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  #251  
Old 23-Oct-17, 02:22
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: WMMA news / general discussion

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Just watched the fight on Spike (tape delay).

Fun fight and I presume Williams also comes from a striking background. Her style looked to be a mixture of Muay Thai and Taekwondo, which the commentators said she has a black belt in.

Always a risk when you fight someone relatively unknown as there are a lot of good women out there that struggle to get fights.

Another thing was that Hardy looked noticeably smaller, like there could have been a weight class between them. I wonder if she could make 115 or if Kristina is just a big flyweight. I just checked her amateur record and 2 of her amateur fights were at 135.
It's much better to match the up and coming talents with journeymen fighters who basically come to lose rather than giving them 0-0 fighters. The male MMA fighter Michael Venom Page just had a boxing debut two days ago and they gave him some 2-12 "nobody" to beat up and to look great while doing it. You basically know what to expect from this type of demotivated fighters with losing records while a 0-0 fighter is an unknown and always a risk, especially if it's a young hungry fighter that still dreams about having a career.

I don't know what Bellator was thinking but it was a pretty dumb move from their part as they were trying to build Heather Hardy up to be a big name in WMMA. They picked the worst possible opponent for her.

I guess their plan was to match her up against another striker to avoid a grappler testing Heather's ground game (which is probably lacking), but it backfired because she got a career altering beating by a bigger girl this way. In hindsight, a submission loss against a grappler wouldn't be so tragical because there's basically no physical damage involved in that.
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  #252  
Old 23-Oct-17, 10:08
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  #253  
Old 25-Oct-17, 13:27
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  #254  
Old 25-Oct-17, 16:36
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Default Re: WMMA news / general discussion

I watched the highlights of the Heather Hardy fight. OMG did that poor girl get the crap beat out of her. At the point where the fight was stopped her face was a total mess, with her nose badly broken.
It almost looked like there were two different fights going on at the the same time. Hardy was just boxing. Williams was boxing, kicking and throwing elbows in the clinches. I was shocked at the end of the fight Williams face looked normal - no black eyes no cuts ect.
You guys were right, this was a disastrous matchup for Hardy. It is going to take her a while to work past this one if she ever does. It would of been so much better if they would of found some 1 and 5 journeyman for her to build experience with. Now Heather has a crushed face.
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  #255  
Old 26-Oct-17, 03:11
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Old 02-Nov-17, 09:45
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Default Re: WMMA news / general discussion

Interesting discussion.
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  #257  
Old 03-Nov-17, 15:23
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  #258  
Old 03-Nov-17, 16:37
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Default Re: WMMA news / general discussion

Always root against Joanna. Too bad she's otherworldly good.
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  #259  
Old 07-Nov-17, 12:39
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Default Re: WMMA news / general discussion

I said that Rose could be a potential banana skin.

I think there are 2/3 main factors that led to this result.

1. Joanna's chin. It's not great. She was dropped by Gadelha and rocked by Karolina. In both instances she recovered quickly, but it signalled a big chink in her armour.

2. Rose's speed and athleticism. Under the tutelage of Trevor Wittman, Rose's movement and footwork has become ridiculously good. I would still give the edge to Joanna in hand speed, but Rose's ability to control and close distance to strike - cut off the cage, is perhaps superior at this point.

3. Joanna's lack of inventiveness and evolution. By now, Joanna has had quite a few 5 round fights. There's a lot of tape to be studied. Joanna is a fighter that is very technically sound. She does everything in a way that a good teacher would show you how it's done. This is also why she has such good TDD - she has clearly drilled a small, but effective number of techniques over and over. Namely the sprawl, under hooks and when she does get taken down, she makes very good use of the butterfly guard and cage walk to scramble back to her feet.

That said, there are always going to be some bad habits a man like Wittman will have picked up on and Rose has the physical ability to capitalise.

Joanna also recently moved to train full time at ATT in Florida. A move, in hindsight, that perhaps wasn't for the best.

Last edited by jiminy; 07-Nov-17 at 12:49.
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  #260  
Old 07-Nov-17, 16:49
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: WMMA news / general discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Joanna's chin. It's not great. She was dropped by Gadelha and rocked by Karolina. In both instances she recovered quickly, but it signalled a big chink in her armour.
Good observation. Her chin was bad before and it will be even worse now. The worst thing is that she seems to be in big denial about what happened if you listened to her MMA hour interview. She says things like Rose not having much power and that she didn't tap to strikes (when the footage clearly shows that she did) and that she wants to fight again as soon as possible which is a very bad idea. Considering how much damage she took she should take a year off to recover otherwise her chin and punch resistance will be gone completely.

The (T)KO was really bad for her. I'm sure that if this was a boxing match Joanna would not beat the count and the ref would stop it after the second knockdown as IMO she wouldn't be able to stand back up properly and would stumble around and the ref would have no choice but to stop the fight for her own safety! But since this is MMA and the fight went on she took even further punishment and was getting pummeled some more, it was so bad that she had to tap out to strikes. She is in denial about it but if you see this GIFs she was clearly tapping out:





I'm not pointing this out to shame her, I think she is tough both mentally and physically, what this shows is that she was really badly hurt and was getting buzzed by those punches to the point where her body just gave up and she couldn't even stand back up. Tapping out was just a natural reaction being in such a vulnerable and hopeless position. She was completely defeated at that point. She took a lot of damage in this fight!

This wasn't a fluke finish either. Everyone can get caught but Rose put her down twice in a short ammount of time, which likely means that she had Joanna figured out and trained to exploit her tendencies. The (T)KO came after Joanna tried to push her away with both hands which is a horrible habit that she has as she leaves her chin out and I'm sure Rose was prepared for that. Rose also trains together with Valentina Shevchenko who is also a muay thai fighter turned MMA fighter and has fought Joanna in the past. Considering this Rose is probably well prepared for that muay thai-style of MMA striking.

As you can see here, Joanna extends her right hand trying to push Rose away, leaving her chin completely exposed:



Rose was probably prepared for that. From my memory Joanna did that in previous fights too to keep the grapplers away. If that was a muay thai fight she probably wouldn't be doing that (she could just clinch them instead) and would likely beat Rose, but in MMA strikers need to worry about grappling and are more vulnerable. That's why some good strikers lose to grapplers in striking exchanges.

If people around Joanna care about her they should advice her to stay away from Rose and take a year to reinvent herself and fully recover. Rushing for a rematch is the worst thing she could do. The most likely outcome would be that Rose would just humiliate her again. She would be even more confident the second time and she's a bad match up for Joanna. As we have seen, she only needs to land one solid shot on Joanna's chin to put her down. In a 5 round fight she has a lot of time to do that and she also has an advantage on the ground.

Last edited by al89; 07-Nov-17 at 17:08.
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