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  #11  
Old 08-Aug-17, 14:52
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

I didn't mean to sound condescending at all but I understand that on internet forums things often sound differently than how they're actually meant so I apologize if I insulted anyone or anything.

I was just trying to explain certain technical things Cyborg uses, it wasn't my intention to offend anybody.
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  #12  
Old 08-Aug-17, 20:40
gemini3d gemini3d is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

To me Cyborg is like Overeem, she was almost unbeatable with the steroids. I will say what both are good fighters, but there strength a lot of help in steroids, made them both at one point almost unbeatable. Nobody is unbeatable, the right hit, the wrong move can cost anyone, but steroid strength you can make certain mistakes you couldn't without it. Anyway, Overeem when busted and banned the year, was the most feared fighter on the planet. Back to Cyborg, I don't root for her because of being busted twice, 2nd one they gave an excuse and they ok'd it, not many fans did. She can take a punch and has heart, that steroids does not give you heart, and she really has it. (I am saying in the ring, not in the real world .
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  #13  
Old 09-Aug-17, 04:01
Rated G Rated G is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

Exactly. She's a fighter. But I can't root for her, I can't root for Reem, and I can't root for Belfort either.
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  #14  
Old 16-Aug-17, 13:16
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jiminy jiminy is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

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Originally Posted by al89 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Cyborg is the GOAT of WMMA IMO.
The problem with that is when people talk about who the GOAT is, the first thing that's often asked is "who have they beaten".

...And who is the best fighter Cyborg has beaten? Coenen? Carano?

It would go a long way if she could beat a top Bantamweight, rather than just a lower tier girl desperate for a payday. And with all due respect to Tonya, that's all she is.

Level of competition is everything in this game.
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  #15  
Old 16-Aug-17, 20:21
brooksie brooksie is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The problem with that is when people talk about who the GOAT is, the first thing that's often asked is "who have they beaten".

...And who is the best fighter Cyborg has beaten? Coenen? Carano?

It would go a long way if she could beat a top Bantamweight, rather than just a lower tier girl desperate for a payday. And with all due respect to Tonya, that's all she is.

Level of competition is everything in this game.
I think the UFC bears a lot of the blame for that. They haven't provided that level of competition for her. Even now, where are the other featherweights? Are they making this division or not? So far, we've got Holly Holm and Megan Anderson as potential fights. Holly is arguably a featherweight, having fought once at that weight and several times at a similar weight in boxing and Anderson is, of course, the former Invicta FW champ. But would a win over those two do anything to change this "she hasn't beaten anyone good" narrative we often see levelled as a criticism against her? I don't know.

As for beating a top bantamweight, that's not her division, she couldn't make the weight and no top bantamweights wanted to move up in weight to fight her. I hope the UFC is currently beating the bushes looking for talented 145's and can find challenging fights for Cyborg but it's not really up to her. She only has the option of taking the fights that are offered to her.
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  #16  
Old 16-Aug-17, 22:09
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The problem with that is when people talk about who the GOAT is, the first thing that's often asked is "who have they beaten".

...And who is the best fighter Cyborg has beaten? Coenen? Carano?

It would go a long way if she could beat a top Bantamweight, rather than just a lower tier girl desperate for a payday. And with all due respect to Tonya, that's all she is.

Level of competition is everything in this game.
I think when discussing about the GOAT of combat sports the heavier fighters should always get the nod. I get that P4P it's useful but at the end of the day it's still a fantasy. Muhammad Ali is generally regarded the boxing GOAT because he was a heavyweight even though you can easily argue that there were plenty lighter boxers who were more skilled and technical, but HW division is simply the most glamorous one and gets the most respect. In wrestling you always hear about Karelin. In judo, the biggest star right now is Teddy Riner (another huge monster). In (male) MMA it's either Fedor or Jon Jones.

Cyborg is so far the best big girl in MMA, she passes the eye test as far as skills are concerned and I do believe that you should get some points if other fighters are obviously ducking you.

That's just my personal opinion though, I can understand why people think otherwise and those opinions make sense in their own way as well. For me personally though I think the heavier fighters should get more respect over the smaller ones. The heavier fighters are the best fighting specimens with the best genetics. Like I said, I respect if people have other criteria though.
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  #17  
Old 16-Aug-17, 23:42
Tomas666 Tomas666 is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

Big fan of women's mma. But Cyborg is too roided for anyone to appreciate her as a female fighter. She does seem like a nice person and she is a great athlete but really she should not fight against women.

Sorry if that is offensive to some but if roids makes a big difference in men's sport then it makes a huge difference in women's sports.

UFC should NEVER let anyone even suspected of doing steroids at any time compete in UFC. This is the downfall of the sport I am sorry to say.
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  #18  
Old 17-Aug-17, 18:53
brooksie brooksie is offline
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Default Re: 145s conversation

For the alternative view:

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Here's maybe the most relevant part:

"This hypocritical attitude gets even uglier as it trickles down to the fan level. Three years and six definitive victories into Cyborg’s redemption, it’s still impossible to write or post anything about her on the internet without a flood of comments about steroids and some ridiculously clever and in no way tired observations on her ostensibly masculine appearance."
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  #19  
Old 19-Aug-17, 04:18
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Default Re: 145s conversation

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
a lower tier girl desperate for a payday. And with all due respect to Tonya, that's all she is.
C'mon, man. "Desperate for a payday"? She may not be an exceptional talent, but she took a fight on very short notice against a woman that many fans consider to be one of the toughest fighters in the world and Cyborg has the resumé to back up that assertion. Of course Tonya was excited to get the call from the UFC, but she took the fight that no one else would take and lasted longer than Ronda did in her last 2 fights combined.
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  #20  
Old 20-Aug-17, 18:59
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Default Re: 145s conversation

@[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] , @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Sorry for the late reply fellas; been really busy at work this week doing 12 hour shifts.

I would say that Muhammad Ali's status epitomises the phrase "a great champion needs a great challenger". Among others, Liston, Frazier, Norton and Foreman were all greats in their own right. That’s largely why he’s considered the greatest over guys from different eras who either had better statistical records or were bigger men with better attributes like Lennox Lewis. But they didn’t beat the level of competition Ali did.

I like and respect Cyborg, but the landscape can change dramatically within a short space of time and the fans / media are very fickle. Ronda's rise and fall is testament to that.

Getting higher ranked BW girls or bonafide FWs to fight her is not her job, but the fact remains that she has only been beating lower tier fighters recently. Someone like Holm would be a completely different challenge and how Cyborg deals with that remains to be seen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
C'mon, man. "Desperate for a payday"? She may not be an exceptional talent, but she took a fight on very short notice against a woman that many fans consider to be one of the toughest fighters in the world and Cyborg has the resumé to back up that assertion. Of course Tonya was excited to get the call from the UFC, but she took the fight that no one else would take and lasted longer than Ronda did in her last 2 fights combined.
Fair play to her for taking the fight on short notice so that the title match didn't fall by the wayside. I do salute her for that.
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