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  #321  
Old 26-Feb-17, 04:46
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stymie stymie is offline
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Default Re: Has There Been A Sea-Change?

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I used to be (until about 5-6 years ago) an avid collector of FvM fight scenes from movies and TV but the sheer volume, coupled with today's mostly unrealistic, overly-stylized choreography eventually exhausted my interest.

Broadly speaking, when a female is presented as a protagonist in the role of a cop, solder/mercenary/government agent or alike and she goes one-on-one with a guy, she will win... Even if she is half his size and anorexic-looking.

Unless the scenes have something that truly make an impact, I feel many of us have simply become desensitised to kick ass females on TV, such is their abundance. It happened a long time ago.
Yes, much agreed. I used to check out all of Donnies Femmes Fatales clips looking for keepers but haven't for about a year. So tired of what you mentioned, and don't forget the dizzying amount of editing, and the camera seems to move more than the actors. They are no longer simulating fights, but, how do I put this...animating a series of poses. Everything is faked, like singers using autotune. Also, for the past couple decades directors have shown a fondness for filming in low-light. I don't expect the bright lights of the old batman series but c'mon, a babe in black leather needs more than a candle's worth of light to be seen. It doesn't make the scene more realistic, it just makes it harder to see.
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  #322  
Old 26-Feb-17, 07:00
brooksie brooksie is offline
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Default Re: Has There Been A Sea-Change?

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I will have to check out the episode in question to fully appreciate the story and how the action is presented.

I used to be (until about 5-6 years ago) an avid collector of FvM fight scenes from movies and TV but the sheer volume, coupled with today's mostly unrealistic, overly-stylized choreography eventually exhausted my interest.

Broadly speaking, when a female is presented as a protagonist in the role of a cop, solder/mercenary/government agent or alike and she goes one-on-one with a guy, she will win... Even if she is half his size and anorexic-looking.

Unless the scenes have something that truly make an impact, I feel many of us have simply become desensitised to kick ass females on TV, such is their abundance. It happened a long time ago.
I agree with everything you've said about the portrayal of females fighting. It's usually unrealistic, for one reason or another. My thoughts weren't particularly clear in the original post but you helped me focus them. In this episode, it wasn't a superhero, or a Charlie's Angel type or some tiny Asian girl with mad martial arts skills. It was just an ordinary character in a drama, a woman who looked fit and strong but totally normal. And the fact she easily beat a guy in a fight wasn't remarked on at all. That was what got me thinking. I wasn't sure I'd ever seen the subject dealt with so nonchalantly before.
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  #323  
Old 27-Feb-17, 00:45
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jiminy jiminy is offline
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

It might just be the case of a rare gem. They pop up from time to time and make you yearn for more.

Showbiz today is very politically correct on things like feminism. They like to present gender equality in a way that doesn’t necessarily reflect real life, even in crime drama type shows that try to reflect real life. That might explain why the other characters didn’t make a fuss about a decorated female soldier being able to beat a man in such a manner.

I maintain that the late 80s through into the late 90s was the golden age of the action heroine. The big difference back then was that casting was superior - women were being chosen for roles who looked the part. Women like Brigitte Nielsen, Cory Everson, Rachel McLish, Shannon Tweed, Kathleen Kinmont, Lucy Lawless. Tall, well-built and physically imposing women that probably could handle themselves against a good number of men. Then of course during that time you also had decorated martial artists like Cynthia Rothrock, Kathy Long and Karen Shepherd doing movies. The choreography was less edited and over-stylised with all this chop-socky matrix-style blocking with frantic cuts and shaky-cam that stymie alludes to.
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  #324  
Old 27-Feb-17, 20:38
brooksie brooksie is offline
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It might just be the case of a rare gem. They pop up from time to time and make you yearn for more.

Showbiz today is very politically correct on things like feminism. They like to present gender equality in a way that doesn’t necessarily reflect real life, even in crime drama type shows that try to reflect real life. That might explain why the other characters didn’t make a fuss about a decorated female soldier being able to beat a man in such a manner.

I maintain that the late 80s through into the late 90s was the golden age of the action heroine. The big difference back then was that casting was superior - women were being chosen for roles who looked the part. Women like Brigitte Nielsen, Cory Everson, Rachel McLish, Shannon Tweed, Kathleen Kinmont, Lucy Lawless. Tall, well-built and physically imposing women that probably could handle themselves against a good number of men. Then of course during that time you also had decorated martial artists like Cynthia Rothrock, Kathy Long and Karen Shepherd doing movies. The choreography was less edited and over-stylised with all this chop-socky matrix-style blocking with frantic cuts and shaky-cam that stymie alludes to.
Yeah, the point of this thread wasn't really about girls getting stronger. I think that pretty much goes without saying. When I was younger, most women didn't work out, now most do. We're far more health-conscious than ever. The point I was trying to make in the original thread that got rolled into this one wasn't so much about the on-screen action, it was the way the subject matter was dealt with. That's why the original title was "has there been a sea-change?". It's not the quality of the action or the physique of the woman. The original point was the question "are we more accepting of the notion that a woman can outfight a man", as this show's plot appeared to indicate. I would think that women's mma has two effects on guys watching - one, I could beat her and two, that chick could kick my ass. The latter thought used to be rather taboo in masculine circles. Now, not so much or so it seems.
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  #325  
Old 28-Feb-17, 06:39
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

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Originally Posted by brooksie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The original point was the question "are we more accepting of the notion that a woman can outfight a man", as this show's plot appeared to indicate. I would think that women's mma has two effects on guys watching - one, I could beat her and two, that chick could kick my ass. The latter thought used to be rather taboo in masculine circles. Now, not so much or so it seems.
I maintain there hasn't been any recent, drastic changes of opinion. MMA is being featured more in movies and TV but I think guys in general have, for a long time, been accepting that some women (women that clearly have the size, strength and physicality) could beat them up in a fight.

I've now watched the show in question on youtube.
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  #326  
Old 28-Feb-17, 06:50
NewYork NewYork is offline
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

My take.

1- Yes, women are getting stronger. Back in my day, girls working out were rare, and if they were great at sports they weren't celebrated like they are today. (they weren't really mocked, but they certainly weren't celebrated)
2- Crossfit is huge. Girls in crossfit routinely lift more than men who don't workout. Girls deadlifting 300 pounds, squatting 200 and clean and jerking 165 is pretty standard. All CF gyms have a few girls who can do that. (with of course many more men lifting way more)
3- Men vs. women fighting in TV/movies is generally pretty blah.
The guy tends to be a Dante like jobber (smiling), or she beats 100 guys (unrealistic) or they pan to the guy watching and the crowd.

I think they miss the mark when they don't make a fight personal. That makes it way hotter.

Last edited by NewYork; 28-Feb-17 at 06:50.
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  #327  
Old 28-Feb-17, 19:33
brooksie brooksie is offline
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

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Originally Posted by NewYork [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
My take.

1- Yes, women are getting stronger. Back in my day, girls working out were rare, and if they were great at sports they weren't celebrated like they are today. (they weren't really mocked, but they certainly weren't celebrated)
2- Crossfit is huge. Girls in crossfit routinely lift more than men who don't workout. Girls deadlifting 300 pounds, squatting 200 and clean and jerking 165 is pretty standard. All CF gyms have a few girls who can do that. (with of course many more men lifting way more)
3- Men vs. women fighting in TV/movies is generally pretty blah.
The guy tends to be a Dante like jobber (smiling), or she beats 100 guys (unrealistic) or they pan to the guy watching and the crowd.

I think they miss the mark when they don't make a fight personal. That makes it way hotter.
This isn't what I was trying to start a discussion about. The idea was more about societal attitudes, not whether girls are getting stronger. I tried to start a thread that was more specific but now that it's been folded into this one, the original point is lost, I think.
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  #328  
Old 28-Feb-17, 20:55
NewYork NewYork is offline
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

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Originally Posted by brooksie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This isn't what I was trying to start a discussion about. The idea was more about societal attitudes, not whether girls are getting stronger. I tried to start a thread that was more specific but now that it's been folded into this one, the original point is lost, I think.
But you didn't start this thread. Pupstar did in 2011.
As far as societal attitudes, its definitely more accepted than when I was growing up. I still think female bodybuilders are looked down upon (which I find reprehensible), but for the most part, women that look like Jennifer Thomas are way more accepted now than in the past.

I still think we need to work on the Nicole Bass' of the world whose death brought a lot of horrific comments.
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  #329  
Old 28-Feb-17, 21:24
KazanaVest12 KazanaVest12 is offline
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

Okay, I see the confusion now. I do remember brooksie making a topic about this, but I guess Zweig merged it with Pupstar's thread.
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  #330  
Old 28-Feb-17, 22:28
brooksie brooksie is offline
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Default Re: Are girls getting stronger?

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Originally Posted by NewYork [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
But you didn't start this thread. Pupstar did in 2011.
As far as societal attitudes, its definitely more accepted than when I was growing up. I still think female bodybuilders are looked down upon (which I find reprehensible), but for the most part, women that look like Jennifer Thomas are way more accepted now than in the past.

I still think we need to work on the Nicole Bass' of the world whose death brought a lot of horrific comments.
I think you missed the part where I said my original thread had been rolled into this one. I didn't want to join this thread bcs the question and subject matter aren't what I was trying to discuss. Girls getting stronger is not interesting to me because it's a forgone conclusion that they are, IMHO. But, as NY says, it's not my thread and I don't want to sidetrack it. As I said, I think the point I was trying to focus a discussion on is hopelessly lost now so I'm just trying to give this thread back to whoever wants to keep discussing whether girls are getting stronger or not.

Last edited by brooksie; 28-Feb-17 at 22:36.
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