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  #11  
Old 28-Nov-18, 10:34
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andithsmith andithsmith is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

For me, the humiliation part is the main draw to stories about young/small girls beating bigger/older men. Obviously, any aspect of sexualisation of young girls is wrong, and when i read stories with young girls, it is not to fulfill any sexual fetish, but to fulfill the humiliation elements of this fetish.

I have written various stories, some which I have not posted on here. most are between two adults/ older teens etc. However i do sometimes write a bit about kids beating up older men. These stories are written in the context of a larger story (such as my global takeover day series), making the girls young, makes them appear smaller and weaker, so that when they beat up the older man, it is much more embarrassing. I use it as a tool to emphasis the disparity in strength in my non realistic stories. so that when you read later on about an adult woman fighting an adult man, you know that she will destroy him, because the previous story of a man losing to a little girl has set the rules of that universe.

As I have grown older, I have deleted or changed some of my stories as I have grown beyond the age of those characters. For instance when i was a teenager at secondary school, my stories would focus on school, and teenage boys and girls, including sexual elements to them. Now that I am older, I no longer find them tasteful as these characters are too young for me now, but acceptable to 15ish year old me when i wrote them. Probably in twenty or thirty years, i will feel uncomfy reading or writing about 20 year olds.
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  #12  
Old 28-Nov-18, 20:29
Zeus28 Zeus28 is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

Personally, I think something is immoral if it harms or has the potential to harm a real person. What happens in a horror movie, for instance, would be horrific and evil if it happened in real life, but that doesn't mean that it is immoral to enjoy it as fiction.
  #13  
Old 28-Nov-18, 20:45
Da best Da best is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

For me personally the sort of mum-son domination with scissors and sitting is more of a theoretical fantasy. As in I like to see that stuff in stories like what I write, but I wouldn't want that kinda stuff with my real family
  #14  
Old 02-Dec-18, 22:18
RNC RNC is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

If it was up to me, any content (videos, pictures, stories) involving children would not be allowed. It is too close to pedophilia.

Exposure to 'fetish material' can:
  • strengthen weak fetishes, and
  • create fetishes that didn't exist beforehand.

The stronger a fetish is, the more likely its holder is to act on it. Therefore, in my view, allowing this content makes it more likely that children in the real world will be exploited/abused.

The "it's only a fantasy" argument holds no sway for me. I agree that in the vast majority of cases, it is only a fantasy. However, if allowing this content makes it even marginally more likely that a real life child will be abused - this should be enough to ban the content.

Maybe we can't say for sure that exposure to fetish material can strengthen fetishes. Maybe we can't say for sure that stronger fetishes are more likely to be acted on. But to me it seems far wiser to err on the side of caution when the stakes are so high.
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Old 03-Dec-18, 00:39
Mr. Purple Mr. Purple is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

I respectfully come to the opposite conclusion of RNC.

There's a big difference between video/pictures and stories. In the former, real children could be getting exploited in the production. In the latter, that's not so. The courts have recognized this, which is why you'll be going up river if you have pics of naked children on your computer but not if you just have stories involving them.

Now, if there were actual evidence that reading these kind of stories could cause more children to be exploited, I'd agree that banning them would be correct, but otherwise, I'm not willing to give up first amendment rights just to err on the side of caution.

As an interesting aside, I'm also a little skeptical that the kind of stories on this site involving minors, even the explicit ones, would ever encourage the fans of those stories to participate in child porn. In child porn, the adult is the predator, in most of these stories, the adult is the victim.
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  #16  
Old 03-Dec-18, 07:14
RNC RNC is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Purple [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I respectfully come to the opposite conclusion of RNC.

There's a big difference between video/pictures and stories. In the former, real children could be getting exploited in the production. In the latter, that's not so. The courts have recognized this, which is why you'll be going up river if you have pics of naked children on your computer but not if you just have stories involving them.

Now, if there were actual evidence that reading these kind of stories could cause more children to be exploited, I'd agree that banning them would be correct, but otherwise, I'm not willing to give up first amendment rights just to err on the side of caution.

As an interesting aside, I'm also a little skeptical that the kind of stories on this site involving minors, even the explicit ones, would ever encourage the fans of those stories to participate in child porn. In child porn, the adult is the predator, in most of these stories, the adult is the victim.
You make some good points Mr Purple.

I completely agree that there is a big difference between fictional stories and real life pictures/videos. And TBH I am a lot more uncomfortable with the real life pictures/videos than the stories. I am still be against the stories (as I do think that they make it marginally more likely for a real life minor to be harmed) but I am more strongly against the real life pictures & videos.

I think a better way to gauge whether or not something is moral, rather than ask if it is legal according to the courts, is to ask questions like:
  • "Would I like pictures of my daughter to be posted on a fetish site?"
  • "What would the girl, or parents or the girl, say if we asked their permission before posting pictures/videos of their children onto this fetish site? Would they give us their approval?"

Your "interesting aside" does hold some sway with me. As you note, the vast majority of content on this site involves the adult (or the male) being the victim. It certainly harder to act on a fetish in which you are the victim than one in which you are the perpetrator - which makes these fetishes less likely to be acted on than other fetishes. However, it is not impossible to manufacture situations in which a minor is unknowingly fulfilling an adult's fetish to be the victim - but it is a lot harder to do than the reverse would be. For me personally, this is the best argument in favour of allowing the content.

However, as anything sexual involving minors is so taboo (and for the points made in my previous post), I still come down on the side of 'ban all content involving minors'. I do recognise though that this is a grey rather than a black-and-white issue.
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  #17  
Old 03-Dec-18, 09:03
Zeus28 Zeus28 is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

I tend to agree with Mr Purple. Having said that, it is entirely up to Zweig as administrator of this site to set the rules as to what content is or is not allowed on this site. Anyone who disagrees can find a different site (for instance "asstr"). I think we all agree that any material that involves the sexualization of real children is abhorrent, and I would be the first to inform the authorities if I saw such material on the internet.
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  #18  
Old 03-Dec-18, 10:20
RNC RNC is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

I wonder if the fact that we enjoy this material (and, therefore, benefit from it being allowed) clouds our judgment as to whether or not it should be allowed.

If the general public were given an accurate description of the material involving minors on this site and polled as to whether or not the content should be banned, I suspect they would choose to ban the material (just a guess - maybe they wouldn't). I suspect that a poll of users of this site (vested interest) would give a very different result to a poll of the general public (no vested interest).

On the other hand, banning it from here may drive people to other more extreme sites. I don't know what the right answer is. I can definitely relate to the OP's concerns though.
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  #19  
Old 03-Dec-18, 12:24
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mixfightor mixfightor is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

I live in Australia. Most of us here acknowledge our country is something of a "Nanny State", in that our government and other special interest groups legislate and ban things that they deem unacceptable. It really annoys me.

i do not understand the modern pc obsession with not liking something and then trying to have it utterly removed from existence. "It offends me so I will eradicate it so it cannot offend anybody else." Religious groups do it a lot. Parents try to get games and media destroyed because they don't trust their kids to be able to use their own critical reasoning to decide for themselves whether to look at it or not. They ban tv shows and try to censor comedians. I don't know why they feel their personal preferences are some kind of universal compass to which we should all defer.

Even in this particular argument some of the people arguing against these stories admit that they are fictitious and no actual person is being hurt by it, but still, they don't like it and they want it gone.

Please, if you don't like it, just don't read it.

Today we are discussing kids beating up adults being wrong, but if that gets banned, why stop there? What if someone doesn't like fighting stories that involve somebody being killed? Snuff stories.... Yeah, ban them too. Oh, and that story had a guy beating up a girl. I don't like violence against women. That should go too. You know, some of these stories involve women with big muscles and I don't find that attractive. Better get rid of that genre as well.

My point is that we all have things we don't enjoy. My turn offs should not stop somebody else reading something that they like, though. Say somebody enjoys reading about a young kid beating up somebody because it reminds them of when they were themselves young and felt empowered or emasculated. We are all adults on here. We have to be to register for the forum. Please let other adults use their own critical thinking to decide if they want to read a particular story or not.

Sorry if that came across as preachy. I love this place.
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  #20  
Old 03-Dec-18, 13:16
Zeus28 Zeus28 is offline
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Default Re: Something I never understood..

As a fellow Australian, I was thinking along exactly the same line as mixfighter. I'm sure there are many people who would want this entire site banned if they knew about it. In fact, I once met someone who believed that any fiction should be illegal if it involved a character committing an illegal act; for instance, he believed that all murder mysteries should be banned, since they might cause the readers to go out and commit a murder in real life! We agreed to disagree.
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