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  #251  
Old 26-Aug-15, 19:15
psf366 psf366 is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

From Wikipedia: Sexual fetishism or erotic fetishism is a sexual focus on a nonliving object or nongenital body part.

So for all of you out there worried about the word "fetish", it's all a matter of degrees. "Normal" male hetero sexual excitement for "normal" hetero sex can involve excitement derived from a woman's breasts, lips, hair, feet, etc. Obviously, none of those body parts are genital body parts so does that make excitement for them a fetish? No, not if there is some sort of genital interest sexual interest as well. Therefore, if mixed wrestling serves as foreplay for intercourse, it would not be considered a fetish. But if the degree of excitement for wrestling is large enough to detach itself from any interest for anything involving intercourse, it would be considered a fetish.

Or to put it another way, "rough sex" contains a lot of the activities (e.g. overpowering, asphyxiation, domination) which get talked about here as fetishistic activities but are not considered fetishes because they are part of genital intercourse. So what's really the difference? Not much, if you ask me. I'd say every "fetishistic" wrestling session I've ever done looked a whole lot like a man and woman wrestling around while having sex. The only "weird" part was that unlike most men, I was getting turned on by the woman being physically powerful and dominating. If we had fucked at the end, that would've been swell, but without it was pretty swell too.

In the end, "fetish" might just a word.
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  #252  
Old 26-Aug-15, 20:33
Raoul Fulgurex Raoul Fulgurex is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

This is fetishism in the etymological sense of the word (sacred object). Like in a foot fetish or boot fetish. If you want the technical word for what people here are talking about when they are talking about a fetish, it would be "paraphilia".

There seems to be a general agreement among psychologists that paraphilias are perfectly OK, except when one of the following conditions applies :
1) One is unable to cope with one's paraphilia and experiencing serious distress about it (like being both homosexual and religiously bigot).
2) One can't refrain from doing things that are hurtful to others (like paedophilia).
3) One is losing interest in sexual intercourse (like me...)

That means that if you are seeing a psychologist and none of the above applies, he/she should just tell you that you are perfectly fine and don't need any help.
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  #253  
Old 27-Aug-15, 03:08
psf366 psf366 is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raoul Fulgurex [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This is fetishism in the etymological sense of the word (sacred object). Like in a foot fetish or boot fetish. If you want the technical word for what people here are talking about when they are talking about a fetish, it would be "paraphilia".

There seems to be a general agreement among psychologists that paraphilias are perfectly OK, except when one of the following conditions applies :
1) One is unable to cope with one's paraphilia and experiencing serious distress about it (like being both homosexual and religiously bigot).
2) One can't refrain from doing things that are hurtful to others (like paedophilia).
3) One is losing interest in sexual intercourse (like me...)

That means that if you are seeing a psychologist and none of the above applies, he/she should just tell you that you are perfectly fine and don't need any help.
Yes, all quite true. But would you say your loss of interest in sexual intercourse is a natural result of how you feel about women? Or is it more a result of difficulty of finding an appropriate partner? I know for me, the thought of vanilla style sex with a "normally" submissive woman is a turn off (and has become more so the older I've gotten). Compared with that option, I would much prefer a non-sexual mixed wrestling match with a dominant female. However, in a perfect world, I would use mixed wrestling as foreplay to sexual intercourse but unfortunately, that scenario is damn hard to come by.

So I'm wondering how many guys around here wound up with a fetishistic alternative to sexual intercourse because the world didn't give them much of an alternative. Sexual behaviors and identities have a very large social component. In my youthful days before the internet, I honestly thought I was the only guy in the world who liked the idea of having sex with a strong dominant woman. As it was, I think my fetish may have saved my sanity.
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  #254  
Old 30-Aug-15, 17:01
Swingingmoose Swingingmoose is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

Quote:
Originally Posted by psf366 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
That's a very unhappy place for a person to be, especially when you've spend so much time online fueling your sense of self loathing.
First you imagined that I was a virgin who is alarmed and lost because he has these odd wishes and fantasies. Then I corrected you. But you still could not stop imagining things for me.

Does it ruin your theory if I tell you that I have very slight to no self-loathing at all? It bothered me that I have lost so much time going after Internet porn. At the same time I somehow could not understand my yearning for muscular females or fit girls next door. Being bothered, puzzled or uneasy half the time and feeling special the other half is far from self-loathing. I see the quest to understand oneself as an end in itself. I do not need self-loathing to motivate my analysis of my inclinations.
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  #255  
Old 30-Aug-15, 17:25
Swingingmoose Swingingmoose is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

Quote:
Originally Posted by injection7 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It comes as a natural conclusion to me that we all have hardwired in our brain, the woman's reproductive value in a way where physical abilities count the most. Since the beggining of time, mating has been a comparsion of characteristics that influence survivability. A male with good genes, would look for a female with equally good genes to reproduce since this would guarantee the survivability of the offspring.
The woman's reproductive value that is instinctively picked up by males is linked to the width of her hips, the size of her breasts and her subcutaneous fat. It has nothing to do with muscles. More than 99 % of females have enough muscle to produce babies. There is no reason why muscles would be biologically selected for.

A woman fit for reproduction is either young enough or has the bodily and facial features associated with youth. A track athlete or a fitness competitor are "too" muscular for any extra muscle to have any meaning at all.

Physical power equals reproductive success in males. In addition to financial and social power. But even then only up to a point. Never in females. There is no explanatory power in that. There is a simple way to prove that. Just look at all kinds of famous and rich males and draw an average of what kind of wives they have.

I have not studied mixed wrestling as a sport, so I make no claims about that. But when I consider humiliations, beatdowns and extreme forms of domination, i.e. when the male is made to cry or panic, then there is only one original power differential that is modeled in it. I mean the mother-infant relationship.

1. The boy is drawn to safety and understanding that he thinks he will receive from his mother
2. The boy gets turned down, humiliated, rejected, made helpless, manipulated or ignored
3. The boy makes an association between these two in his mind. Now humiliation, rejection and helplessness is the same as being safe and loved.
4. And so it goes. The basic (humiliation, domination) session request can be interpreted as "be like my mother, but this time love, accept and understand me".

Emotions are a learned thing.
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  #256  
Old 30-Aug-15, 18:06
Swingingmoose Swingingmoose is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zweig [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Calling the fetish addictive, presenting it in a negative light, comparing it to cocaine addiction (@[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]) or labeling fetishists as self-centered freaks who do not care about anyone else (@[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]) smells of sexual repression, which is absolutely against the ideas on which this forum was created. So I will ask you to refrain from doing that.
The idea about self-centered freaks has two sources. Even if I didn't call them that. First is from Stoller's books, where the point of sadism and masochism is control. And that is why a true sadist and true masochist do not enjoy each other's company. Their positions are, basically, "do to me whatever you want, just as long as you don't leave me" (masochist) and "I can do to you whatever I want, and still you will not leave me" (sadist).

The sadist needs to control the victim, to feel secure that the victim will not leave him. The masochist needs to control the sadist so that he can find a balance between emotional closeness and "paying" for it in pain. There is no more a "self-centered freak" involved than in someone telling how he wants to be dominated in a session. Of course he has a right to that, since he is the customer. But, you see, demanding an ordinary wife or girlfriend, who is not into this, to dominate someone, would be "self-centered" and "freaky".

I think it is just a simple fact. I see no repression in saying it aloud. "A fetishist wants / needs the other to play a role." Or to be an object of his desires. Even if that object is a hurting and humiliating object.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zweig [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Guys, if you have it in you, there is no point in fighting or repressing it. Use common sense and enjoy your uniqueness.
You mean getting to understand it is "fighting" it? Or repressing it? I think common sense would dictate me to do exactly as I am doing now. If this is really such a good and harmless thing, then all true theories would simply enhance the experience.

Instead, I see my need for it and enjoyment of it getting smaller. Every time I feel the need for it, I let go and enjoy it to the fullest. I have no regrets, no fighting and I don't feel any repression. I do not feel especially dirty.

For example RP-14 by Club Q. There is, quite near the beginning, the scene where the girl fells a man and then drools on his face. I found the video almost a year ago. First I was shocked, then very excited. I think she is devilishly cute. I got back to it maybe twenty times during the winter. Then I forgot about it. Now I got back to it once, and I am not sure if I ever will again.

I mean, the other source for the idea of a self-centered freak is me and my own experience. A masochist (or I as a masochist) fantasizes himself as the object of someone else's desire to objectify. So every time I see the scene in RP-14 I fantasize that she would do that to me. I have no other interest in her, and doubt that I would, even if she were present in the same room. I have also my doubts that I would enjoy the experience in real life, but that is a purely theoretical consideration.

Last edited by Swingingmoose; 01-Sep-15 at 12:37.
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  #257  
Old 30-Aug-15, 18:30
Swingingmoose Swingingmoose is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

Quote:
Originally Posted by psf366 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It's a shame to read so many comments comparing a healthy libido to drug addiction and ruined lives. I think some number of guys here have confused our taste for losing control to a woman with losing control of one's sanity. Heterosexual men think about women A LOT. There's nothing wrong with it. We just happen to have a somewhat unique way of thinking about them.

In my opinion, the world is way too concerned about NORMAL SEX vs WEIRD SEX. Bruce Jenner changes his identity to Caitlyn and it makes newspaper headlines. That's bullshit! Everyone should feel free to make up stories and identities and (hopefully) find partners who want to join in. The alternative is a life of Victorian repression where sexual thoughts are called "dirty" and self-loathing is the rule.
"Some here have confused our taste..."

You are now saying that my taste suddenly is not real. What? How do you explain that? How do you back that up?

Someone doing 100 mph on a 65 mph road might say: "People drive cars a lot. There's nothing wrong with it. We just happen to have a somewhat unique way of driving them." I mean, if you didn't notice, we already went into details of that "unique" way. So it is nothing new to anyone here that there is some "unique" way. We have been discussing that "unique" way all the time.

The devil is in the details. I suggest we not leave the details alone simply because you suddenly refuse to consider them.

I think sex being normal or weirdo does not depend on how many are concerned about it. So your argument is not really about too many people being concerned. You are trying to say, but for some reason can't, that in your opinion there is no such thing as weirdo sex. Independent of how many are concerned.

Problem with stories and identities is that they need to be shared and believed. Nobody makes up a story or an identity unless he intends someone to believe it. The other problem is that I hold the view that there are some things that are not made up or invented.

Can't you imagine any middle road between Victorian repression and everyone letting everything hang out?

Be also careful about this. There are two different ways to argue about this. Either "there is good and bad, we are good and what we do is good" or "there is no good or bad, because, if there was, we would inevitably be bad". Do not confuse these two.
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  #258  
Old 30-Aug-15, 19:39
Swingingmoose Swingingmoose is offline
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Default Re: Why we have this fetish

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zweig [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
smells of sexual repression, which is absolutely against the ideas on which this forum was created.
Now that you mentioned it. I have a perfectly on topic story to tell. I mean, why I have this fetish.

Let's simply say that my mother is a narcissist. I have a lot to back this up. A deep and detailed understanding of the inner workings of the disease. But I will leave it at that.

I look back at myself as a small child. Now, every time I expressed any emotions or independent initiative or opinions, she would come and correct me. Or she would "one-up" my emotions. Or she would ignore me. Anyway, what ever I tried to express, it was, you said it, repressed. She always knew better what I felt, wanted or thought than I myself. We did not have as much disagreements about what I should think, do or be, as we had about what I felt or thought. She wanted to be the author of my thoughts and feelings. And saw nothing wrong with that. To this day it's been like this. How is that for repressive? It makes me sick and I want to puke writing this.

So, in my mind, repression is love. When I fantasize about being dominated, I fantasize about being made as ineffective, inconsequential, insignificant and impotent as my mother made me feel. Add helpless and worthless to that.

So my basic position is that I am not a person. I'm a container for someone's fantasies about me. I'm an object of someone's desires. And finding someone or fantasizing about someone who treats me as an object, an ineffective, impotent container has a feeling of familiarity and security associated with it. I have never felt any loving or liking to my mother. But I feel a superficial "love" or liking towards femdom actors and female bodybuilders. I never felt that my mother "held" or "accepted" me. For some reason, when a female bodybuilder kicks a man's butt or wrestles him down on a mat, there is more love and acceptance involved.

My mother is not a bad or evil person per se. She's just simply and totally self-absorbed and unable to see the world in any other way. There are no other persons in her universe. Everything is simply a reflection of herself. Other people are just superficial extensions of her.

I have no idea why this fetish has taken certain forms during the years. Wanting to see men wrestled down has come and gone. Wanting to see someone peed on has come and gone. Wanting to see someone strangled has come and is soon gone. I have fantasized about being a victim of domestic violence by a nice MMA girl. Or being bearhugged to tears by weightlifters. I generally don't like the idea of being physically damaged. Or humiliated. I think that more than everything I want to be overpowered and made to give up.

So this is the way I see repression. It's repression that got me into this and brought me here. My "uniqueness" is this knack for being repressed. And seeing how it is done to me and how I am doing it to myself enables me to slowly, bit by bit, extricate myself from it.

I haven't been seen as a person while growing up. So neither do I see these wrestling, sessioning and dominating women as persons. I have never claimed to speak for or about anyone else but myself. I do suspect there may be a small minority that shares my experience and my history. And I see there is a small minority that has hard time following written text and still thinks that I claim to speak for everyone and about everyone.

If I weren't so repressed, I would see myself as a person. I would then be able to get to know other people as persons. Maybe even some session wrestlers. Then I could form an opinion about their trade and the "real purpose" of this forum. I may be not part of the intended audience. But I am part of the inevitable audience. I am not everyone. But I am absolutely sure I am not alone.
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  #259  
Old 22-Mar-16, 05:34
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Why this stuff?

Hello. I've been around for awhile, but have never posted before. Never thought I would.

I'm sure a thread like this pops up from time to time, but thought I would renew the discussion.

I've always been interested in the psychology behind "this stuff" and why it appeals to most of us. I wondered if anyone wouldn't mind sharing:

1. How you came to like enjoy mixed wrestling?

2. Why do you think this is? Are there any underlying thoughts or clues you've picked up over the years to explain why this appeals to you?


As for myself--As a young boy, about 5-6, I remember being aroused by thoughts of being forced into doing something humiliating by a girl (wear diapers, girls clothes). Growing up, I remember reacting very negatively to TV shows and movies where women would "beat up", kill, or best a man in someway or another. I recall this making me very angry, and embarrassed for some reason. I'm really curious to know if others experienced this as well.

When I was 12, my world was rocked by Goldeneye and the infamous Xenia scene. I had never seen or heard of anything like this before. I think that really set me off, though I'm not exactly sure why. Eventually I got internet access and worked my way through various wrestling holds until I came to "scissoring".

For me, it has always been essential that the holds and scenarios I'm looking at seem real, or believable. This is why hollywood movies depicting mixed fighting are often much more arousing that scripted internet stuff. It's very important that I become intellectually convinced that that particular guy in that particular circumstance wouldn't have been able to get out of the position.

My best guess is that some deep seated childhood notion of women being weaker gets contradicted when I see mixed wrestling (assuming it's believable). This creates a state of confusion/embarrassment which manifested itself as frustration and anger as a child. That, combined with the visuals of a woman who is sexually appealing, causes sexual arousal to enter into the equation. This is why I'm not aroused when seeing overly muscular women wrestle men, even if it might be believable, it isn't attractive. So somehow the wires of embarrassment, confusion, and sexual arousal all get crossed and what you have is this weird phenomenon.

I could go on, but this is probably already too long.

How about you?
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Old 22-Mar-16, 06:15
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  #260  
Old 26-Mar-16, 23:05
Fr@g!l3_$p33d$+3r Fr@g!l3_$p33d$+3r is offline
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Default Re: Why this stuff?

We like it due to it being able to touch a girl without being creepy, plus: the girls, their outfits, or both.

There are two types of scissoring:
Bodyscissors, or body(-)scissors, is a guard in Brazilian & Traditional Jiu Jitsu, which is leverage for their respective moves. Judo banned it, as Judo is based on momentum manipulation, not mindless brute strength. Besides, you can free youself from a female by following this trick: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]. Using it to free youself, and using your upper and lower body strategically, you can beat her while greatly reducing the risk of hurting her.

Headscissors, or head(-)scissors, uses timing (during your opponent's movement) and leverage (opponent's shift in weight-distribution during movement) before strength is applied (by pressing the legs against your opponent's neck - specifically their windpipe or arteries near it - with your legs).

Last edited by Fr@g!l3_$p33d$+3r; 27-Mar-16 at 00:52. Reason: Bad grammar. Forgotten info.
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