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View Poll Results: Who will be winner?
Ronda Rousey 158 61.72%
Jean Claude Van Damme 98 38.28%
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  #21  
Old 14-Aug-12, 15:44
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by gondal4 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Ronda is going down
2/10.......

.....must try harder.
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  #22  
Old 14-Aug-12, 15:52
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by lucad [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I think that what you guys keep ignoring in this discussion is the fact that basically there is no woman with real knockout power in WMMA, and when I say real KO power I mean one punch or one kick and you go to sleep.

Reason why I think that if she is ever going to be beaten, paradoxically it will happen at her own game on the ground (lets say McMann or Kayla Harrison or any other world class grappler).
There's no female JDS on the horizon, so I agree with you Lucad. I don't think McMann's tuned in enough to be aware of submission moves. She's powered out of them up until now, but Ronda is a step-up in competition and equal to Sarah in strength. Kayla could theoretically upset Ronda's apple-cart.
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  #23  
Old 14-Aug-12, 16:58
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by lucad [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I think that what you guys keep ignoring in this discussion is the fact that basically there is no woman with real knockout power in WMMA, and when I say real KO power I mean one punch or one kick and you go to sleep.

Not even Cyborg has ever showed that kind of explosiveness, and a one punch/kick KO power is right the only way to beat Ronda IMO, since you can't pretend to keep her stand-fighting more than 30 seconds per round. You eventually finish on the ground, whatever you try to do.

Reason why I think that if she is ever going to be beaten, paradoxically it will happen at her own game on the ground (lets say McMann or Kayla Harrison or any other world class grappler).

I agree that Alexis Davis would have been more of a threat for Ronda than Kaufmann, Kaufmann is just a perfect matchup for her, I mean Stewie is right, you can probably bet your house, even your mother on the final outcome.
on cyborg, yes. as i said:

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Originally Posted by sleepinbin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
and even when she was in her prime, cyborg wasnt exactly scoring clean kos left right and centre, rather overwhelming people with wild aggression...

kaufmann is a perfect style match up, as i said before, i agree, though davis would not pose more of a threat. probably even less of one because she has even less of a "punchers chance" than kaufman and shes not going to be able to stall out or get top position against rousey.

rondas judo isnt completely unstoppable in the abstract but again, yes, theres nobody in wmma whos clinch game is good enough right now to stop it (remember girls dont really do greco).

mcmann is developing slowly but her sub defense looked good vs. baszler, so i disagree with stewie there. and defending leglocks requires a bit more technical awareness than armbars. that said she hasnt taken to mma as quickly as ronda and would most likely lose if they fought right now but a little while down the line mcmann vs rousey could be an excellent match-up.

as for kayla harrison, if she can get down to 135 itd be interesting. tho of course u never can predict how well someone will adapt their background to mma (ask yoshida or takimoto).

in terms of betting, a bet on rousey via sub/itd would probably give (slightly) better odds and be just as safe as a straight bet.
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  #24  
Old 14-Aug-12, 18:06
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

Sarah Kaufman and Cris Cyborg tell the stories of their journey throughout their careers. From where they began, their inspirations, motivations, what they have went through to achieve success and the life lessons learned along the way.

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  #25  
Old 14-Aug-12, 18:10
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

Ronda talks Judo, this, that and about Kaufman at 9:40 mins.

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  #26  
Old 14-Aug-12, 18:19
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepinbin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
mcmann is developing slowly but her sub defense looked good vs. baszler, so i disagree with stewie there. and defending leglocks requires a bit more technical awareness than armbars. that said she hasnt taken to mma as quickly as ronda and would most likely lose if they fought right now but a little while down the line mcmann vs rousey could be an excellent match-up.)
Agree completeley, and I tell you more. I'm not sure McMann has not taken to MMA as quickly as Ronda. I mean, in terms of results, of course she hasn't, but in terms of style she has showed more adaption to the variety of MMA than Ronda.
I know that Ronda keep saying in her interview that you can't consider her a one-dimensional fighter since she hasn't had the need to use her striking so far, but for what I've seen in the few striking exchanges she had against Miesha early in their fight, she was having a lot of trouble and was clearly out of her comfort spot against Miesha (and I said Miesha Tate, a wrestler, not Mike Tyson).
On the other hand I've seen McMann way more comfortable on her striking than Ronda. So I think this could be a problem sooner or later for Ronda, cause in an eventual matchup vs McMann, she can't hope to bring a silver medalist in freestyle wrestling to the ground as easily as she did with the other kid girls of MMA and then finish the fight within the first 2 minutes. I think McMann could mange to stand fight for an entire round against her, and again, for what I've seen Ronda's striking is awful!!!

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Originally Posted by sleepinbin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
as for kayla harrison, if she can get down to 135 itd be interesting. tho of course u never can predict how well someone will adapt their background to mma (ask yoshida or takimoto)
I'll probably be banned by this thread by Stewie for what I'm going to say ...
but man, if they step into the cage right now Kayla kills Ronda, even without MMA training, cause basically it would be a judo bout, and has to much power for any other fighter I've seen in my life.
If you follow judo know what olympic level judo is, you understand that what Kayla did at the last Olympics is just INSANE: she scored 3 submissions (2 armbars) out of 4 fights against the best female athletes in the world, and she did it under the new judo rules that almost preclude ground fighting. Ronda was not even close doing something like that in Bejing, Kayla showed immense power.
Of course judo is completely different from MMA and of course Kayla couldn't fight in MMA at 170lbs, so I don't have any idea about how much of her power she would lose at 135/145lbs.
Btw, I think if she refuses getting into MMA, she is crazy. She has won everything in judo and she could earn at least 10 times what she earns with judo, so I can't see why she would not step in the cage...
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  #27  
Old 14-Aug-12, 19:18
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucad [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

I'll probably be banned by this thread by Stewie for what I'm going to say ...
but man, if they step into the cage right now Kayla kills Ronda, even without MMA training, cause basically it would be a judo bout, and has to much power for any other fighter I've seen in my life.
lol! I don't ban people who talk sense......certain other individuals, however.....

Kayla is without doubt, at the top of the food-chain. The biggest problem would be the cut to 135lbs. Not saying she couldn't do it, but it would take some careful planning and discipline, which I'm sure she has in abundance. Personally, I'd love to see more athletes compete in WMMA. Otherwise, I can't see it advancing very quickly. I mean, Cyborg is the only credible threat to Ronda and I think that in itself is a pretty poor show.
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  #28  
Old 14-Aug-12, 21:06
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by lucad [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Agree completeley, and I tell you more. I'm not sure McMann has not taken to MMA as quickly as Ronda. I mean, in terms of results, of course she hasn't, but in terms of style she has showed more adaption to the variety of MMA than Ronda.
I know that Ronda keep saying in her interview that you can't consider her a one-dimensional fighter since she hasn't had the need to use her striking so far, but for what I've seen in the few striking exchanges she had against Miesha early in their fight, she was having a lot of trouble and was clearly out of her comfort spot against Miesha (and I said Miesha Tate, a wrestler, not Mike Tyson).
On the other hand I've seen McMann way more comfortable on her striking than Ronda. So I think this could be a problem sooner or later for Ronda, cause in an eventual matchup vs McMann, she can't hope to bring a silver medalist in freestyle wrestling to the ground as easily as she did with the other kid girls of MMA and then finish the fight within the first 2 minutes. I think McMann could mange to stand fight for an entire round against her, and again, for what I've seen Ronda's striking is awful!!!
can't really disagree too much here. also, tate was able to (briefly) take rouseys back and she is a much, much lower level grappler than mcmann. mcmann's standup is VERY robotic but i think it is better than rondas (and less wild than tate's, which is a good thing when you lack power) and shell probably long term benefit more from advancing slowly than ronda has from being chucked straight in at the top, in terms of developing a more rounded game and closing the holes in it.

that said, mcmann is a freestyle wrestler so rouseys upper-body clinch/trip techniques would be more alien to her than dealing with someone shooting in. it will be interesting to see how rousey would handle being on the bottom and how much shes picked up from cesar gracie. against someone with mcmanns pedigree theres every chance she could get fitch'd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lucad [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'll probably be banned by this thread by Stewie for what I'm going to say ...
but man, if they step into the cage right now Kayla kills Ronda, even without MMA training, cause basically it would be a judo bout, and has to much power for any other fighter I've seen in my life.
If you follow judo know what olympic level judo is, you understand that what Kayla did at the last Olympics is just INSANE: she scored 3 submissions (2 armbars) out of 4 fights against the best female athletes in the world, and she did it under the new judo rules that almost preclude ground fighting. Ronda was not even close doing something like that in Bejing, Kayla showed immense power.
Of course judo is completely different from MMA and of course Kayla couldn't fight in MMA at 170lbs, so I don't have any idea about how much of her power she would lose at 135/145lbs.
Btw, I think if she refuses getting into MMA, she is crazy. She has won everything in judo and she could earn at least 10 times what she earns with judo, so I can't see why she would not step in the cage...
one would have to assume kayla would win by virtue of just being so much bigger than ronda, and probably a better pure judo player. getting subs at the olympics (given the rules) is no mean feat, youre dead right.

as regards money, it depends. wmma isnt exactly chucking money around, even at the very top level the women make way, way less than the men and theres a HUGE salary drop-off outside of the top 3 or 4 fighters even then. it could be more lucrative to just open a gym, especially when one considers the potential cost of injury. also, maybe she just doesnt want to get hit in the face. genuinely. some people just cant mentally deal with that no matter how good they may be at everything else.

as regards cyborg, btw, apparently she was saying the other day that she cant make 135 (not surprising tbh, she was shredded at 145), so talk of a fight between her and rousey may be academic.

wmma is a bit of a mess at the moment still, even though its better than it was before. hopefully it can improve rapidly!
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  #29  
Old 15-Aug-12, 00:07
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

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Originally Posted by sleepinbin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

as regards cyborg, btw, apparently she was saying the other day that she cant make 135 (not surprising tbh, she was shredded at 145), so talk of a fight between her and rousey may be academic.
If the money's right, they'll try for a catchweight match at 140lbs.
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  #30  
Old 15-Aug-12, 01:33
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Default Re: Rousey vs Kaufman: Official Discussion Thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepinbin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
as regards money, it depends. wmma isnt exactly chucking money around, even at the very top level the women make way, way less than the men and theres a HUGE salary drop-off outside of the top 3 or 4 fighters even then. it could be more lucrative to just open a gym, especially when one considers the potential cost of injury.
I know there are no big money in WMMA, I even said in an older posts that I'm pretty sure that the majority of WMMA girls would make way more money if they'd be full time session wrestlers, so I completely understand why Michelle Ould, who has also been a top 10 fighter has made that choice.
But Kayla of course would be in the top 2 fighters (if not the top), and I think she knows that, I mean she is able to see that she could smash almost every girl in the MMA scene. She should take this opportunity because, as you said, the moment of WMMA is a bit confused, maybe (and hopefully) in the near future the level will be higher and higher, IMO refusing to enter MMA right now for a fighter like Kayla is like refusing eldorado!!!

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Originally Posted by sleepinbin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
also, maybe she just doesnt want to get hit in the face. genuinely. some people just cant mentally deal with that no matter how good they may be at everything else.
This is not a possibility, THIS is actually the only reason girls like her are not so inclined to enter MMA. She was explicit about this during an interview and said jokingly that she "kinda like her face"....but I would be really really disappointed if she will decline the opportunity of a lifetime because of that
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