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  #31  
Old 23-Sep-17, 23:57
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qwertyuio qwertyuio is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by al89 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Also, we're dealing with Yemen here that treats women horribly and has actually managed to be the ranked the lowest out of all countries when it comes to women rights. It's obvious that their society considers women to be completely inferior to men. There should be absolutely no excuses for them, I mean if they go around spreading ideas that women are inferior they should be able to beat them, right? If these athletic contests happened side by side the Yemeni men would be shamed mercilessly by the entire world for losing to some girly Czech women considering what kind of ideas their society has. Let's face it, there is no way they would save face. It would probably have a deep psychological effect on their entire society.
This would be the best part of it all. Where a society of men who feel that women are completely inferior to them realize that women from a different country that doesn't follow their BS lifestyle or take their shit are actually superior to them in every way, even physically. Nothing would humble them more and get rid of their ignorant views.
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  #32  
Old 24-Sep-17, 00:10
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

To address the whole cultural, economic and social thing...

Of course it plays a part but it goes much deeper. It's not just about the conditions right now but also about how different populations developed through centuries. Different climate, different food, different cultural attitudes, different lifestyles... This all played a part and through generations shaped people. Women from the countries I brought up so far just ended up on top and got the best of the best when it comes to athletic genes (relative to their gender of course). It's not like they haven't contributed to their societies themselves though, women from Eastern Europe have had a lot of freedom and an active role in their countries so they ultimately created those conditions for themselves to some extent.

At the end of the day does it even matter? The fact is that things are the way they are right now and the results are the only thing that matter in sports. Ultimately Russian, Czech etc. women have achieved better athletic results so far than males from those other countries. Of course you can find totally rational reasons why this is so. However this doesn't change the fact that it's still a highly embarrassing situation (and highly erotic from our perspective) because at the end of the day if you put them side by side the only thing that people would see would be male athletes getting defeated by female athletes. They wouldn't see all those complex cultural and social conditions and hundreds of years of history behind them.

Last edited by al89; 24-Sep-17 at 01:23.
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  #33  
Old 24-Sep-17, 01:45
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by qwertyuio [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This would be the best part of it all. Where a society of men who feel that women are completely inferior to them realize that women from a different country that doesn't follow their BS lifestyle or take their shit are actually superior to them in every way, even physically. Nothing would humble them more and get rid of their ignorant views.
The Czech women would give them a lesson in humility no doubt. It would probably actually be a good thing for them long term since it would make them reconsider their attitudes which obviously don't bring them anything good. It would be like a little boy getting spanked by his mother for misbehaving!
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  #34  
Old 24-Sep-17, 04:01
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wrestpet wrestpet is offline
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Default Re: Russian women vs Nepalese men athletic comparison

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Originally Posted by qwertyuio [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This would be the best part of it all. Where a society of men who feel that women are completely inferior to them realize that women from a different country that doesn't follow their BS lifestyle or take their shit are actually superior to them in every way, even physically. Nothing would humble them more and get rid of their ignorant views.
Well said. I would love to see they get beaten by Czech women in a real competition. I think they would run away from this reality rather than face it. It's so much better than seeing Nepal men getting beaten by Russian women.

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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
And of course you just don t care that afghanistan is a country at war since 30 years...
War/Economy/Coaching.... bla bla bla. Sri Lanka was in a war for 30 years. Most national records were set in that time. All are better than women's world records.

Last edited by wrestpet; 24-Sep-17 at 04:00.
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  #35  
Old 24-Sep-17, 05:26
cashley216 cashley216 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

Interesting thread. I appreciate the work and the thought that have gone into its creation. But any such work benefits from exposure to skeptics.

This much is obvious, I would think: By far the most important factors in determining the quality of athletic competition in any country in any sport within either gender are these: how many people participate in it; how organized the sport is; how well people are trained in early years; whether the best athletes go into that sport; the quality of facilities they have. That sort of thing.

I suspect that any social scientist who is not a one-of-us fetishist would see your stats on Slovenia and Afghanistan as demonstrating just how amazingly true the above is: Afghanistan is so wretched a war-torn place and has been for so long that even its best male athletes aren’t as good as the best women in Slovenia, at least in some sports. For you to point out that some Afghan athletes train outside that country does not address the point. If those athletes did not grow up playing the game under the right conditions and if they are merely the best out of a small number of equally unprepared athletes at home, they are not likely to be nearly as good as others who grew up with the right opportunities and are the best in their countries out of a great many who had similar opportunities. The level of competition within the home country during the athlete’s formative years is crucial.

Your stats certainly show that differences in the athletic potentials of the sexes is not nearly so vast as people used to think and some still think. Good work.

But even if you start from the fact that women in a given country are bigger on average than men of another, you still have to face the fact that the men in the other country have more testosterone. The athletic potential is greater. If that potential isn’t realized, that simply tells you the importance of the factors mentioned above.

What does this all mean for some sort of war between the men of one country and the women of another? Fun question. Given the testosterone factor, it surely does not mean that the average woman in one country would be as good a soldier as the average man in another (unless maybe those men have been long undernourished or something). But I suppose that Russia, given its size, could muster enough physically capable women to invade a certain kind of very small country in a no-firearms war and do rather well. Even there, training would be crucial. They couldn’t just send the athletes. If, somehow, they could round up all the athletes for the right kind of training, things could get interesting.

I know I’d like to see the movie or read the book.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and thinking about it. Thank you.
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  #36  
Old 24-Sep-17, 09:29
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

Lets take a sport afghans really practice. Even in bad conditions though. I looked at the player pool for the afghan national football team. Most of them play in 2nd or 3rd leagues of major countries like germany or england. The others play in first leagues of minor football countries like denmark or sweden. Anyway, they are professionals. It seems they can compete with the fittest males of the european countries and their "natural inferiority" doesn t seem to be a problem.


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More important, This means that this team of weak afghans would litterally crush any elite female team like USA (1.6 Millions female members) or germany (800.000). Actually a game between them wouldn t make any sense.



What a surprise. Afghans run faster, jump higher and have more stamina than german or american women... because they have testosterone.
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  #37  
Old 24-Sep-17, 11:09
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Lets take a sport afghans really practice. Even in bad conditions though. I looked at the player pool for the afghan national football team. Most of them play in 2nd or 3rd leagues of major countries like germany or england. The others play in first leagues of minor football countries like denmark or sweden. Anyway, they are professionals. It seems they can compete with the fittest males of the european countries and their "natural inferiority" doesn t seem to be a problem.


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More important, This means that this team of weak afghans would litterally crush any elite female team like USA (1.6 Millions female members) or germany (800.000). Actually a game between them wouldn t make any sense.
Soccer is a highly technical and tactical sport. There are 11 players, a non-athletic player can be carried by the more athletic players if those other guys run and work more. That's why a some relatively unathletic players became big soccer stars because they knew how to read the game good and were good playmakers or positioned themselves on the field better so they wouldn't have to run much. On the other hand you have a lot of ultra-athletic players who run around like headless chickens and don't really do much for the team.

Soccer just seems to be the kind of sport where men tend to beat women easier and the gap is bigger.

Quote:
What a surprise. Afghans run faster, jump higher and have more stamina than german or american women... because they have testosterone.
Why can't they beat the records of German or American women.

Let's see the comparison from the 2012 Olympics where their sprinter Massoud Azizi participated.

Considering that he was one of the Olympic representative of his country surely they provided him the best training conditions they could get. Also this man failed for doping so he was also doped up. Like it says on his Wiki: In 2013 Azizi failed doping test taken at 2013 World championships. Athlete was suspended for two years. He should have no excuses here.

Let's see how he does against the German female sprinter who was participating on the same 2012 Olympics Verena Sailer...

Here is his olympics 2012 sprint:



His time is 11.19!

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Now let's see what the German girl Verena can do. Her event is from 0:00 to 3:40 in the video:



Her time is 11.12! She beats the time of the Afghan man!
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The Afghani doped up sprinter wasn't able to defeat this feminine looking German woman! She asserted her athletic superiority over him!





Also, if he was running in that race he wouldn't even qualify for the women semi finals! He would get EMASCULATED if he was on that track running with those women.

Verena Sailer wasn't even an elite female sprinter at the time and she later couldn't advance to the finals of the Olympics.

If this Afghani sprinter ran in [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] he would finish dead last by a wide margin. He doesn't even deserve to be on the same track with the best female sprinters in the world yet alone compete with them! Those ultra-athletic black amazons would HUMILIATE him! As the saying goes, it would be as one sided as a gang rape. And that's despite him being a doped up male olympic athlete.

LOL this is just getting more and more embarrassing for the Afghan men...

Last edited by al89; 24-Sep-17 at 13:38.
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  #38  
Old 24-Sep-17, 12:39
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Maitsek Maitsek is offline
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Default Re: Female athletes vs male athletes from different countries

I can see both views here. I also think that, for various reasons (geographical, geopolitical,structural), there are very few high level elite men athletes in those sports (athletics, swimming...) in the countries cited (Nepal, Afghanistan, Yemen). It doesn't mean that they could necessary do better with other conditions, but it is very difficult to compare to very powerful sport structures (like in Eastern Europe and Russia) who can help to build a strong environment. Genetics, potential are not enough, even in athletics, to break records.

And if we try to do a men vs women "battle", it will always be controversial. The most interesting point about the analysis is to show the abilities of the women athletes involved. Their performances are often (not always fairly) compared to those made by the best men athletes, and it does not emphasize how exceptional those achievements are.
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  #39  
Old 24-Sep-17, 15:01
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Russian women vs Nepalese men athletic comparison

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Originally Posted by wrestpet [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Well said. I would love to see they get beaten by Czech women in a real competition. I think they would run away from this reality rather than face it. It's so much better than seeing Nepal men getting beaten by Russian women.
Afghanistan also has a history of treating women like trash. It's funny how the two countries with pretty much the most vocal believers in the idea that women are inferior end up getting embarrassed by female athletic records the most.

Here's an article titled [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] which sums up their situation.

These things are related though. If they have given women a more active role in the society the women would have contributed back. Considering that their attitudes to women go way back in history they have essentially pretty much wasted the talents of half of their population for a long long time. Their culture simply hasn't been effective enough and over generations their athleticism and strength has diminished as well as a result.

Women in Europe on the other hand have been included in their society and have helped to make those better conditions for themselves. This isn't just a modern thing but it goes way back in the past. Some of the greatest Russian leaders in history have been women going back to Olga of Kiev in the 10th century to Elisabeth of Russia (who humiliated Frederick the Great's Prussia in war) and Catherine the Great. The wise decisions of those women of the past have helped the modern Russian women too. Those women guided their country well and helped it to eventually become a superpower. Russian women being extremely intelligent is also proven by their great chess players like [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register], imagine what a waste of human intelligence it would be if they were threated like the Yemeni women.

There's a false modern narrative that women were treated badly in medieval and early modern Europe but this isn't true as relative to the other world and given the conditions of the time they had a lot of possibilities. Certainly more than in Islamic world at the time. There were women rulers and powerful women aristocrats and women could get the best education possible if they went to monasteries which produced brilliant minds like [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register].

This [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] showing the Muslims surrendering to Christian Spanish in Granada 1492 reflects what I'm saying very well. When the Muslims in Granada were defeated by the Christian Europeans they didn't just surrender in front of men, they also surrendered and capiluted in front of queen Isabella and other powerful Spanish aristocratic women who were present so it was not just a triumph for men but also a triumph for women over a society which didn't give women the same importance. In the same year Columbus discovered the Americas as a result of queen Isabella's wise decision to finance him and this marks the beginning of the subsequent European domination over the world.

So basically even if you attribute everything to living conditions this is also something that European women achieved for themselves in many ways.

I don't care if people might see me poiting these things out as controversial. I don't mean to put anybody down, I just love and respect European women and love to see them triumph. Also being fascinated with powerful and athletic women is a European tradition going back to the myths of the Amazons and the [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] art in the middle ages and renaissance. This "fetish" is actually very historic in Europe.

Last edited by al89; 24-Sep-17 at 15:09.
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  #40  
Old 24-Sep-17, 16:19
LDooby LDooby is offline
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Default Re: Russian women vs Nepalese men athletic comparison

I doubt it.

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Originally Posted by del [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Thanks! How would the results go with combat sports like boxing, mma, or Muay Thai? Would the Nepalese men fare any better there? I'd love to see those contests.
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