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  #11  
Old 18-Nov-18, 17:05
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Hector Hammond Hector Hammond is offline
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

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Originally Posted by beatupbyagirl [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
have you ever witnessed this play out? Are you a worrier? Have you ever been faced down by a warrior girl?
Yep , I have some experiences in the field and I managed not to be subjected to a woman only when I was intimately decided not to be submissive.
They strive for 200%, we hardly reach 100%.
What I have learned is that in order to win a woman, we must fight against ourselves much more than against a male adversary ....
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  #12  
Old 18-Nov-18, 19:13
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Ah, I thought that's what you might mean. Your stated impression of Ronda Rousey is a made-for-TV persona. That image of her you described was crafted for one specific purpose - to sell a pay-per-view product. But it was just that - an image.

In the last 2 matches against Holm and Nunes, there is nothing in Rousey's movements or approach that would lead a considered observer to think of her as a fighter. She's a judo player and a damn great one, but not a fighter. Sure, we can all define things differently, but fighters seek to avoid getting hit or can absorb damage and keep going and she demonstrated no instincts for either.

Holly Holm, on the other hand, refused to tap when she got locked up by Meisha and years ago absorbed a brutal beating at the hands of Anne Sophie but kept going. That's a fighter.

My wife is a schoolteacher and looks like a schoolteacher. One look at her and the typical person would never guess that she's a flat-out assassin without remorse.

Regardless of what they SHOW, there are people who are wired differently than the rest of us and who possess instincts and aptitudes for fighting that will give them an advantage over a non-fighter in...fighting.
Or Ronda was just simply outclassed by someone with better skills regardless of her debatable "warrior" mentality, in both cases women that could box. And conversely, Holly got beat by Meisha with superior ground skills. You don't get as far as Ronda got without being a fighter of some degree and EVERY fighter eventually gets beaten. Again, I realize this is all very subjective which is why I don't believe in oversimplifying something like that. As far as your significant other goes, I'm sure she is every bit a bad-ass as you describe...and more power to her
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  #13  
Old 19-Nov-18, 02:12
beatupbyagirl beatupbyagirl is offline
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

Here is my analysis.
1) There is definitely something to this.
2) But, in the girl vs guy context I think it plays it's biggest role before the age of 15.
3) I have been a martial artist for over 20 years. (Black belt in judo, brown belt in bjj). In my experience, there are four main variables in determining who will win a fight: will, strength, athleticism, and know-how.
4) the warrior gene relates to the first factor, will. And it can make all the difference at a young age where there's not much strength difference and where most people don't have a lot of fight know how.
5) Strength. After age 15, boys become massively stronger than girls. Indeed, by 20, a 90th percentile girl is inly as strong as a 10th percentile man. Even female Olympic rowers and judokas only have the upper bofy strength of a 25th percentile man. So depending on how strong you are, girls that are stronger than you may be exceedingly rare. If you're a 10th percentile guy (i.e. weaker than 90% of men), you're still stronger than 90% of girls. If you're a fiftieth percentile guy, the percentage of women stronger than you is getting very low single digits. If you're even stronger than that, you're not likely to find any girls stronger than you.
6) Will vs Strength. Yes, someone with superior will (or motivation) can beat someone with superior strength. But this has its limits. Young Conan and inigo Montoya certainly had every motivation to kill their parents murderers as kids, but this sheer will couldn't overcome the difference in strength. Still, if you're a worrier, it may slightly bump up the number of women that can beat you up.
7) know-how vs strength. I have two girls at my bjj academy that are both brown belts (same level as me) and that actually both probably have somewhat more know-how. They both are excellent competitors with tons of medals. But due to the strength difference, they really can't touch me. Like I have to go pretty light with them. I have also been on the other side of this. I'm 175. When I roll with guys weighing 245 or even 280, it's probably the equivalent of me rolling with a girl. With guys that big, they start to be really hard for me once they get around blue belt. The 280 guy is a purple belt and usually crushes me. Bottom line is a guy with even a little bit of know how will be too much for most girls even with a lot of know-how.
8) there are very rare girls with know-how and 90th+ percentile strength. I sessioned with helen von mott once back when I was a blue belt. I got one sub on her, she got 3 or so on me. Don't know how it would go today now that I'm a brown belt. But in addition to know-how, she did have manly strength.
9) I acknowledge fighting might be a bit different than just wrestling. For one thing, balls. I remember doing a combo beatdown and wrestling session with a fbb. She was throwing hands at my face, and while I was focused on blocking those, I didn't even see her ram her knee up between my legs. She shoved me down after that, took my back, and rnc'd me. Trying to defend the rnc while my balls were throbbing turned out to be hard, and I had to tap.
10) bottom line. The number of girls that can beat you up depends a lot on how strong you are and on your level of know how. Even a fairly weak guy is still stronger than 90% of girls. I would say for the average guy, it's probably 1 in 100 girls could beat you up. Between 1 and 10 in 100 as you get weaker and weaker. Probably at least one in 1000 for a fairly skilled or strong guy.
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  #14  
Old 19-Nov-18, 17:28
beatupbyagirl beatupbyagirl is offline
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

Developing Will
Another point to consider is that non-warriors, even worriers, can develop will. As the article itself pointed out, many Navy SEALS have the worrier gene. You can safely assume these guys could take out the vast majority of natural born "warriors." Certain traits are so valued by society, that those born without them have a massive incentive to develop them. Will/courage is such a trait. Extroversion is another. Some of the best public speakers are lawyers even though lawyers overwhelmingly tend to be naturally introverted.

Two examples of extremely successful ufc fighters come to mind in this context. One is Georges St. PIERRE. GSP used to get bullied, and says he hates fighting. But he obviously has worked on his will (plus made himself second to none in know-how) and has been very successful. Royce Gracie told me at a seminar he's never been in a street fight. And in his octagon interviews he straight up said his goal was not to get hit. He likewise must have built up his will and his know-how to outcompete lots of natural warriors.
My personal experience is similar. I remember people being amazed time and again when they see me spar in muay thai or grappling because they don't expect such aggression from someone so naturally chill. But before I developed this, I totally withered in front of warriors, including warrior girls
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  #15  
Old 19-Nov-18, 17:56
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatupbyagirl [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Here is my analysis.
1) There is definitely something to this.
2) But, in the girl vs guy context I think it plays it's biggest role before the age of 15.
3) I have been a martial artist for over 20 years. (Black belt in judo, brown belt in bjj). In my experience, there are four main variables in determining who will win a fight: will, strength, athleticism, and know-how.
4) the warrior gene relates to the first factor, will. And it can make all the difference at a young age where there's not much strength difference and where most people don't have a lot of fight know how.
5) Strength. After age 15, boys become massively stronger than girls. Indeed, by 20, a 90th percentile girl is inly as strong as a 10th percentile man. Even female Olympic rowers and judokas only have the upper bofy strength of a 25th percentile man. So depending on how strong you are, girls that are stronger than you may be exceedingly rare. If you're a 10th percentile guy (i.e. weaker than 90% of men), you're still stronger than 90% of girls. If you're a fiftieth percentile guy, the percentage of women stronger than you is getting very low single digits. If you're even stronger than that, you're not likely to find any girls stronger than you.
6) Will vs Strength. Yes, someone with superior will (or motivation) can beat someone with superior strength. But this has its limits. Young Conan and inigo Montoya certainly had every motivation to kill their parents murderers as kids, but this sheer will couldn't overcome the difference in strength. Still, if you're a worrier, it may slightly bump up the number of women that can beat you up.
7) know-how vs strength. I have two girls at my bjj academy that are both brown belts (same level as me) and that actually both probably have somewhat more know-how. They both are excellent competitors with tons of medals. But due to the strength difference, they really can't touch me. Like I have to go pretty light with them. I have also been on the other side of this. I'm 175. When I roll with guys weighing 245 or even 280, it's probably the equivalent of me rolling with a girl. With guys that big, they start to be really hard for me once they get around blue belt. The 280 guy is a purple belt and usually crushes me. Bottom line is a guy with even a little bit of know how will be too much for most girls even with a lot of know-how.
8) there are very rare girls with know-how and 90th+ percentile strength. I sessioned with helen von mott once back when I was a blue belt. I got one sub on her, she got 3 or so on me. Don't know how it would go today now that I'm a brown belt. But in addition to know-how, she did have manly strength.
9) I acknowledge fighting might be a bit different than just wrestling. For one thing, balls. I remember doing a combo beatdown and wrestling session with a fbb. She was throwing hands at my face, and while I was focused on blocking those, I didn't even see her ram her knee up between my legs. She shoved me down after that, took my back, and rnc'd me. Trying to defend the rnc while my balls were throbbing turned out to be hard, and I had to tap.
10) bottom line. The number of girls that can beat you up depends a lot on how strong you are and on your level of know how. Even a fairly weak guy is still stronger than 90% of girls. I would say for the average guy, it's probably 1 in 100 girls could beat you up. Between 1 and 10 in 100 as you get weaker and weaker. Probably at least one in 1000 for a fairly skilled or strong guy.
I think the statistics on strength you are citing here relate to grip strength specifically, I'm not a 100% sure how good of an overall measure that is
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  #16  
Old 19-Nov-18, 19:27
beatupbyagirl beatupbyagirl is offline
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

The reason they chose grip strength is that it is a fairly good proxy for general upper body strength. Similar studies with bench press and other lifts reveal similar results. Any thoughts on any other parts of my analysis? Do you agree or disagree with my conclusions?
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Old 19-Nov-18, 19:52
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatupbyagirl [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The reason they chose grip strength is that it is a fairly good proxy for general upper body strength. Similar studies with bench press and other lifts reveal similar results. Any thoughts on any other parts of my analysis? Do you agree or disagree with my conclusions?
I mostly agree I think, haven't given this as much thought as you though.

The reason I brought up grip strength was a discussion I came across some time ago with people arguing that the difference in major lifts between males and females of the same weight was less than would be expected based on the grip strength data. Maybe they were wrong
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  #18  
Old 19-Nov-18, 20:02
beatupbyagirl beatupbyagirl is offline
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

interesting, thanks for the feedback. I don't think the data conflict. The major lift data consistently shows a pretty big disparity between what men and women can lift. Note that when you normalize by weight, you will necessarily see the differences shrink somewhat because men are, on average, much bigger than women. Thus, the average man (let's say 180lb) will lift much more than the average woman (let's say 140). The disparity will be a bit smaller if you only compare the average woman to 140lb men. Like I said in my first post, if you're well below average size /strength, you will have far more women that are stronger than you (compared to an average or above average guy).
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  #19  
Old 20-Nov-18, 02:53
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

Ronda also had the misfortune of being trained in striking by whatshisname (I can't even remember his name at the moment!). Not that she would ever have become a great striker. I think she had this thin veneer of a warrior (able to cut weight like a champ, train like a demon, fight with an open foot wound from a dog bite, etc.), but once she lost, it exposed all her insecurities and she became a big-time worrier.
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  #20  
Old 20-Nov-18, 14:12
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Default Re: Warrior vs Worrier Gene

Quote:
Originally Posted by beatupbyagirl [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Developing Will
Another point to consider is that non-warriors, even worriers, can develop will. As the article itself pointed out, many Navy SEALS have the worrier gene. You can safely assume these guys could take out the vast majority of natural born "warriors." Certain traits are so valued by society, that those born without them have a massive incentive to develop them. Will/courage is such a trait. Extroversion is another. Some of the best public speakers are lawyers even though lawyers overwhelmingly tend to be naturally introverted.

Two examples of extremely successful ufc fighters come to mind in this context. One is Georges St. PIERRE. GSP used to get bullied, and says he hates fighting. But he obviously has worked on his will (plus made himself second to none in know-how) and has been very successful. Royce Gracie told me at a seminar he's never been in a street fight. And in his octagon interviews he straight up said his goal was not to get hit. He likewise must have built up his will and his know-how to outcompete lots of natural warriors.
My personal experience is similar. I remember people being amazed time and again when they see me spar in muay thai or grappling because they don't expect such aggression from someone so naturally chill. But before I developed this, I totally withered in front of warriors, including warrior girls
I think you nailed it, completely agree.
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