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View Poll Results: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade
Jedrzejczyk by KO / TKO 4 25.00%
Jedrzejczyk by submission 1 6.25%
Jedrzejczyk by decision 7 43.75%
Andrade by KO / TKO 2 12.50%
Andrade by submission 2 12.50%
Andrade by decision 0 0%
Draw 0 0%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 14-May-17, 03:46
gemini3d gemini3d is offline
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

JJ wins, I think in 4th, with a choke.
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  #12  
Old 14-May-17, 09:01
Ricoswrap Ricoswrap is offline
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

Wow!! JJ looked unstoppable. May have been her best performance yet. Rose Namajunas is up next. I'm a huge fan of hers but she has no chance if JJ performs anything close to that.
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  #13  
Old 14-May-17, 09:40
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by al89 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I always like the Pride format with 10 minute first round and 5 minute second round more. Then they scored the fights as a whole.

It's more like a "real fight", fighters can work grappling set ups more. Then if there isn't a finish in the first round we get to see who has more heart in the 2nd round and who comes out to win it.

5 5 minute rounds make it look more like some crappy version of boxing and scoring 3 5 minute rounds with a boxing system makes a lot of decisions look weird. If someone scratches the first two rounds the best his opponent can hope for is a draw even if he completely destroys him in the 3rd round and almost finishes him.

Obviously copying boxings 10/12 3 minute round system wouldn't work either because it would limit grappling and it would make the cards last forever.
Completely agree. I was having a discussion a while ago about whether Pride rules benefited strikers and BJJ players and whether the unified (American) rules were geared towards fighters (mostly American) that come from a wrestling base.

I don't think either is necessarily true. The only thing that stands out is that Pride rules provided a better platform to show more dynamic, exciting and fair MMA fights.

Where a wrestler might lose out by not allowing elbows to the head, they could gain by being able to wear wrestling shoes (at the expense of not being able to kick/stomp). The rules were pliable like that and made for a better fight. Elbows tend to just cause cuts/swellings that can prematurely end fights (ie Edgar/Rodriguez last night) and inhibit a BJJ player from working his jits from the bottom. If you didn't have good jits/grappling, locking up the guy on top in the hope of a stand up would also get a yellow card.

Unified rules have too many loopholes that not only cause ill-feeling and controversy but also produce many dud fights where nothing much happens.

Added after 11 minutes:

Yes, great performance by Joanna. Didn't expect it to be that easy myself after seeing the Hill/Andrade match up as Hill is a decent Kickboxer in her own right. I also expected Andrade's physicality and BJJ to be bigger factors than they were.

A classic showcasing of how to move, hit and not get hit in addition to the best take down defense and recovery in WMMA.

This fight bodes very well for Joanna being able to move up in weight and compete at Flyweight and even Bantamweight.

Also, should Joanna be recognised as the GOAT?

Last edited by jiminy; 14-May-17 at 09:40.
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  #14  
Old 14-May-17, 18:59
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

Frank Pozen analysis:

This fight went pretty much as I thought. Jessica is tough. She has skills. But Joanna is just on a much higher level right now. Going through an entire training camp at American Top Team and moving in with Perfecting Athletes and having them run her life while training really agreed with her. The big thing was Joanna used her height and reach advantage to maximum effect. Jessica is very aggressive and I thought she might have a chance to swarm Joanna early in the fight. Jessica got a couple of takedowns but they went nowhere and Joanna made her pay. And once that strategy went out the window, Jessica had nothing for her. She had Plan A but no backup plan if that didn't work. Joanna's plan was to keep her distance. She knows Jessica only knows to to go forward. And when she did that, Joanna hammered her with combinations and leg kicks. For the most part, Jessica couldn't get close enough to do much damage. By round three, Jessica was worn out. The only thing Joanna didn't do was finish her. But a lot of those shots would have finished other fighters. Jessica made it through five rounds but it turned out to be an easy win for Joanna. This is Joanna's fifth title defense. She not only throws punches in volume but her striking is accurate. Apparently she broke her own record for volume of strikes. And the other thing is Joanna is built to go five rounds. No fighter in that division will outlast her. And her defense is hard to penetrate. Something might get through occasionally but it's not likely to be enough. Of course as champ, Joanna has a target on her back. Claudia Gadelha and Karolina Kowalkiewicz both want another shot. They will fight in a couple of weeks. I think Rose Namajunas will be the next challenger. She was shown on camera last night with a scowl on her face. That was pretty funny. Of course Rose thinks she can beat Joanna. She should think that. It just seems unlikely that anyone can beat Joanna right now. One fighter to watch is Cynthia Calvillo who has already won twice in the UFC and will face Joanne Calderwood in July. The UFC obviously sees a lot in her and she could face the Claudia vs Karolina winner. I also still like MIZUKI who is currently recovering from knee surgery. She showed a lot of maturity and improved technique in her last couple of Invicta fights. When she returns, she could be UFC bound after one Invicta fight. And another fighter to watch is BJJ ace Mackenzie Dern. She currently fights for LFA but she will be in the UFC soon. The only question about her is weight class as she has had trouble making 115. There's also talk that Joanna wants to fight at Flyweight. Based on her interviews, I don't expect her to try that until late next year. I think Joanna will fight at 125 but not immediately. Her plan is to be a two division champ. Oh and Joanna is now managed by the company that manages Conor McGregor. What a coincidence.
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  #15  
Old 14-May-17, 21:36
Rated G Rated G is offline
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Also, should Joanna be recognized as the GOAT!
Now that she's more accomplished at takedown defense, yes. It's the one card that Claudia had over her. Joanna's only weakness now is that she's not a power striker nor a particularly adept finisher, but at 115 that doesn't matter. It might not even matter at 125, but it's something Valentina could exploit.

Because of her phenomenal striking defense, she's better than Ronda.
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  #16  
Old 14-May-17, 22:26
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

I don't think she has good takedown defense, Andrade took her down several times, but Joanna managed to scramble up, partly because of her size advantage. Claudia Gadelha was taking her down almost at will before she gassed.

Also, her striking looked so good because her opponent didn't make any adjustments and just continued to walk forward in straight lines with looping shots and no set ups. Obviously Joanna with her reach advantage and in the huge octagon is going to be able to stick and move against an opponent like that, it's not really some special showcase of skills. Props to her for making adjustments after Andrade cracked her with some good shots in the first round and decided to move more and avoid brawling, but it's not like we saw some Mayweatheresque performance.

Andrade should have learned how to cut off her opponent and set up her entries behind her jab and use feints and also the threat of takedown. Instead she just charged forward with looping lead hooks.

In boxing and MMA you can easily look great against certain opponents. Also, Joanna seems to be pillow fisted, she couldn't put her opponent out of there despite landing so many flush shots or maybe she's just holding back to not break her arms again and prefers volume striking and pointfighting now (in that case smart from her).

I think Valentina Shevchenko presents a way better and way more well rounded skillset and routinely fights against bigger opponents, so I would comfortably put her above Joanna P4P when it comes to skills. Also, Valentina already beat Joanna several times in Muay Thai and would beat her even more easily in MMA if they ever fight at 125 lbs.
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  #17  
Old 15-May-17, 01:38
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

Quote:
Originally Posted by al89 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I don't think she has good takedown defense, Andrade took her down several times, but Joanna managed to scramble up, partly because of her size advantage. Claudia Gadelha was taking her down almost at will before she gassed.

Also, her striking looked so good because her opponent didn't make any adjustments and just continued to walk forward in straight lines with looping shots and no set ups. Obviously Joanna with her reach advantage and in the huge octagon is going to be able to stick and move against an opponent like that, it's not really some special showcase of skills. Props to her for making adjustments after Andrade cracked her with some good shots in the first round and decided to move more and avoid brawling, but it's not like we saw some Mayweatheresque performance.

Andrade should have learned how to cut off her opponent and set up her entries behind her jab and use feints and also the threat of takedown. Instead she just charged forward with looping lead hooks.

In boxing and MMA you can easily look great against certain opponents. Also, Joanna seems to be pillow fisted, she couldn't put her opponent out of there despite landing so many flush shots or maybe she's just holding back to not break her arms again and prefers volume striking and pointfighting now (in that case smart from her).

I think Valentina Shevchenko presents a way better and way more well rounded skillset and routinely fights against bigger opponents, so I would comfortably put her above Joanna P4P when it comes to skills. Also, Valentina already beat Joanna several times in Muay Thai and would beat her even more easily in MMA if they ever fight at 125 lbs.
It's all relative to the competition. Who has better TDD? Gadelha and Esparza are 2 of the best grapplers in the division and no one has been able to stuff/recover from their takedowns the way Joanna did. Gadelha wore herself out working for takedowns and not being able to do anything with them. Joanna tended to just work her way back up without ever really being put in trouble and retains complete control of the fight. She demoralizes grapplers and lesser fighters in a way I have not seen another female striker consistently do at top level.

With Andrade, her style had been working until this fight. She thought she could take one to give one and land the more meaningful shots or bully Joanna down and sub her. She looked good at cutting off the cage vs. Penne and Hill and bullied Calderwood down and subbed her. But against Joanna she was simply made to look crap by someone so much better. By the time Andrade had stepped forward, eaten a jab and leg kick, planted her feet, Joanna just wasn't there anymore. The speed difference and level of striking and movement was immense. How good Andrade had looked since dropping to 115 can only highlight how great Joanna is.

As for the 135 division, they've all beaten each other and no one has the streak that Joanna has.

Valentina is only 3-1 in the UFC and 2 of those fights (Kaufman & Holm) were favourable match ups for her. Blow for blow she was behind in the Pena fight too. She has great skill and potential but only time will tell if she can get to the top let alone stay there as long as Joanna has. Muay Thai and MMA are completely different sports. Many great Kickboxers just don't transition well when they try MMA. Jorinna Baars for example. GdR has been disappointing too, by the standard she set as a Kickboxer. Movement in a cage vs. ring makes a big difference and the black art of TDD. Personally I think Joanna has transitioned better than Valentina but hopefully they do fight again in MMA.
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  #18  
Old 15-May-17, 03:58
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

Yeah, it looked the the fight settled down to Jessica chasing Joanna around the cage, throwing haymakers that missed by miles that expended enormous energy. As was pointed out, Jessica needed to make it a brawl, and her best chance was early.
Claudia claimed she was overtrained for their fight last year, and she said it's hard training in Brazil, there are too many distractions, without being specific. Apparently that's the Brazillian way, and was the reason she decided to try to learn from other camps, like Jackson/Wink. Brazillian Amanda Nunes said she had overtrained her whole career too. But I still don't see Claudia beating JJ, who is still improving, and at a higher rate than others in the division. Yes, I think Joanna may be the GOAT, if not now, very soon.
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  #19  
Old 15-May-17, 18:06
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

The 115s generally bore me to tears, but even though Joanna dominated from the 2nd round onward, this was a pretty intriguing fight. Andrade was seriously stunned by a head kick and then got rocked by a straight right later. And despite eating shot after shot, she kept coming. She entered with no chance to win a striking contest with Joanna, but what she showed is that she can take a punch - lots of them - and recover on her feet. As her overall game develops, that characteristic alone is going to keep her from being knocked out on her feet.

I don't see any problem with the 5x 5-minute format for championship fights, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. However, if you're trying to win a belt, you should be prepared for a war, not a battle.
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Last edited by KillerCrushes; 15-May-17 at 23:48.
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  #20  
Old 15-May-17, 22:59
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Maitsek Maitsek is offline
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Default Re: Joanna Jedrzejczyk vs Jessica Andrade

I am also not overly impressed by Joanna's fights but her confidence and consistency are quite an achievement, and she knows how to react and adapt to her opponent's skills.

Last edited by Maitsek; 16-May-17 at 00:08.
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