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#751
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
Every time I post my updated list of The Top Fetish Wrestlers of All Time I keep hoping it will generate responses -- even criticisms -- about my choices and where I rated them.
Unfortunately, no one has yet critiqued my list in depth to let me know who should be on it but was left off and who perhaps was rated too high or too low. I have ranked a lot of women from many walks of life -- session wrestlers, porn stars who made wrestling videos, spankers, ballbusters, femdoms, etc. -- trying to get a varied and as complete-as-possible look at the fetish wrestling industry over the last 60 years. On my own I keep coming up with names of women who should have been previously ranked but were not because I was either ignorant to their existence or I initially felt they did not deserve to be ranked among the world's best but later realized I was wrong. There are 11 new additions to this list including two women who definitely should have been on in prior postings -- Ina Black and Saharra Huxly. Yet, there are probably 100 or more fetish grapplers of the past and present who should be on this list and hopefully will one day find their way to it as I further research the industry and post further updates. I hope members of this forum enjoy this updated list and -- again -- feel free to debate my choices, especially if I have omitted your favorite: Edit: Formatted table to forum format. Now it is sortable Love your work on this, btw! Z Top Fetish Wrestlers of All Time (1-50)
# A = Active; R = Retired; D = Deceased If any wrestler has been omitted from my rankings that you believe belongs among the 175 grapplers ranked above, please indicate where you think that omitted wrestler should be placed and the reasons why. Also, if you believe that I over-ranked or under-ranked a particular wrestler on the above list, please tell me where you believe that wrestler should be rated and your reasons why. |
#752
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
What an extraordinary list!
What kind of validity can it have, for what purpose, and what on earth can it be based on? If I were to give a list of Olympic champions, it would be based on their having won competitions held under reasonable, or at least consistent, rules. Nevertheless there could be plausible doubt if they were really the "best" wrestlers. But the list above can be nothing more than the result of applying some subjective, personal criterion. |
#753
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
Yes it is a subjective list but then we'd all come up with a subjective list. We have our favorites. I think it's an excellent job of listing the women he believes are the best. He also admits there might be others who should be on the list. Use it as a start point to add or subtract others as you recommend. Thank you Cigar, good job.
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#754
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
In wake of the comments so far, I should clarify the origins of my list – my own sick mind.
First, I want to thank both Ellie and Freestyle for their comments. Perhaps they and others would like to post their Top 20 or so female fetish wrestlers and we can compare our choices. Of course my list is subjective. What else could it possibly be? There is no committee of representatives from this forum or any other that have helped me compile it. I do not gather with friends – what, a circle of neighborhood pervs?—to put this list together. Even my closest friends do not know of my love for fetish wrestling. (Does anyone on this board tell their friends, co-workers, anyone that they love to grapple with gals or watch ladies fight? I rather doubt it.) I have gathered results from videotaped matches and photo sets – who beat who in actual fem vs. fem matches – to try to rate the gals in order. It’s a lot tougher to mix in and give a rank to the women who only wrestle men, especially when the females’ spotless records are against males who routinely put them over. In addition to the excellent wrestlers like Helen Von Mott and Veve Lane, I also include in the mix the many fine jobbers out there like Lisa Comshaw, Frankie Zappitelli, Sinn Sage and others who so often agree in scripted matches to be the “humiliated” loser against women they might be able to beat in non-staged fights. And I sprinkle in women who barely wrestle, but rather primarily engage in other similar combat activities against men and other women – femdom, ballbusting, c-busting, spanking, whipping, etc. And I offer the list to members of this board and encourage the knowledgeable ones – especially those who pay a lot of money for the experience of session wrestling – to help me make the list much better by making me aware of other women wrestlers who should be among those who deserve recognition. Next up, I will introduce another subjective list – my All-Time Top CFNM-CFNF Fetish Wrestlers (by nine weight divisions). |
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#755
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
In my previous posting of my most recently updated list of the Top 175 Fetish Wrestlers of All Time, I included on-themed women who have done CFNM (clothed female, nude male) and CFNF (clothed female, nude female) wrestling matches along with those who have not ventured into that genre.
I wanted to make that particular list as inclusive and complete as possible. But, then again, this thread is all about clothed women wrestling or fighting with naked men and nude women. I felt there should be a ranking system set aside for those ladies who have both stripped an opponent while keeping their clothes on and those who have found themselves battling naked against a clothed woman. So, what I have done is separate from my list of 175, the 109 women who have engaged in CFNM or CFNF combat in photo shoots or in at least one video. As a result, you will not find such top wrestlers as Helen Von Mott, Veve Lane and Ziggy, who for one reason or another have declined to engage in mat action against an unclad male or female. Some outright refuse, others probably have not gotten around to doing such videotaped matches. Let’s face it, CFNM and CFNF wrestling is just not everyone’s cup of tea. However, anyone who opens up this thread to read the postings or look at the pictures is likely into this particular fetish wrestling niche. The following rankings include both active, retired and one deceased wrestler as it is meant to acknowledge the all-time CFNM/CFNF wrestling best. So it should not come as a surprise that at least two of my No. 1s no longer fetish wrestle – light heavyweight Aziza from Woman’s World Productions of South Florida and ex-Ultimate Surrender Season champion Dia Zerva, my top featherweight. And, in some cases it did not take many matches for a couple of the women to achieve the top spot in their particular weight class: Aziza made just three CFNF matches as the CF – against NFs Rachel, Candi and Zora, all for Woman’s World. Top middleweight Angel “Riptide” Orsini made just two CFNF wrestling videos (as the CF) prior to turning to the professional ring, defeating NFs Rachel and Jill Monroe, also for Woman’s World. And highly sought-after session wrestler Jennifer Thomas, the top welterweight on the following list -- and a regular contributor to this forum -- has had just one known videotaped CFNF fight encounter as the CF defeating NF Sam The Stripper, aka Samantha Grace, an experienced Southern California session wrestler. In another thread on this forum, I questioned Jennifer about her having made this particular video. She said she barely remembered doing it. She said she does not do nudity in videos, but when the director asked her if her opponent could be naked, she said that was OK. (I kind of got the opinion that Jennifer does not consider this video among her finest work in the fetish wrestling biz.) Jennifer, however, indicated to readers of this forum that she does not plan to do another CFNF match, although bikini-clad Jennifer did defeat a topless Lisa Comshaw in a videotaped match for Robin’s Les Femmes Fatales production company. Also, Jennifer told this forum that she has no intention of doing a CFNM wrestling video. At the bottom of this posting are photos of the No. 1-ranked wrestlers in each division in order from heavyweight to flyweight. The images depict them as CFs defeating either a naked man or a nude woman. Again, your comments to – and criticisms of -- the following rankings below are most welcomed. All-Time Top CFNM/CFNF Wrestlers by Weight Classes All of the women below are or were fetish wrestlers who either wrestled clothed against nude men or nude women or were nude against clothed women in photographs or in at least one videotaped match. Heavyweights (176 pounds or greater) 1 Goddess Severa (6-5, 180) California, USA 2 Bunny Glamazon (6-3, 220) Indiana, USA 3 Saharra Huxly (6-0, 210), Florida, USA 4 Afrika (5-9, 190) California, USA 5 Anna Konda (5-4, 245) Germany 6 Afrika (5-9, 190) California, USA 7 Goddess Amazon (6-2, 180?) Georgia, USA 8 Amber Black (5-11, 180) New Mexico, USA 9 Julia Jameson (5-10?, 176?) California, USA Light Heavyweights (156-175 pounds) 1 Aziza (5-11, 165), Florida?, USA 2 Nancy Novak (5-7, 150) Nevada, USA 3 Sandy White (5-4, 165?) California, USA 4 Kristie Etzold (5-4, 165) California, USA 5 Kasie Cavanaugh (5-7, 175) California, USA 6 Rapture (5-10, 165) Nevada, USA 7 Debra D’Andrea (5-9, 170) Florida, USA 8 Shelly “The Burbank Bomber” Berg (5-8, 165) California, USA 9 Joey [of Nut Crunch Central] (5-10, 160?) USA 10 Lady Milady (5-9, 160) England Super Middleweights (146-155 pounds) 1 Angel “Riptide” Orsini (5-6, 155) Florida, USA 2 Mistress Kara (5-7, 155) 3 April Hunter (5-9, 150) Kentucky, USA 4 Abby Aldrich (5-10, 150) USA 5 Mistress Treasure (5-6, 150) Nevada, USA 6 Mistress Monika (5-9?, 150) Poland 7 Emma Butt (5-11, 150) England 8 Skylar Rene (5-7, 150) California, USA 9 Jasmine Mendez (5-10, 150) California, USA Middleweights (136-145 pounds) 1 Maxxyne Payne (5-10?, 145) Georgia, USA 2 Isamar Gutierrez (5-3, 140) California, USA 3 Scarlett Devine (5-11, 145) Nevada, USA 4 Maria [of Femaledom] (5-6, 145) Spain 5 Isabella [of Ballbusting Chicks] (5-9. 140?) Germany? 6 Jenna Preston (5-11, 140) Toronto, Canada 7 J.C. Simpson (5-11, 140) Florida, USA 8 Rachel [of Woman’s World] (5-10, 140) Florida, USA 9 Cherry Morgan (5-9, 140) Tennessee, USA 10 Lady Victoria (5-3, 140) Ohio, USA 11 Penny Barber (5-6, 140) USA Welterweights (131-135 pounds) 1 Jennifer Thomas (5-1, 135) California, USA 2 Christine Dupree (5-5, 132) California, USA 3 Heather Tristany (5-7, 135) USA 4 Jill Monroe (5-6, 133) Scotland 5 Keri Spectrum (5-7, 135) New Jersey, USA 6 Yana Jordan (5-5, 135) California, USA 7 Asian Kim [of Carolina Catfights] (5-4, 135) North Carolina, USA 8 Tylene Buck (5-6, 135) California, USA 9 Sandy [of Femaledom] (5-7, 135) Hungary 10 Hellena Heavenly (5-7, 135) California, USA 11 Ashlee Chambers (5-4, 135) Texas, USA 12 Lexi Davis (5-10, 135) Georgia, USA Lightweights (126-130 pounds) 1 Mistress Amrita (5-6, 130) France by way of Japan 2 Antscha (5-3, 130) Hungary 3 Dragon Lily (5-4, 130) Nevada, USA 4 Daisy Ducati (5-9, 130) California, USA 5 Cheyenne Jewel (5-5, 130) Nevada, USA 6 Mistress Elise (aka Eleise de Lacy) (5-10, 130) England 7 Katja [of Femaledom] (5-7, 130) Romania 8 Melanie Memphis (5-7, 130) Hungary 9 Max Mikita (5-7, 130) USA 10 Yuliya Kate (5-7, 130) Vancouver, Canada 11 Eliza Divine (5-6, 128) Georgia, USA 12 Frankie Zappitelli (5-8, 130), Canada 13 Candi [of Woman’s World] (5-7, 127) Florida, USA 14 Anastasia Pierce (5-10, 130) Switzerland 15 Shelli [Woman’s World] (5-6, 130) Florida, USA 16 Vanessa Harding (5-7, 130) Florida, USA 17 Jolene the Valkyrie Hexx (5-8, 130) Nevada, USA 18 Sinn Sage (5-5,130) California, USA 19 Mutiny (5-3, 130) Montreal Canada 20 Jewell Marceau (5-3, 130) California, USA 21 Venus DeLight (5-4, 130) Minnesota, USA Featherweights (121-125 pounds) 1 Dia Zerva (5-5, 125) Nevada, USA 2 Goldie Blair (5-3, 125) England 3 Lady Inessa (5-9, 125) Canada by way of Russia 4 Phoenix Askani (5-8, 125) California, USA 5 Diana Knight (5-8, 125) California, USA 6 Goddess Ava Amadahy (5-9, 125) Florida, USA 7 Shania [of Femaledom] (5-3, 125) Hungary 8 Brianna Beach (5-7, 125) Florida, USA 9 Wenona (5-9, 125) Florida, USA 10 Candi [of Woman’s World] (5-7, 125) Florida, USA 11 Lisa Comshaw (5-6, 125) California, USA 12 Hollywood [ aka Jeanne Basone] (5-7, 125) California, USA 13 Randy Moore (5-8, 125) California, USA Bantamweights (116-120 pounds) 1 Robin [of Les Femme Fatales] (5-6, 120) California, USA 2 Mistress Trish (5-6, 120) New York?, USA 3 Gia Primo (5-4, 120) Illinois, USA 3 Domina Nyx [aka Nyx Blake] (5-7, 120) New York, USA 4 Santana [of Double Trouble] (5-4, 120?), California, USA [DECEASED] 5 Claire Adams (5-5, 120) USA 6 Francesca Le (5-2, 120) California, USA 7 Audrey Leigh (5-8, 120) USA 8 Cory Chase (5-6, 120) Florida, USA 9 Sybil Starr (5-4, 120) Michigan, USA 10 Candy [of Double Trouble] (5-4?, 120?) USA 11 Brittany Lynn [of Sexy Fantasies] (5-4, 120), USA Flyweights (115 pounds or less) 1 Ariel X (5-4, 115) California, USA 2 Alex Del Monacco (5-6, 110) Illinois, USA 3 Angella Faith (5-2, 115) California, USA 4 Ariella Ferrera (5-7, 115) Colombia 5 Nicole Oring (5-3, 100) USA by way of South Korea 6 Prinzzess Sahara (5-4, 115) USA 7 Emily Addison (5-4, 115) New York, USA 8 Jade Indica (5-2, 115) New York, USA 9 Kelsi (5-6, 110?) USA 10 Julie Winchester (5-5, 115) Nevada, USA 11 Tanya Danielle (5-5, 115) California, USA 12 Leigh Betchley (5-1, 105?) California, USA 13 Andre Shakti (5-6, 115) USA 14 Stacy Burke (5-3, 105) California, USA |
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#756
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
Quote:
it might not matter to everyone but as it probably matters to some,i thought it would be right to share the info. |
#757
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
Luffa, Thank you for your input, but I am deeply troubled by what you wrote – and not for the reason you may think I might be troubled.
I am heterosexual but I am not homophobic nor have I got anything against transgenders (although I do have trouble accepting that a woman, Ms. Jenner, won the Decathlon at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City, chuckle, chuckle). However, because my Top Fetish Wrestlers of All Time list is devoted to female grapplers, I have avoided knowingly listing transgenders. They just do not fit the spirit of this forum or our particular fetish. Based on your statement, Luffa, I viewed numerous Google pages under appropriate – and, dare I say, inappropriate -- search terms and I have found nothing that confirms that what you posted has a shred of accuracy. I remind everyone that the Internet is a filthy, horrible place that would have no trouble outing a public figure like a female adult film star having been at one-time a dude. Quite frankly such a fact would be plastered all over the porn-driven internet and I would have had no trouble finding what Luffa posted with a simple Google search. Yes, Saharra is a big woman and yes she appears to be a gal who can kick many men’s asses. But, speaking for myself -- a man who admires tall and strong women -- I have learned over the years that a woman who is Amazonian in proportions does not mean that said woman used to be a fella. My (real-life) wife is 6-foot-2 and weighs greater than 200 pounds. She also has large feet and large hands. But I have seen her “baby girl” birth certificate and her childhood photos. Other than being the tallest girl (and wearing a dress) in her 4th grade class, there is no substantiation she was ever anything but a female. Yet my poor wife has spent almost all of her adult years as a woman having to defend that she is 100 percent to the distaff side. It has been horrible and hurtful for her to deal with such rumors and innuendo. So naturally I feel empathy for any woman who has to fend off such unsubstantiated claims. Luffa, if you have any evidence – real evidence -- that any woman on my list is a transgender, post it and I will remove that woman from the rankings. But, for now Saharra Huxly stays on my list. And, for you Saharra Huxly fans, I plan in the next few days to post some more action images of her, including Saharra’s victory over ChiChi Medina in a CFNF catfight in Saharra’s dungeon. Also at this time I am asking the administrators of this forum to remove both Luffa’s post and my post as well as any other follow-up posts to this thread on this subject matter. They border on homophobia and serve only as fodder to start unsubstantiated rumors that a particular fetish wrestler/adult film star is anything other than what she advertises herself to be – a woman. If for nothing else we should be concerned about potential libel suits. I mean no disrespect to Luffa who I would like to believe posted what he posted as a means to educate me and perhaps alert me to a mistake I may have made. But his post should not have been made without being accompanied by links to legitimate, reliable and respected Web sites or other sources that would support his statement. If Luffa somehow does come up with real evidence -- and if the administrators think it is appropriate to post it to this forum -- by all means he can repost his evidence-supported claim. |
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#758
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
Hey, @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register], just reformatted your table to the forum table format. Now it is sortable too (click on column titles). Love your work on this!
To see how it works, just quote your post #751 from this topic and you will see the code. Here's the start and end of the table: HTML Code:
[table="head;"]Rank|Did CFNM(F)|Name|Status|Height|Weight|Shoe size|Location|Previous rank 1|No|Helen Von Mott|A|5' 8"|155|10|California, USA|1 2|Yes|Goddess Severa|A|6' 5"|180|12.5|California, USA|3 3|Yes|Angel (Riptide) Orsini|A|5' 6"|155|?|Florida, USA|2 ... ... ... ... 173|No|Billyon|A|5' 7"|130|?|USA|162 174|Yes|Venus DeLight|A|5' 4"|130|?|Minnesota, USA|163 175|No|Cheryl Rusa|R|5' 1"|100|?|California, USA|164 [/table]
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#759
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
Zweig:
Thank you for the template I will use it from now on. That was a really nice thing you did! Perhaps you and the other administrators along with some knowledgeable other members would like to form a panel that would add or subtract women from my list and create a new list that is not so subjective (as one of the other members has suggested). I would be happy to volunteer my time to tally all of the list change suggestions from all of the panel members. Maybe we could start a thread specifically to post the new list created by the panel and update the list every two months. The general membership then would be given the opportunity to comment on the posted choices. Their comments would be seriously considered for future rating updates. Also, members could post past and future match results – who beat who – from videotapes in their collections so we can be sure that we are fairly correct in rating one woman fetish wrestler over another. Also, the many session wrestler members of this forum who have grappled with a lot of the women can give rating suggestions based on their past encounters with the ladies – who’s the strongest, who’s fastest, who has the most stamina, etc. I really would like to have a list that is as complete and as arguably accurate as possible. I do not need to have my name on it. My ego is not that big. We could call the new list the “Male-vs.-Female-Dot-Org Official All Time Top Female Fetish Wrestler List” or something like that. |
#760
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Re: CFNM or CFNF Wrestling
cigar4u, I love statistics, lists, categorization, generally speaking. So, my answer is yes. I always found your lists fascinating, not because I agree with them 100% (they are always subjective of course), and honestly, ballbusting and CFNM are not my things, which was always an important part of the fetish for you, as I can understand, but because I know how much work goes into this, and how much passion is at work here.
OK, if we are doing it site-wide... I think as a first step we should define what attributes / properties affect the rank of an individual. By this we will also define what list we are making. I think we should not focus on any single attribute, like skill, since I don't really think it will be interesting to make or read the list. We should choose several attributes which will all affect the rankings, some more than others of course. You have already done this in the ballbusting / skill level list. What we are lacking I think is true evaluation, via assigning numbers to these attributes. To make it as little subjective as possible, we can take input from forum members, just as you suggested. Firstly, we simply prepare a list of names. Then create a poll. Then we can go in two directions. One - we choose a group of users and ask them to vote in a poll, where they would assign numeric values to each of the attributes of each of the presented wrestlers. Or two - we make the poll public and take everybody's input. What do you think would work better? If we are creating a list called Top 100 Fetish Wrestlers of All-Time, here are the attributes that I suggest: Attribute 1: Input to the development of the scene. Importance value: 10 Attribute 2: Skill level (p4p, hence size doesn't matter). Importance value: 8 Attribute 3: Looks / attractiveness: Importance value: 6 I think we should experiment with importance value, and see what suits the list best. I suggest 10 point system for the attributes. For example, here's a list of just two wrestlers, and an example user votes: Wrestler A Attribute 1: user voted 8 Attribute 2: user voted 8 Attribute 3: user voted 6 Wrestler B Attribute 1: user voted 6 Attribute 2: user voted 7 Attribute 3: user voted 10 Overall numeric value of Wrestler A: 8x10 + 8x8 + 6x6 = 180 Overall numeric value of Wrestler B: 6x10 + 7x8 + 10x6 = 176 Final List: Rank 1: Wrestler A, with 180 points Rank 2: Wrestler B, with 176 points
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