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Old 15-Nov-18, 16:18
greezy greezy is offline
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Default Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

I just recently had my first ever session, which is also the time I have ever experienced “real” scissors applied with the intention of tapping me out. I went in expecting to be submitted easily for a number of reasons: I am skinny, my neck is easily accessible, I did not know what my tolerance would be, From most accounts I have read/seen that it does not take a great deal of strength to tap someone with a headscissor (and she is plenty strong I assure you).

So when she locked on that first headscissor (it was a front scissor with me facing her body) I braced myself for the pain. At first her thighs felt very soft and cool to the touch on my neck. She started squeezing and it got very tight with the pressure almost totally concentrated on my neck but never reached a level where the pain was too intense or I felt like a KO was coming. She seemed as surprised as I was at this result and then went immediately to a reverse headscissor which was more powerful but again not enough pain and I did not feel close to KO. She was really surprised by this and said that most guys tap very quickly in her reverse. She has done KO’s before and later on at one point while she was squeezing me in another reverse she said “this is where they usually convulse and go out”.

We tried several headscissors at different points in the session and at times I could feel her inner thighs really digging in to my neck, and once I am fairly certain that she went to 100% squeeze on me and I felt that sensation of pressure building in my head that a lot of you guys have described but she could only hold that level of pressure for a short time and I never felt close to KO.

So my question is why did this happen? I don’t believe that I am some sort of freak who is immune to chokes. I also don’t believe that she wasn’t strong enough or that she was applying bad technique. So I ask you headscissor veterans out there what might have caused this?

Could it be that my skinny neck makes it more difficult to cut off the blood flow?

I have been known to have a high tolerance for certain types of pain so maybe that explains the no tapping?

Is it possible that I have a strong neck making me more resistant to headScissors/chokes ?

Are there any other possibilities that might cause this to happen?

I am particularly interested in the experiences of other skinny guys but any insight on this would be appreciated.
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  #2  
Old 15-Nov-18, 19:56
jpjax jpjax is offline
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

First guess is you’re too skinny, but who knows.

Who was the girl?
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Old 15-Nov-18, 22:51
Jwo321 Jwo321 is offline
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

Did you get her to try any other holds ... like rnc or guillotine ? Perhaps those could really place pressure on the neck sides or even across the trachea and for sure you should be tapping or going out
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Old 15-Nov-18, 23:03
greezy greezy is offline
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwo321 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Did you get her to try any other holds ... like rnc or guillotine ? Perhaps those could really place pressure on the neck sides or even across the trachea and for sure you should be tapping or going out
The girl was Karly Salinas. She did guillotines, RNC’s, and even a forearm choke on me. I tapped out to all of those holds. It seems that the holds that put pressure on the trachea/Adams apple area were more effective than the ones that put pressure on the sides of my neck. They didn’t make me feel like I was going out, but getting my throat destroyed wasn’t fun for very long.
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Old 15-Nov-18, 23:26
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by greezy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The girl was Karly Salinas. She did guillotines, RNC’s, and even a forearm choke on me. I tapped out to all of those holds. It seems that the holds that put pressure on the trachea/Adams apple area were more effective than the ones that put pressure on the sides of my neck. They didn’t make me feel like I was going out, but getting my throat destroyed wasn’t fun for very long.
Without question, the adams apple is more sensitive and most women have enough strength to block air-flow with a proper choke.

The head-scissor is, if you think about it, an unusual hold, the legs are generally bigger than the neck, so it's not always a neat fit, it's often spread out. That said, the average session lady probably squeezes with over 200 lbs and most guys can't take that. Skinny neck could play a role, or maybe it's other things like the placement of your muscles and bone structure gives you a natural resistance, or maybe the lady had an off day cause she did legs in the gym the day before. I almost always tap from the pain, but if you were enjoying your first head-scissor, maybe the pain was kind of fun.

just throwing ideas out there. I'm not sure you'll get a precise answer, but maybe there are other guys here who've experienced that.
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Old 15-Nov-18, 23:26
Jwo321 Jwo321 is offline
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

I agree those trachea holds look great but are in no way a joy to experience . Karly isn't too curvy is she? There was a tread on here that talked about different leg sizes and which were more painful ... and the curvy more heavier girls can't seem to get a good vice around the neck like a skinnier woman can. Perhaps if you session again try a more skinnier woman with less cushion for the big squeeze.
Regardless karly is a beauty so lucky you either way!
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Old 15-Nov-18, 23:34
greezy greezy is offline
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

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Originally Posted by LicensetoKill [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Without question, the adams apple is more sensitive and most women have enough strength to block air-flow with a proper choke.

The head-scissor is, if you think about it, an unusual hold, the legs are generally bigger than the neck, so it's not always a neat fit, it's often spread out. That said, the average session lady probably squeezes with over 200 lbs and most guys can't take that. Skinny neck could play a role, or maybe it's other things like the placement of your muscles and bone structure gives you a natural resistance, or maybe the lady had an off day cause she did legs in the gym the day before. I almost always tap from the pain, but if you were enjoying your first head-scissor, maybe the pain was kind of fun.

just throwing ideas out there. I'm not sure you'll get a precise answer, but maybe there are other guys here who've experienced that.
Thank you. I am just looking for possible causes anyway. It was odd to me that the pressure was almost totally on my neck and was a lot of pressure but not really that painful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwo321 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I agree those trachea holds look great but are in no way a joy to experience . Karly isn't too curvy is she? There was a tread on here that talked about different leg sizes and which were more painful ... and the curvy more heavier girls can't seem to get a good vice around the neck like a skinnier woman can. Perhaps if you session again try a more skinnier woman with less cushion for the big squeeze.
Regardless karly is a beauty so lucky you either way!
Karly is not tiny skinny but her legs fit my my neck nicely. I felt almost no pressure on my jaw at all. Come to think of it if she had squeezed my jaw with the same force that she squeezed my neck I may have tapped out.
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Old 15-Nov-18, 23:56
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Royh Royh is offline
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

I’ve never met Karly , but it seems like she didn’t perfect her holds yet. Most of the skilled wrestlers do not even try to target the Adam’s apple, and none of the mentioned holds should put pressure on the tranchea, and if this happens, it usually indicates bad technique and it can be potentially dangerous. Try another session, with an accomplished wrestler.
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Old 16-Nov-18, 00:55
greezy greezy is offline
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

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Originally Posted by Royh [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I’ve never met Karly , but it seems like she didn’t perfect her holds yet. Most of the skilled wrestlers do not even try to target the Adam’s apple, and none of the mentioned holds should put pressure on the tranchea, and if this happens, it usually indicates bad technique and it can be potentially dangerous. Try another session, with an accomplished wrestler.
I agree that her technique was not correct. She is only just beginning in juijitsu training. My main question is concerning the headscissors and why I didn’t get that tap or nap feeling, especially in the reverse.
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Old 16-Nov-18, 06:53
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Default Re: Headscissor fail (How could this happen?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by greezy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Karly is not tiny skinny but her legs fit my my neck nicely. I felt almost no pressure on my jaw at all. Come to think of it if she had squeezed my jaw with the same force that she squeezed my neck I may have tapped out.
Others can offer their opinions on this as well, but I think a properly applied headscissor (which is really a neck scissor), doesn't put pressure on the jaw. If it's at an angle it can and I hated that the one time I felt my jaw was getting most of the head-scissor pressure. It wasn't even pressure, which would have been much less painful, but one side of my jaw was getting a lot more pressing, kind of pushing it to the side. It was no fun at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greezy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I agree that her technique was not correct. She is only just beginning in juijitsu training. My main question is concerning the headscissors and why I didn’t get that tap or nap feeling, especially in the reverse.
I just want to add, for a proper study into this problem, you should try with another lady or two and see what happens. I'm not sure what your financial situation is. I realize it can get expensive.
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