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  #1  
Old 07-Jul-12, 05:57
Vixiebjj44
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Default Asking For All Opinions Please...

In the following video at around the 2:17 mark, you will see a female wrestler step over her male opponent and lock in a tight grapevine pin right in the middle of the mat for what looks to be a very convincing victory....Only there is never any pinfall signaled by the referee. The female wrestler then stretches out her male opponent, completely immobilizing him flat on his back for a solid 30 seconds until the referee finally whistles the end of the period.

My questions about this video are as follows: Could it have just been a bad camera angle and the male wrestler actually somehow managed to keep a shoulder blade off the mat or do you think maybe the referee was trying to help save a fellow male from the embarrassment that would likely follow being defeated by a female wrestler in that particular fashion by not signaling the pinfall? If you think the latter, did the referee really do the male wrestler a favor by allowing him to lay stuck in that position for so long, totally helpless, in front of all of his teammates and spectators in attendance? Should he have just slapped the mat and let the male wrestler out of his misery? Not to mention the physical pain he must have endured from being stretched out in a tight grapevine for that length of time, and it didn't look like she ever let up on it either...Perhaps the referee had been stuck in a similar position during his wrestling career and didn't want to see another male wrestler have to go through it. Who knows, maybe it was his first time officiating a mixed match and was unable to accept outcome that was taking place in front of him...Looking at it from the female wrestler's side, it doesn't seem fair at all. It would have to be extremely frustrating to out-wrestle and totally flatten an opponent fair and square like that and not get rewarded with the pinfall victory you deserve (assuming the male wrestler's shoulders were in fact down). It's also unfair to the female wrestler's team to be awarded less points for a decision victory rather than a pinfall. Do you think the referee would have hesitated to slap the mat if the roles were reversed and the male wrestler had locked in the grapevine?...Anyway, I'll quit rambling so you can watch the video and make a decision for yourselves. I didn't intend for this to get so lengthy but any opinions or thoughts would be appreciated if you're still reading.



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  #2  
Old 07-Jul-12, 06:33
Genericname2001 Genericname2001 is offline
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Default Re: Asking For All Opinions Please...

Nah. It looked like the ref was down there doing his job, and the girl certainly didn't seem upset, which you'd expect if she believed she had the boy pinned and the ref didn't call it. I think you're a lot more likely to see a referee cheating in favor of a home team in sports than you are cheating based on the gender of the participant.
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  #3  
Old 07-Jul-12, 07:03
Vixiebjj44
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Default Re: Asking For All Opinions Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Genericname2001 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Nah. It looked like the ref was down there doing his job, and the girl certainly didn't seem upset, which you'd expect if she believed she had the boy pinned and the ref didn't call it. I think you're a lot more likely to see a referee cheating in favor of a home team in sports than you are cheating based on the gender of the participant.
Appreciate your response...and if you're right I have to give the guy a lot of credit for being able to withstand a grapevine like that for so long without just accepting defeat as soon as she hooked his legs like most do in that position.

See: This video I posted in another thread ([Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register])

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Old 07-Jul-12, 10:09
Pupstar Pupstar is offline
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Default Re: Asking For All Opinions Please...

Hmmm. Didn't look like she was applying full pressure in that grapevine - he would never have lasted so long if she was - one of the legs looked kind of loose. From this camera angle it is hard to believe that his shoulder blades were not flat to the mat - The ref appeared to be looking for it - but didn't call it. Could he have been trying to spare the boy's ego?? - it's possible I suppose..

Last edited by Pupstar; 08-Jul-12 at 19:11.
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Old 08-Jul-12, 03:57
Vixiebjj44
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Default Re: Asking For All Opinions Please...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pupstar [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Hmmm. Didn't look like she was applying full pressure in that grapevine - one of the legs looked kind of loose. From this camera angle it is hard to believe that his shoulder blades were not flat to the mat - The ref appeared to be looking for it - but didn't call it. Could he have been trying to spare the boy's ego?? - it's possible I suppose..
Definitely looked like a clean pin to me, but it is a tough view. I would probably have a hard time slapping the mat myself if I were the referee but you've got to call it fair. It seemed like not calling it ended up causing it to be more embarrassing for the male wrestler.
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Old 09-Jul-12, 10:00
flipper flipper is offline
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Default Re: Asking For All Opinions Please...

i got the impression she was having trouble pinning his shoulders down fully, or maybe she had to pin the back down as well, the ref did seam to be checking quite a bit, is there another video of this match taken from a different angle, if there is maybe that would shed some light on what was going on.
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Old 26-Dec-14, 20:15
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: Asking For All Opinions Please...

It used to be common for refs not to call it when a girl was pinning a boy; several girls used to complain about it to me. But fortunately, these days, this kind of bias is much less evident.
In the video however, first of all, it is so unclear and poorly shot that it is very hard to tell what is happening, and certainly impossible to see the shoulders. The ref appears to be doing his job however, and in any case, there should be a mat judge to overrule his decision and the coach could appeal (although in hs, I guess they don't do that that much; but internationally, they certainly would).

In any case, she surely racked up points and won the match, in which they appeared literally to be "throwing in the towel."
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Old 26-Dec-14, 20:32
cee mee cee mee is offline
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Default Re: Asking For All Opinions Please...

When the girl first applied the grapevine, the boy's lower body seemed to be in the air for a good 8 seconds or more. Maybe that's why the ref was hesitant to call a pin. However, he appeared to be pinned for 15 or 20 seconds. But the ref was probably checking for his shoulders to be down.
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