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  #11  
Old 16-Jul-18, 14:47
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G-Force G-Force is offline
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Default Re: Are there any long term negative effects to being Choked Out/KO'd in Sessions?

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Originally Posted by Anji [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I belong to several BJJ/ Martial arts/ Grappling forums and FB groups and the subject comes up often, just today I read a post by a teacher at an academy where they have to dismiss a student because of his aggressive grappling led to him squeezing too hard and holding too long on a guillotine led to another student having a stroke, also I have hear several students over the years to have had seizures and strokes, recently a black belt passed away from what many believe was a stroke after been choke out too many times. There are studies that show plaque can come lose from an artery (specially in someone with blocked arteries/blood pressure issues and can cause a stroke. I am surprise people will let someone without any real training choking them until they pass out. (holding for too long can lead to dead brain cells from lack of oxygen in the brain). It is a complex subject, still in a new phase but something to keep in mind when grappling and not to be taken lightly. Here is an article/studie on he subject for those interested in reading more about it:
How Dangerous Is Being Choked Out? Plus The Difference Between Strangle and Chokehold:
One scientific study compared the effects of knock out in boxing to those of choking from judo Ė they established the 3 main dangers of choking:

1.when a choke hold is performed on someone with a cardiac disorder or hypertension.
2.choking between kids whose central nervous system and heart havenít completely developed yet.
3.continuing to hold after the opponent loses consciousness

This study shows the relevance of the neurophysiological assessment of athletes engaged in violent sports which can cause brain impairment. In fact, while professional boxers may show brain functional impairment in comparison to normal subjects, judoka do not. The lack of correlation between CBF values in boxers and the number of official matches points to the difficulty of taking into account variables, such as the number and the severity of matches during training.
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Thanks, really interesting.
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  #12  
Old 17-Jul-18, 08:04
mixed mixed is offline
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Default Re: Are there any long term negative effects to being Choked Out/KO'd in Sessions?

I wrote this some time ago:

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Originally Posted by mixed [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
A blood choke may cause the following:

Small blood vessel hemorrhage, which alters the surrounding brain tissue. Usually millimetric, but repeated injury may bring additive deficit (cognitive, concentration, movement disorders).

Vertebral or carotid dissection: This is very dangerous. I've seen hemiplegic youngsters from a ball to the neck. The inner layer of the artery peels off and occludes it.

Stroke due to other big vessel problems: Cholesterol plaques, unbeknownst anatomic variations that lead to non-functional arterial backup.

Bradycardia - arrythmia - cardiac arrest from stimulus to the carotid sinus: This is one of the reasons a choke works, but if your heart's wiring is faulty you may need a jumpstart.

Seizures (which, if mishandled, may be fatal).

I don't know how much of the blood flow to the brain is cut off during a blood choke, so I cannot say if the choke itself can kill the brain or just leave it in power saving mode.

Involuntary oxygen choke, trachea collapse, fracture of the larynx: You cannot breathe and die.
There are four arteries to the brain: Two carotids inside the neck and two vertebral inside the spine. They get together inside the brain. And the jugular veins collect the blood coming out of the brain.

The carotids have sensors (carotid sinuses) that are meant to detect whether your blood pressure is too high. If they are stimulated, they send signals to your heart to lower its beat rate and blood pressure.

In a blood choke there's many things happening:

The carotid sinuses are pressed, they assume your blood pressure is high and send a signal to lower it along with the heartbeats, so the bloodflow drops. That's the principle of the neckchop as well.
This could be enough to render you unconscious if your body is struggling and taking up a lot of blood.

Depressing the carotids and jugulars means that there's less pressure going upwards and more resistance going downwards, so there's less blood passing through your brain and the carotid sinuses get even more stimulated.

I don't know to this point if a certain position of the neck can cause the vertebral arteries, which travel inside the spine, to bend and shut. It's possible, though. In that case there would be even less bloodflow to your brain.

As far as I know, there is not a complete shutdown of the bloodflow to the brain, so the brain itself should not be in risk of dying. It just becomes too weak to stay awake.

But the things I mentioned earlier in the post can happen, though rarely, and those DO leave permanent damage.
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  #13  
Old 17-Jul-18, 10:17
mermao mermao is offline
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Default Re: Are there any long term negative effects to being Choked Out/KO'd in Sessions?

The more I read, the less I'm inclined to think that blood chokes are a good idea in sessions, however amusing they may be to watch. I've never been put out in a session because I've always tapped to a choke I couldn't get out of and the girl respected that. Hopefully that will continue to be the case.
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Old 17-Jul-18, 13:12
mixed mixed is offline
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Default Re: Are there any long term negative effects to being Choked Out/KO'd in Sessions?

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Originally Posted by mermao [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The more I read, the less I'm inclined to think that blood chokes are a good idea in sessions, however amusing they may be to watch. I've never been put out in a session because I've always tapped to a choke I couldn't get out of and the girl respected that. Hopefully that will continue to be the case.
I've never been put out, though my fantasy since I was a kid spins around being KO'ed.
I think I wouldn't enjoy it, being unconscious and that. Also, my wife is the only person I fight with and she has told me it would freak her out to KO me for real.

The funny thing is, when I scissor her without pressing anymore than the weight of my legs she starts to get glassy eyes and stop responding. I have to stop it and she tells me she starts to see black and her ears begin to muffle. So she could very well become a victim of a blood choke.

Other people in this forum have written they do enjoy getting KO'ed, they mention euphoria and other weird feelings. Also, they say their mates like to knock them out.

I had the temptation to knock my wife out when we were on the verge of it, but I didn't want to scare her away from our softcore wrestling porn that happens only once in a good while.
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