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  #21  
Old 26-Jan-15, 14:44
bruce911187 bruce911187 is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

My comments appear in ( )

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minxy Li [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There are many 'Realistic/Real' videos out there. I know I have been in a number of them.

( You don`t make much of a distinction between realistic and real. I think that a bit telling.)


Many producers, want to make videos that THEY want to view. Their 'models' (note they are not termed as 'Fighters' or 'Grapplers') are chosen for their aesthetics, (looks which the producer finds attractive and desirable). The producers 'train' their models to do the actions which they find sexy and appealing. The 'models' would not be able to 'fight a hamster' this is true. I have not seen any combat/self defence fight won with scissors.

( As with the producer I debated this issue with, I think you illustrate my point a bit here. Wrestling isn`t combat. In the absence of strikes, kicks, and martial art joint locks, scissors becomes a potent weapon. As a side note your claim that you have not seen combat won by scissors, yet you are a trained fighter A triangle choke is scissors by another name. I watch quite a bit of womens grappling an MMA. Many of the matches are decided by a triangle and on occasion by a full on headscissor. A nice example was posted on this site just a couple of days ago. It`s obvious you don`t watch much of it or participate in tournaments.)

As a fighter myself, I am very concious when working with these females, because I do not want to rough them up without realising the level of my strength. This makes videos a lot less realistic. It is much harder to be gentle than it is to naturally go for it.

(Sounds like your realistic real videos are in eyes of the beholder eh?)

Also the models often just see the video work as exactly this: WORK. They do not have a desire to attend formal training classes or schools. They are able to do what is required on camera to earn their money. Women often do not want to turn up to training classes, even if they are free. The main reason is because they are not being paid to come and train. That is the difference between the martial artists, and formally trained fighters.

( If the trade was unified and organized correctly, models who do not want to learn to wrestle would be out and martial artists/fighters who wanted to wrestle would just wrestle.)

Martial arts skilled fighters have turned their interest, and passion into their work. They love to train in their discipline. I love to train with anyone who takes the time to teach me. Paid classes in a dojo, or with a work associate whom I view as a skilled role model.

(Good for you and I wish you nothing but success.)

UFC is the combat full contact sport of the modern times. This of course will trickle down into the session wrestling world. This is the skill fighters now enter the industry with, just as an era ago, high school wrestlers entered into the industry with what technique they were skilled in. It is a sign of the times. Everything changes. No one can stop this.

( It has changed somewhat but there will always be a demand for pure wrestling. Grappling is pretty close. So I disagree with your prediction. The invasion of certain grappling holds is probably a permanent intrusion.)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people want to see a woman overpowering a wimpy guy. There is a huge fan base for muscular women, regardless of whether they have the face of a cover girl.

( No disagreement there. I don`t think it possible to like wrestling with girls without appreciating strong fems. Myself personally, I wish female BB would all do it natural, I do hate what steroids do to them. )

Bear in mind that many of the videos on the market, are someone's fantasy. Someone somewhere requested a custom order clip and submitted their own script along with their payment. So just because it is not YOUR fantasy, the clip itself was someone else's. And if the clip was born of someone's scripted fantasy, of course it is not real. It is a script! Just like televised pro wrestling, it is not spontaneous.

( Again, so much for your realistic real. I`d like to let the porn industry keep all that and let somebody else do the wrestling.)

Erotic wrestling is a tangent of amateur wrestling, erotic wrestling is a tangent, and so is the more recent martial art floor work technique. The latter is popular with many people, the fact that the biggest most popular successful session wrestler, fighters, video clip stars that I know are all martial artists, ie; Veve Lane (US), Venom (UK, Tia (Hungary), Anscha (Hungary) the list can go on.

( Goes back to my original point and post. These ladies, and I think they are all wonderful fyi, but these are the ladies who have been trained. The old system that produced the great session wrestlers of the past is shuttered and gone in spite of what NYC producer says. He trains girls, so ok but hes another martial artist doing it.)

Anyone hoping or believing that 'erotic wrestling' could become an official spot is laughable (in my opinion). I really don't know what the world would have come to, if I turn on the TV on a Saturday afternoon to watch the sports highlights, and see the 'erotic wrestling results'. Could it go as far, as being recognised as an Olympic sport? Hilarious (in my opinion).

( It would be a hit on the Playboy Channel and the premium channels that show some erotic shows. It would fit nicely and given a chance I believe it would be successful. It`s not hard to see the potential so I think your opinion to be very flawed.)

'Erotic' wrestling exists because people want to see females (or males) they find sexy doing a sport they are passionate/obsessive about. Like me wishing I could watch Channing Tatum doing 'erotic weightlifting' or gymnastics.

( It`s a lot more then just a spectator sport. More couples out there then you realize are into it.)

I could be wrong, but I do not believe that deviant/fetish ideals and the sporting associations worlds are likely to amalgamate in this lifetime, and I would chance a bet, not in any future lifetimes.

(You consider it deviant so your opinions are quite biased. The right person or the right company could get it done. The genre came close in the late 70`s and another heyday could easily emerge.)

There is a difference between semi competitive and competitive wrestling/fights. They are not the same. Semi comp means that opponents are both fighting at a level higher than sparring, usually 80%. Fully comp is when both opponents are usually going at a level of at least 110%. These are the fights which viewers are seeking for when they want 'realistic'. The viewer's pleasure is induced by the vision of two women trying to almost kill each other (metaphorically) emulating Gladiators in the Arena. This is what men get a kick from since the dawn of time. However not all fighters will do this all the time. They do this for a living, and an outside interest. They do not want to risk injury for the income produced by one video. I myself feel that I do not want to be recovering and unable to work for any length of time following one competitive brutal 'action packed' video. The expense of losing work is far greater than the earnings made in one match.

(That`s the very logic that ruined professional wrestling in the early 1920`s and female mud wrestling in the early 1980`s. It has also stymied the progress of this genre. But I understand your point of view about all that. Pro fake wrestlers would agree with you to the man.)

If you wish to argue that this is not what you meant by more realistic videos, you were referring to a more traditional or erotic wrestling (which does not make the match more realistic because they are erotic. Unless you want the 'erotic' to be more realistic?).

( I haven`t a clue what you are trying to say here but I can assure you that erotic wrestling can be very for real. )

The erotic will not be real, because the women or men are just put together and paid to be 'erotic'. They are doing it for money, it is not organic. Don't be so deluded! Hollywood has always churned out B movies. It is the underpinning of the industry, always was, and always will be.

( There are substantial numbers of real erotic wrestling films, mostly older films. And you seem to dismiss or lack awareness of the many couples and lesbians who wrestle for erotic reasons.)

To summarise: I have the impression that bruce911187 is dissatisfied because he cannot find the women he wants making the videos he wants for the producers who make the style of video he wants to watch.

( LOL! I used to own dozens of videos and scores of magazines that I was quite content with. And at one time I also had a pretty big collection of pics and vids on my pc. Mostly fem vs fem which is my preference for viewing purposes.)

My suggestions are:

(thx, I luv it. )
  • Why don't you order your own custom clip, featuring the female grapplers that you approve of?

    (Because I quit buying about 15 years ago.)
  • If there aren't any suitable females, find some and train them yourself out of your own pocket (you sneer at the fact that no one wants to foot the bill, so I assume this means that you would).

    (I`ve trained 3 in my lifetime, I married all 3 and am still married to the last one. I do confess that I regret not doing some films when I was a bit younger but I`ve always been more obsessed with having the right girl in my bedroom.)
  • And if that doesn't work, maybe you will realise that women do not want to learn this more classic technique any more.

( You could not be more wrong about that. I have initiated various degrees of physical interactions in every relationship I`ve been in. I`ve never been up close and personal with a girl who didn`t become curious and interested. It will always exist.)

Final thought

People who do not buy or pay to commission videos cannot realistically expect their critical feedback to have much weight or influence on the people paying and being paid to work in an industry which is still producing a significant revenue worldwide despite the lack of your desired grappling style and females performing it.
( Don`t be a bitter PG scripted fighter girl.)

Last edited by bruce911187; 26-Jan-15 at 15:21.
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  #22  
Old 26-Jan-15, 15:39
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

Basically, this summarizes the criticisms of the vidbiz which I have been making for years.

The most basic problem, in my view, is that in current society, eroticism is not acceptable unless it is commercialized. The sports federations pay no attention not only to the erotic-sensual element, but to anything which might enhance spectator appeal.

Perhaps a society of the future will be different. I can only hope so.
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  #23  
Old 26-Jan-15, 18:23
bruce911187 bruce911187 is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by freestylefan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Basically, this summarizes the criticisms of the vidbiz which I have been making for years.

The most basic problem, in my view, is that in current society, eroticism is not acceptable unless it is commercialized. The sports federations pay no attention not only to the erotic-sensual element, but to anything which might enhance spectator appeal.

Perhaps a society of the future will be different. I can only hope so.
Ur scaring me dude. I almost think we might agree on something
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  #24  
Old 26-Jan-15, 23:03
KeriSpectrum KeriSpectrum is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

Wow, so this was an interesting thread. I don't think there's anything wrong with any genre. To each their own, as it goes. I've done every single aspect of competitive and that includes what you're a fan of, and many times in a private setting.
Are you Bruce that used to run ECNWC or whatever it was? Just a thought.
Putting any woman down for the style of fighting she enjoys is asinine as well as shameful.
The public has eroticized the underground wrestling scene. Cock fighting is illegal, and that's what you seem to be speaking of....women's cock fighting.
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  #25  
Old 26-Jan-15, 23:50
psf366 psf366 is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

This thread is kinda ridiculous. The videos we're talking about here aren't "real combat" or "real athletics" any more than the Super Bowl is "real" football. They are all events created simply to be appealing on your TV screen -- nothing more, nothing less. Yes, the excitement and drama are based on a sporting event. But compared to a "real fight" or "real athletics", wrestling videos and the Super Bowl are built to be more fun, more sexy, less boring and easier to understand. That's why they're called "professional" sports -- because business entities pay people to play them. Hey, if wrestling video producers offered NFL-size salaries to the women who work for them, I think the women might look a whole lot more bad ass on your TV screen but they wouldn't be any more "real."

What you're really asking for is better film making. I've written and directed tv and film and trust me, getting shit to look "real" and "exciting" on the screen is what everyone wants. And it's freaking hard to do. As I mentioned in another thread, go watch the making of HAYWIRE. Gina Carano is a real fighter but that alone wasn't enough to make a good film. She needed a director, a fight choreographer, a skilled DP/crew and lots of post production to make it look like she was having a "real" fight. In the end, the only important question is, was it fun to watch?

They call it "spectator sports" for a reason.
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  #26  
Old 27-Jan-15, 04:00
bruce911187 bruce911187 is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeriSpectrum [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Wow, so this was an interesting thread. I don't think there's anything wrong with any genre. To each their own, as it goes. I've done every single aspect of competitive and that includes what you're a fan of, and many times in a private setting.
Are you Bruce that used to run ECNWC or whatever it was? Just a thought.
Putting any woman down for the style of fighting she enjoys is asinine as well as shameful.
The public has eroticized the underground wrestling scene. Cock fighting is illegal, and that's what you seem to be speaking of....women's cock fighting.
Women`s cockfighting And you claim I am putting down a woman for her fighting style And you call the shows you and Minxy do a fighting style That`s funny

Let`s keep it real here. I`ve looked up your films as well as Minxy`s and you two appear have done nothing but fantasy films. If either of you have ever been filmed actually wrestling I couldn`t find it.

I have doubts about both of you. You call real wrestling women`s cock fighting. Minxy calls it brutal and compares it to fighting to the death in an arena.

It`s pretty obvious that wrestling is not something that is of interest to either one of you and that your opinions of wrestling and men who like is pretty low.

I can certainly see why somebody who wants to watch a real wrestling match is threatening to you.
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  #27  
Old 27-Jan-15, 04:18
bruce911187 bruce911187 is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by psf366 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This thread is kinda ridiculous. The videos we're talking about here aren't "real combat" or "real athletics" any more than the Super Bowl is "real" football. They are all events created simply to be appealing on your TV screen -- nothing more, nothing less. Yes, the excitement and drama are based on a sporting event. But compared to a "real fight" or "real athletics", wrestling videos and the Super Bowl are built to be more fun, more sexy, less boring and easier to understand. That's why they're called "professional" sports -- because business entities pay people to play them. Hey, if wrestling video producers offered NFL-size salaries to the women who work for them, I think the women might look a whole lot more bad ass on your TV screen but they wouldn't be any more "real."

What you're really asking for is better film making. I've written and directed tv and film and trust me, getting shit to look "real" and "exciting" on the screen is what everyone wants. And it's freaking hard to do. As I mentioned in another thread, go watch the making of HAYWIRE. Gina Carano is a real fighter but that alone wasn't enough to make a good film. She needed a director, a fight choreographer, a skilled DP/crew and lots of post production to make it look like she was having a "real" fight. In the end, the only important question is, was it fun to watch?

They call it "spectator sports" for a reason.
Lots of legit female wrestling vids have been made so you really don`t know what you`re talking about. It`s never been nearly as numerous as the fantasy schlock but plenty of them have been done.

I think the thread has become really fascinating. One gets the feeling that the fantasy female wrestling crowd wants to stamp out the real. Understandable for fake wrestling to feel threatened by it.

I may have to rethink my opinion on the entrance of martial arts into the Genre because it`s probably the only thing keeping legit women`s wrestling alive in this day and age.
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  #28  
Old 27-Jan-15, 21:05
ChristmasJones ChristmasJones is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

Damn, I just wanted someone to point me towards a company who did competitive videos in the vein of old DWW
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  #29  
Old 27-Jan-15, 21:07
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DiabloNYC DiabloNYC is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

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Damn, I just wanted someone to point me towards a company who did competitive videos in the vein of old DWW
You know the internet - you turn your back for a second and.... BOOM!
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  #30  
Old 27-Jan-15, 21:16
bruce911187 bruce911187 is offline
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Default Re: More Realistic Type Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixedwrestlingnyc [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You know the internet - you turn your back for a second and.... BOOM!
I tend to create chaos everywhere I go
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