02-Feb-13, 19:56
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

And we will have mostly coed events in the Olympics, instead of separate male and female divisions
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  #14  
Old 03-Feb-13, 09:09
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

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And we will have mostly coed events in the Olympics, instead of separate male and female divisions
some people just don't care about facts...
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  #15  
Old 05-Feb-13, 13:58
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

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And we will have mostly coed events in the Olympics, instead of separate male and female divisions
That would be cool but we're in the sci-fi fields I'd say
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  #16  
Old 05-Feb-13, 15:30
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

Just examined the graphs by Garcon55, it seems the times have plateaued out since 1990's. Anything to do with more stringent anti dope measures being adopted, which I believe would affect female athletes more.

I think studying those results it looks like both sexes have plateaued and what can happen in say fifty years is anybodies guess as it is too long term to predict, but looking at the present historical result it looks unlikely.

On an average a male is larger then a female so if we take away the size advantage and look into sports where weight categories are assigned then how will the women perform against men. The men will still produce almost 25-30 times more testosterone then the women and will have more muscle mass. But again as I said if you look at the results of the last olympics the top women always places within top 15 males in a sports which is relatively new for women. I believe top female athlete from China (weightlifting powerhouse) will probably medal in Spanish (randomly selected from a list of countries without weightlifting medals in the Olympics) national championship. Is there a chance that in sports with weight categories women may be able to move to say upto top 5 in the world on the long run.

Here is a study which already shows a women boxer hitting as hard as men

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P.S. Women boxing currently cannot be compared to male boxing, but with inclusion in olympics the base and quality will increase to what extent is the million dollar question ?
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  #17  
Old 05-Feb-13, 15:52
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

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Originally Posted by sheehan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Just examined the graphs by Garcon55, it seems the times have plateaued out since 1990's. Anything to do with more stringent anti dope measures being adopted, which I believe would affect female athletes more.

I think studying those results it looks like both sexes have plateaued and what can happen in say fifty years is anybodies guess as it is too long term to predict, but looking at the present historical result it looks unlikely.

On an average a male is larger then a female so if we take away the size advantage and look into sports where weight categories are assigned then how will the women perform against men. The men will still produce almost 25-30 times more testosterone then the women and will have more muscle mass. But again as I said if you look at the results of the last olympics the top women always places within top 15 males in a sports which is relatively new for women. I believe top female athlete from China (weightlifting powerhouse) will probably medal in Spanish (randomly selected from a list of countries without weightlifting medals in the Olympics) national championship. Is there a chance that in sports with weight categories women may be able to move to say upto top 5 in the world on the long run.

Here is a study which already shows a women boxer hitting as hard as men

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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P.S. Women boxing currently cannot be compared to male boxing, but with inclusion in olympics the base and quality will increase to what extent is the million dollar question ?

this is true for swimming where women and men follow the same curve for around 40/50 years. This comes from the fact that trainers discovered that women can train as hard as men. since then they just follow the curve of medical and technical innovations, as men do.
for running sports men still progress whereas women are saturating, and this since 20 years, 30 years for 1500m.
if you take into account last results of Bolt, the increase of male performances in 100m defies all the models.

I would be very careful with strength sports. The eight best performances in history in Shot put or javeline are dating form the eighties, and belong to women living in eastern countries, who were known for massively using testosterone injections. Since the fall of sovietic empire, no women was able to reproduce such records.
i guess it is the same in weightlifting. but again, i highlight that the best 56kg man still lifts more than the best 68 kg woman. This shows the gap between male top 5 and the female top 5 is enormous. indeed men can also be doped with testosterone...

PS: i d be careful with these crap large audiences tv shows. they have zero scientific value.
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  #18  
Old 05-Feb-13, 17:45
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

I would not compare the shot put and Javelin results as the men and women throw balls and spears of different weight, dimension and length. As per as the drug abuse as the IOC has not abolished these records I would accept them as these records are in all sports across the spectrum. Personally I believe drug cheats were there earlier and will be there in the future too its just about countries having programmes innovative enough to beat the testing. (See how Armstrong thrived)

And I am not talking about just strength sports, I am talking about sports where they segregate by bodyweight, I am saying this cause the average male enjoys the size advantage over the average female. So in case of segregation by body weight the size advantage is reduced. The inherent male advantages are still there as I already mentioned on the last post but the question is will women be able to match up in the long run.
See in weightlifting which is a relatively new sports for women (Only inducted in 2000 olympics) women will still place for e.g. The 58 kg Champion will be 12th place in mens 56 kg competition (U have to compare them weight class to weight class) and it is almost same in all weight classes (near by weight classes as they are not same for both genders) where women will place above some men and will be between 11th to 15th.

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This result actually surprised me. The top women definitely will not medal but in new sports if the women have come such a long way is it conceivable to think that they might be able to progress more in the future.

What about in sports like wrestling, Judo or boxing. In boxing there is no comparison irrespective of what the show depicts but it is still very new and we have to see how things progress. In wrestling or Judo the top women cant compete with the top men now. But can defeat lesser competitors which was unthinkable thirty years back.

Here is some photo's of a commonwealth medallist female wrestler defeating a lesser male opponent

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You will find videos of Stanka Zlateva (My favourite ) doing the same too much bigger men. So when size is not a factor does the traditional male advantage hold over a long time period or will erode, that is the question for this sports. There are some other sports which I would like to discuss later.
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  #19  
Old 05-Feb-13, 18:08
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

I said my predictions were only a guess. Who know what will happen in 50 years? But it does seem to me possible that females will close the gap, at least to an extent.
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  #20  
Old 05-Feb-13, 18:55
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Women have come a long way in sports but will they ever catch up ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheehan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I would not compare the shot put and Javelin results as the men and women throw balls and spears of different weight, dimension and length. As per as the drug abuse as the IOC has not abolished these records I would accept them as these records are in all sports across the spectrum. Personally I believe drug cheats were there earlier and will be there in the future too its just about countries having programmes innovative enough to beat the testing. (See how Armstrong thrived)

And I am not talking about just strength sports, I am talking about sports where they segregate by bodyweight, I am saying this cause the average male enjoys the size advantage over the average female. So in case of segregation by body weight the size advantage is reduced. The inherent male advantages are still there as I already mentioned on the last post but the question is will women be able to match up in the long run.
See in weightlifting which is a relatively new sports for women (Only inducted in 2000 olympics) women will still place for e.g. The 58 kg Champion will be 12th place in mens 56 kg competition (U have to compare them weight class to weight class) and it is almost same in all weight classes (near by weight classes as they are not same for both genders) where women will place above some men and will be between 11th to 15th.

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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This result actually surprised me. The top women definitely will not medal but in new sports if the women have come such a long way is it conceivable to think that they might be able to progress more in the future.

What about in sports like wrestling, Judo or boxing. In boxing there is no comparison irrespective of what the show depicts but it is still very new and we have to see how things progress. In wrestling or Judo the top women cant compete with the top men now. But can defeat lesser competitors which was unthinkable thirty years back.

Here is some photo's of a commonwealth medallist female wrestler defeating a lesser male opponent

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

You will find videos of Stanka Zlateva (My favourite ) doing the same too much bigger men. So when size is not a factor does the traditional male advantage hold over a long time period or will erode, that is the question for this sports. There are some other sports which I would like to discuss later.


ok, i think we speak different language.
you take particular examples, in situations where, the level of the man is unknown and often where women are champions or in the top 3 of their sports, for some non official events and sometimes some fake events and say "you see women are catching up"

i can do exactly the same.
i can take the example of this actor which trained during 3 months in boxing and resisted to the 7 times female world champion along 6 rounds. a match which of course would have lasted a few seconds against the male world champion...

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i can take this example of a 15 years old team defeating us U20 women soccer team from the same club

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i can take the example of this high school local boy team defeating female olympic US Hockey team.

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the examples of boys defeating very high level women are extremely frequent. i could continue like this for some pages

then i could conclude "no, women canīt catch up"

But this is proof of nothing!!!

you bring some doubtful events (which often never existed as you did with judo or soccer) as proves of progress.
this is completely not scientific. Even if you events are true (i demonstrated most of them were not) It is like taking a cold summer in a precise place and conclude that global warming is not true.

i tried to bring you some graphs showing some real, long term tendancies, with a lot of statistics, showing that women are not catching up, which is logical as they now train like men.
but even worst for you, men still progress in running sports whereas women saturate since 20 years!!!


but for you this is not a proof!!!
and to answer that you go back to your small examples, of very weak value.

you still take the example of the best woman who could finnish 13rd or 12th in the men competition.
Does it mean women are catching up??


what about women performances in this field also strongly saturating?

in 58 kg category

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and Decreasing in 48 kg category:

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of course i can t have such graphs for collective or contact sports, as we can not compare female and male competitions. The only thing i can do is showing you that 16 years old boys are consistently outclassing top level women.

But you just donīt care, because you have a postulate and just refuse any objective argument which is demonstrating the opposite...
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