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  #11  
Old 04-Jul-18, 12:46
The Corner Man The Corner Man is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

I tend to not use the term "always" in this type of discussion, but just my opinion.

However, let's take a look at some real statistics that speak for themselves:

Why is it that women and men do not have the same type of records? I know the first thought is "pound for pound" or some type of size comparison, but those things as simply not considered in many events in sports. For example, when is the last time they categorized the 100 meters in track & field using height & weight? Of course in this case strength doesn't equal speed, but it is obviously tied to speed. Women's records are nowhere close in these type of events.

Just food for thought...
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  #12  
Old 04-Jul-18, 16:50
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Corner Man [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I tend to not use the term "always" in this type of discussion, but just my opinion.

However, let's take a look at some real statistics that speak for themselves:

Why is it that women and men do not have the same type of records? I know the first thought is "pound for pound" or some type of size comparison, but those things as simply not considered in many events in sports. For example, when is the last time they categorized the 100 meters in track & field using height & weight? Of course in this case strength doesn't equal speed, but it is obviously tied to speed. Women's records are nowhere close in these type of events.

Just food for thought...
Not really. Athletic "records" are held by elite physical specimens, not by regular people. The top 100 female sprinters in the world are probably going to outrun 95% of males their age and 99% of all males between 17-50 years old. But not a single one of the top 100 female sprinters will even be competitive with the top 100 male sprinters. For this conversation, I'm only speaking XX vs XY, not including intersexed or transgendered athletes.

Let's go to the records page of the International Powerlifting Federation and look at "equipped" records for the bench press. The men's record is 910 lbs, the women's record is 504 lbs. The bodyweight of the male was 379 lbs, the woman 286 lbs. The male benched 2.4x his bodyweight, while the woman lifted 1.76x her bodyweight. Throwing out every other factor besides bodyweight (a better formula would be much more complicated), in a lb-for-lb comparison, the male is 36% stronger than the woman.

But the earlier-referenced BBC article stated than a man's upper-body strength is 40% greater than a woman's. So, if an elite female strength athlete squeezes that 40% difference down to 36%, is she just an amazing, high-testosterone outlier, or do women - generally - possess a higher capacity for strength than is generally "believed"?

It's "realistic", of course, "for a woman to be stronger than a man", but I hold that it's likely more common than people think. It makes no sense to compare gym lifts, because so few people do and because they translate so poorly to real-world strength. But they do give us real numbers to work with and compare, so there is some probative value.

Added after 6 minutes:

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Originally Posted by garcon55 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
considering that this average 5-4 168 lb lady is no athlete, i would say she is more a very fat woman no?
Very fat does not mean "not strong". In fact, I have witnessed multiple "fat girls" putting a male down against his will. In competitive softball, the so-called "fat girls" hit the most home runs.
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  #13  
Old 05-Jul-18, 09:05
redmanx redmanx is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

If we're talking about this in regards to wrestling scenarios then weights have to be considered as, in most cases, men are heavier than women. In pro wrestling some of the men are huge, very athletic and well built, as are some of the women, but even the most buff, fit, athletic woman weighs less than her male equivalent and its no easy job for either sex to deal with an opponent who vastly outweighs them. So strength or power can be nullified by weight. Certainly Ive seen women who I would think twice about upsetting, but they have usually been much bigger than me.
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  #14  
Old 05-Jul-18, 09:08
garcon55 garcon55 is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]


Very fat does not mean "not strong". In fact, I have witnessed multiple "fat girls" putting a male down against his will. In competitive softball, the so-called "fat girls" hit the most home runs.
Do these fat girls from competitive softball represent the average fat 168lbs 5´4´´ woman?

I would say this average woman shouldn´t be able to make a pull up or a push up and would be considerably weaker than a corresponding 168 lbs guy.
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  #15  
Old 05-Jul-18, 11:24
The Corner Man The Corner Man is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Not really. Athletic "records" are held by elite physical specimens, not by regular people. The top 100 female sprinters in the world are probably going to outrun 95% of males their age and 99% of all males between 17-50 years old. But not a single one of the top 100 female sprinters will even be competitive with the top 100 male sprinters. For this conversation, I'm only speaking XX vs XY, not including intersexed or transgendered athletes.

Let's go to the records page of the International Powerlifting Federation and look at "equipped" records for the bench press. The men's record is 910 lbs, the women's record is 504 lbs. The bodyweight of the male was 379 lbs, the woman 286 lbs. The male benched 2.4x his bodyweight, while the woman lifted 1.76x her bodyweight. Throwing out every other factor besides bodyweight (a better formula would be much more complicated), in a lb-for-lb comparison, the male is 36% stronger than the woman.

But the earlier-referenced BBC article stated than a man's upper-body strength is 40% greater than a woman's. So, if an elite female strength athlete squeezes that 40% difference down to 36%, is she just an amazing, high-testosterone outlier, or do women - generally - possess a higher capacity for strength than is generally "believed"?

It's "realistic", of course, "for a woman to be stronger than a man", but I hold that it's likely more common than people think. It makes no sense to compare gym lifts, because so few people do and because they translate so poorly to real-world strength. But they do give us real numbers to work with and compare, so there is some probative value.

Added after 6 minutes:



Very fat does not mean "not strong". In fact, I have witnessed multiple "fat girls" putting a male down against his will. In competitive softball, the so-called "fat girls" hit the most home runs.
My bad, I was speaking more along the lines of high school athletes, not elite athletes. So, why do you think it is more common than people think as your examples refer to "elite" athletes? (Sorry if I'm missing something.) Thanks
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  #16  
Old 05-Jul-18, 19:32
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

I haven't been exercising regularly lately, and I haven't done any strength training in probably three or four years. I'm not naturally athletic to begin with. I don't know about the average man, but there are a good many women out there that are stronger than me, and there are a good many that aren't stronger but could take me in wrestling just with skill or sheer will.
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  #17  
Old 05-Jul-18, 21:18
pinme pinme is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Well, if you look at the study - [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] - and do the math, this thread is only beginning of the discussion.

Of course, men are stronger on average. But, using the mean and sd from this report, and using a normal distribution, you come up with the following:

In upper body strength, the top 5% of women are stronger than the bottom 5% of men, and the top 2% of women are stronger than the bottom 15% of men.

In lower body strength, the top 15% of women are stronger than the bottom 15% of men, and the top 2% of women are stronger than the bottom 25% of men.

In ab strength, the top 25% of women are stronger than the bottom 25% of men, and the top 2% of women and stronger half of all men.

The top 2% of women in the US is about 3 million women. That’s a lot of women stronger than a lot of men.

And some session women are perhaps in the top 2% of the top 2% which is still 60,000 women.

And I can add anecdotally that I am above average on all of the lifts listed in the report, and there are many session women that are much stronger than I am.

Last edited by pinme; 05-Jul-18 at 21:24.
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  #18  
Old 05-Jul-18, 21:48
thenewguy899 thenewguy899 is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Vast majority men are on average stronger than most women, this trend has been closely followed in statistics, see links below

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Combined grip strength by age and sex. Combined grip strength is the sum of the largest isometric grip strength readings from each hand, measured using a handgrip dynamometer. Grip strength is an index of upper body strength. Each point is one person. Sample size = 7064.

Data are from the US National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) 2011-2012:

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NHANES is a representative sample of the US noninstitutionalized civilian resident population of the United States. It utilizes a complex, multistage, probability sampling design. The sizes of the symbols represent the sampling weights.

The grip strength variables are described here:

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All ages > 80 were set to 80 to protect participant anonymity.

Plot was generated using the svyplot and svysmooth functions from the survey package in R.
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  #19  
Old 05-Jul-18, 23:48
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinme [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Well, if you look at the study - [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] - and do the math, this thread is only beginning of the discussion.

Of course, men are stronger on average. But, using the mean and sd from this report, and using a normal distribution, you come up with the following:

In upper body strength, the top 5% of women are stronger than the bottom 5% of men, and the top 2% of women are stronger than the bottom 15% of men.

In lower body strength, the top 15% of women are stronger than the bottom 15% of men, and the top 2% of women are stronger than the bottom 25% of men.

In ab strength, the top 25% of women are stronger than the bottom 25% of men, and the top 2% of women and stronger half of all men.

The top 2% of women in the US is about 3 million women. That’s a lot of women stronger than a lot of men.

And some session women are perhaps in the top 2% of the top 2% which is still 60,000 women.

And I can add anecdotally that I am above average on all of the lifts listed in the report, and there are many session women that are much stronger than I am.

So for every 50 women you ask, one will qualify as stronger.

And how would you propose finding that one in 50?
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  #20  
Old 06-Jul-18, 00:11
pinme pinme is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

wb270 and sessiongirls would be good places to find the 1 in 50. Or in real life, try a serious gym.
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