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View Poll Results: Who will win?
VeVe Lane 30 46.15%
Sheena 32 49.23%
A draw 3 4.62%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 13-Jan-19, 23:22
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

The context of the match if of course specific...Sheena was still in Europe a few days ago, she also filmed other videos this weekend while VeVe was busy with production tasks.
So the match will be "the truth of the moment".

And the video link is already here : [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Last edited by Maitsek; 14-Jan-19 at 00:01.
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  #12  
Old 14-Jan-19, 00:11
mermao mermao is offline
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

It's out - has anyone else seen it? (SPOILER ALERT!) The two rounds go to a draw since neither of the ladies can gain a submission. Then it's decided by a two out of three arm wrestle which Sheena wins fairly easily. Size matters as the much bigger Sheena is on the offensive most of the time, but VeVe pulls off some impressive escapes. All in all, well worth watching. But I have some questions about the rules.

1. Is a round automatically considered a draw if there is no submission or how is it decided?

2. When is a fighter allowed to get to her feet since the match starts in kneeling position but there are brief moments when one fighter or the other is on her feet?

3. Apparently no strikes are permitted and sensitive body parts are off limits. Are there any other formal or informal rules on what is allowed or not during the fight?

Inquiring minds want to know. But all in all a great video for anyone who likes competitive wrestling.
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  #13  
Old 14-Jan-19, 01:06
a1275a a1275a is offline
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

(Spoliler Alert) Sounds like it should of been a points win for one of the fighters by 2-0 rounds. Or by whatever the score would of been for the girl that was mostly in dominate position.Im not sure how the scoring system works in a Bjj grappling match.

It sound s like it was an amazing match.

Last edited by a1275a; 14-Jan-19 at 01:24.
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  #14  
Old 14-Jan-19, 01:15
Hendrix Hendrix is offline
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

Quote:
Originally Posted by mermao [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It's out - has anyone else seen it? (SPOILER ALERT!) The two rounds go to a draw since neither of the ladies can gain a submission. Then it's decided by a two out of three arm wrestle which Sheena wins fairly easily. Size matters as the much bigger Sheena is on the offensive most of the time, but VeVe pulls off some impressive escapes. All in all, well worth watching. But I have some questions about the rules.

1. Is a round automatically considered a draw if there is no submission or how is it decided?

2. When is a fighter allowed to get to her feet since the match starts in kneeling position but there are brief moments when one fighter or the other is on her feet?

3. Apparently no strikes are permitted and sensitive body parts are off limits. Are there any other formal or informal rules on what is allowed or not during the fight?

Inquiring minds want to know. But all in all a great video for anyone who likes competitive wrestling.
What surpised you more in the fight?
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  #15  
Old 14-Jan-19, 01:37
ricky-8- ricky-8- is offline
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

Wow. I'm impressed by Sheena. She must've gotten better.

As for armwrestling, that was expected. Sheena is much stronger.
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  #16  
Old 14-Jan-19, 02:30
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DiabloNYC DiabloNYC is offline
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

Quote:
Originally Posted by mermao [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
But I have some questions about the rules.

1. Is a round automatically considered a draw if there is no submission or how is it decided?

2. When is a fighter allowed to get to her feet since the match starts in kneeling position but there are brief moments when one fighter or the other is on her feet?

3. Apparently no strikes are permitted and sensitive body parts are off limits. Are there any other formal or informal rules on what is allowed or not during the fight?

Inquiring minds want to know. But all in all a great video for anyone who likes competitive wrestling.
Ah, hello. As I was the producer of the video, I can answer your questions regarding the rules:

1. As with the vast majority of our submission wrestling matches (excluding special requests), official points for a match as a whole are counted by submissions (ex: 1 submission = 1 point, etc). However, if no submissions can be obtained in regulation time, a tie breaker will take place. The form of the tie breaker is agree upon by the participants. If the competitors refuse to do a tie breaker of any sort, then spectator judges will decide the match based on submission attempts and positions of dominance. In recent years, we have decided we must always declare a winner (barring rare circumstances).

2. A fighter can get to her feet at any time she chooses. If a fighter chooses to start in a kneeling / ground position, that is entirely her individual choice.

3. No striking is permitted in a submission wrestling match.

Regarding rules, generally: We always use the following rules (unless special custom requests call for other rules), which follow general mainstream submission grappling rules. Specifically, we tend to follow NAGA no-gi adult expert rules, with the exception of the scoring system: as mentioned above, we only score completed submissions, and matches do not end upon a completed submission.

As in mainstream submission grappling:

No striking or slamming is permitted. No small joint manipulation is permitted (individual fingers or individual toes). No fishhooking, no attacks to the eyes, no squeezing of the wind point between thumb and fingers (a.k.a no grabbing the trachea)

This match followed our general rules for permitted submissions: Submissions can be achieved by chokes, or joint locks to any joint other than small digits (individual fingers and individual toes), or compression holds (ex: biceps slicers, calf slicer). For instance, competitors may joint lock: wrists, elbows, shoulders, hips, knees, ankles, spine, neck (neck crank).

I hope that helps!
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  #17  
Old 14-Jan-19, 03:38
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

What a match! Two of the best going at it! Also, great video quality, D! Thank you all for making this happen!

!SPOILER ALERT!

VeVe and Sheena are absolutely fantastic, giving it their all, not holding back, both when in defense, as well as looking for every opportunity to attack.

I expected this outcome. Both fighters are too good to make significant mistakes. I'd say if repeated 5 times, it is highly likely that the majority of the matches will go 0-0. Such fights, in my opinion, should be judged based on control time and submission attempts. Generally, I would like to see more studios judge tied matches. It is, however, unfair to judge this fight post-fight, as both of the wrestlers fought to the defined ruleset. Changing the ruleset would change how they approach and what they do in the match.

I have to say I was happy that this was a submissions-only match, since this favors the BJJ specialist. Considering Sheena is going in with an 8 kg (18 lb) advantage, this makes the fight a bit more fair in my opinion. Not that Sheena would be able to pin VeVe down successfully, but Sheena has very effective, smothering top control, and if she went for it more often hoping to score, this could possibly affect the outcome.

Sheena:
What a performance! Sheena was in control the vast majority of the time. But this is expected from a world-class Judoka, as well as a trained freestyle wrestler. Also, her endurance is out of this world. It felt like she could easily go 2 more rounds. A draw against VeVe is a great achievement. It is also a statement, that Sheena has arrived!

VeVe:
I was in awe of how VeVe was able to escape Sheena's kesa-gatames several times. That hold is a nightmare to get out of. She was also able to defend all submissions and even get some attempts of her own against a bigger opponent who has spent her entire life on the mats. Not that it wasn't expected from VeVe. She is rightly the Queen of the underground wrestling world, and she still is after this draw. You have to beat the Queen to become the Queen, and Sheena was unable to do it. We are all incredibly lucky to have VeVe!

Overall, an amazing match! I can't wait for part II!
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  #18  
Old 14-Jan-19, 03:56
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

Just to note, we did also film a 10-minute pins-only match by custom request for VeVe vs Sheena as well. (3-count pins)
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  #19  
Old 14-Jan-19, 04:42
ricky-8- ricky-8- is offline
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

I don't know why you insist on saying it was a draw, Zweig. From Diablo's post, both wrestlers agreed on the armwrestling tie breaker.

Added after 20 minutes:

I just would like to add one more thing. I don't like the idea of deciding the winner by points, advantage or control time. We don't want to turn these wrestling matches into bjj or grappling fights where a lot of fighters focus on getting points instead of going for submissions. Plus, a lot of wrestling matches are between experts (brown or black belts) and white or blue belts or girls with no formal training. So, even when they don't get submissions, they're gonna control the match anyway.

The best tie breaker in my opinion is sudden death (first submission wins), but that could take a long time which might make the match a bit boring.

Last edited by ricky-8-; 14-Jan-19 at 04:42.
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  #20  
Old 14-Jan-19, 05:31
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Default Re: VeVe Lane Vs Sheena

Nice one! Knowing the result makes me want to buy the video even more and I will do so later today.
(I hope that other producers follow this path of not hiding the result ). Also kudos for the producers for releasing it so fast. I’m very proud of both grapplers.

I also like the submission only rules as it makes the fights more sexy (not diminishing from the sport value which is high) and easy on the eyes, a fight of points can make it look like an Olympic wrestling or Judo fight= Boring, with most people not knowing what’s going on.
That is also what makes nowadays MMA so successful. A submission is like a Goal in soccer, everybody knows that it happens.
And also I wouldn’t want to see striking or knockouts in these type of match, it’s not worth it from the girls perspective.


For me it is a draw. The Armwrestling tiebreaker is a gimmick, VeVe had no chance in the first place. Also seems like the wisdom of the crowd was spot on this time!

Last edited by Royh; 14-Jan-19 at 05:36.
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