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  #11  
Old 05-Aug-17, 18:05
furrygrappler the second furrygrappler the second is offline
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by boyofwinter [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
If there weren't a strain of academia dedicated to 'proving' that any differences between men and women are due to culture and not science, this post would be less silly. Here are [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] worth reading, especially [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
As pointed out above 2 women did recently earn their Ranger tags and that's awesome, assuming they qualified exactly as male Rangers would.
But something that's rarely discussed, simply because most civilians don't grasp the dynamics involved, is the resentment in the ranks for female soldiers. In most cases it's not personal, it's based on them being treated differently, different physical standards, separate heads/showers, etc. @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] mentioned support roles and that's true, but unless you are behind a desk there is a possibility you will end up being involved in action at some point, and most soldiers know it's true that the average woman is less prepared to help physically in an emergency situation than the average man would be.
I don't care what some jarheads think. I've had extensive experience with service members, and I can tell you that being in the military doesn't mean you're smart or have an opinion worth a damn. There was "resentment" after forced integration of black service members too.

Some people are just awful. The less you care about them, the better.
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  #12  
Old 06-Aug-17, 04:17
boyofwinter boyofwinter is online now
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

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Originally Posted by furrygrappler the second [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I don't care what some jarheads think. I've had extensive experience with service members, and I can tell you that being in the military doesn't mean you're smart or have an opinion worth a damn. There was "resentment" after forced integration of black service members too.

Some people are just awful. The less you care about them, the better.
This is also wrong, at least mostly. At ground level, once full integration was permitted by the higher-ups it went more smoothly than people would assume, and for the same reason. The new soldiers fit into the herd and didn't draw attention to themselves or have it done for them.
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  #13  
Old 10-Aug-17, 14:14
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

I will tell you a story based on my own experience.

I tried out for SWCC(Special Warfare Combat Craftman) while I was in the Navy. Before they even send you to Coronado,California you have to go through intense conditioning at Great Lakes, Illinois. While doing the conditioning at Illinois they merge you with all of the SEAL candidates, EOD candidates, Diver Candidates and Air Rescue candidates. SEAL,SWCC,EOD and Diver positions were restricted for females. Air Rescue on the other hand was open. There were three girls that were Air Rescue candidates while I was there in training.

I personally witnessed A LOWER STANDARD set for the female candidates. Quite frankly, these girls had no business being in Air Rescue. I never once saw them qualify with the same swim times, run times and calisthenics numbers that the guys had to do. In fact, if any male candidates had been putting up the numbers that these three girls were, they would been dropped right there and sent off to the regular fleet.

That is the issue at hand. I witnessed it personally.

While I was in SWCC training I had to do rescue swimming exercises and it was not easy carrying a 6'4 musclebound guy across a pool while keeping my own head above the water. It wasn't easy to do it with a a 5'11 musclebound guy either I might add. I have no idea what happened to those girls but I have no doubt that they wouldn't have been capable of completing this task unless they were thrown a softball.

My opinion on the matter is that its not practical or economical to be pushing so hard for female candidates in these positions.
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  #14  
Old 10-Aug-17, 14:33
NewYork NewYork is offline
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

Unless there is a specific reason why they would need a female, I agree.
Like cops need to have women as practical matters. Firemen don't.
So I feel the standards should be the same. But if there is a practical reason that I don't know about, then I agree with you.
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  #15  
Old 10-Aug-17, 22:22
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssgenius [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It not "combat as in infantry" but more of operating specialized equipment and in that the women did that just as well as the men.
The basic mission of the infantry hasn't changed. In fact, we carry more crap now than we did in previous major conflicts.
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  #16  
Old 11-Aug-17, 23:07
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

The Navy’s First Female SEAL Officer Applicant Just Dropped Out
•Jared Keller
•24 hours ago
Code:
http://taskandpurpose.com/female-navy-seal-soas-training/amp/
The woman on track to become the first female Navy SEAL officer has voluntarily exited the training pipeline, multiple Naval Special Warfare Command sources have confirmed to Task & Purpose.

The female midshipman, identified by Military.com in July as a ROTC junior at an unnamed U.S. college, was the elite SEAL Officer Assessment and Selection (SOAS) program’s first female entrant since the Department of Defense lifted restrictions on female applicants for combat arms and special operations forces roles in 2016.

Had she completed the three-week course, she would have been eligible for review by the NSW officer community manager and officer selection panel in September and, if selected, received orders by October to report to NSW’s grueling 24-week Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training course.

“No women have entered the full training pipeline just yet,” a Navy official who declined to be identified told Task & Purpose. “She didn’t make it to BUD/S.” (NSW public affairs officials did not immediately respond to requests for comment).

The entrant, one of a handful of female applicants who have applied for elite special warfare roles, appears to have exited the training pipeline after completing just half of the command’s screening evaluations, sources told Task & Purpose. The first weeks of the program, which began on July 24 at Naval Amphibious Base Coronado in San Diego, include physical training with NSW Group 1 and a “mini” version of the BUD/S challenge that awaits the most qualified candidates.

The news of the entrant’s departure was first made public by Josh Cotton, a former Navy personnel research psychologist who worked for the Institute for Selection and Classification from 2009 until 2014. Cotton’s tenure with the institute focused on helping the branch screen sailors for various jobs; during his last 3.5 years with the ISC, Cotton worked with the NSWC helping officials refine screening evaluations like SOAS, BUD/S, and Naval Special Warfare Advanced Training Command, according to a DoD biography.

The first female officer candidate, alongside two female Special Warfare Combatant-Craft Crewman program entrants, represented a significant milestone for a service branch that had, until the 2015 Pentagon guidance, excluded women from the SEALs and SWCC community.

Navy SEAL training is infamously challenging, with a 75% dropout rate for those who even make it to BUD/S, according to the San Diego Union-Tribune. And according to the Navy official, NSWC is less concerned with the candidate’s failure and more concerned with her future service.

“People try and fail on their own merits, and we respect the individual for the risk,” he added. “And whatever happens, they’re doing it to serve and protect their country.”
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  #17  
Old 12-Aug-17, 03:58
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

This is an excerpt from an article I was reading about the issue-

Here is a link to the full article if you're interested-[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Two years ago, Army Gen. Martin E. Dempsey, the nation’s top military officer, laid down an edict on the Obama administration’s plan to open direct land combat jobs to women: If women cannot meet a standard, senior commanders better have a good reason why it should not be lowered.
Today, the “Dempsey rule” appears to have its first test case.

The Marine Corps just finished research to see if female officers could successfully complete its rigorous Infantry Officer Course.
PHOTOS: BOOM! U.S. military turns ISIS targets to rubble
A IOC diploma is a must to earn the designation of infantry officer. Of 29 women who tried, none graduated; only four made it through the first day’s combat endurance test.

Corps public affairs said it did not have the data on which tasks proved the toughest for women. But one particularly demanding upper-body strength test is climbing a 25-foot rope with a backpack full of gear. A candidate who cannot crawl to the top fails the test.

Traditionalists see the 0-29 performance as a call to arms by those inside the Pentagon who are determined to have significant numbers of women in the infantry. They are on the lookout for standards they believe are no longer relevant in today’s battlefield.


In January 2013, then-Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta and Gen. Dempsey, the Joint Chiefs chairman, appeared in the Pentagon press room to make a historic announcement. They had lifted the rule that prevented women from serving in direct ground combat, such as infantry, special operations, artillery and armor.
The cancellation began a far-reaching process by each military branch to evaluate female candidates and the standards they must meet. The giant study is scheduled to end in January, when Defense Secretary Ashton Carter will decide which, if not all, occupations will be opened. If a service — the Marine Corps, for example — decides infantry should remain closed, it must prove why its standards cannot be lowered.
Gen. Dempsey laid down the law this way: “If we do decide that a particular standard is so high that a woman couldn’t make it, the burden is now on the service to come back and explain to the secretary, why is it that high? Does it really have to be that high?”

On its face, the Corps might encounter stiff opposition to maintaining its officer standards in light of the fact women have passed enlisted infantry school, albeit a less-demanding course.
Gender neutrality
Dakota Wood, a retired Marine Corps officer and an analyst at The Heritage Foundation, said the Corps has to be prepared for a bureaucratic fight.
“I personally think there will be people in the administration, both in the executive and appointees in DOD, who will pressure the Corps, seeking the opening of all occupational fields to women,” Mr. Wood said. “My hope is that Marine Corps leadership are able to rationally justify current standards and hold to them.
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  #18  
Old 21-Sep-17, 18:37
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Default Re: settle the debate. (interesting)

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