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Check out the latest release by Fight Pulse: Lia Labowe vs Ali Bordeaux (domination rules).
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  #61  
Old 12-Oct-18, 03:50
mermao mermao is offline
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

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Can't believe how the UFC is screwing around with its fighters - both male and female.
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  #62  
Old 15-Oct-18, 10:22
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

A bit of silly flip-flopping, but at least Valentina vs. Joanna is back on. I think we'd all rather see that fight over Valentina vs. Sijara Eubanks.
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  #63  
Old 10-Apr-19, 00:55
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

I don't know if it is the most appropriate thread but I did not know where to post it, I have found this video of Valentina grappling with a bigger male on a tv show who seems to be untrained.
I was pretty disappointed by the fact that she is unable to take him down, while he is able to take her down and ragdoll her, and that he has to late her take his back to make her win, I was sure that one of the best ufc fighters would be able to easily defeat an untrained man.
I ask to people more knowledgeable than I am, how it is possible and how do you explain it? It is true that a female fighter of valentina's size cannot subdue a man of that size (which is not overly large by the way) despite being technically skilled? Or I am misinterpreting the video (like I hope that I'am doing)?

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  #64  
Old 10-Apr-19, 04:22
jesspin jesspin is offline
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

It's called reality. That is why I mocked the media blitz who claimed Ronda Rousey was knocking out pro male boxers. We saw her striking and any pro boxer would have had her in for facial reconstructive surgery.
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  #65  
Old 10-Apr-19, 05:49
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

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Originally Posted by jesspin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It's called reality. That is why I mocked the media blitz who claimed Ronda Rousey was knocking out pro male boxers. We saw her striking and any pro boxer would have had her in for facial reconstructive surgery.
I have never heard anybody claim that ronda rousey would be able to knock out male boxers to be honest, but that she would be able to submit them by virtue of her superior grappling, which is a way more logical and believable (altough not necessarily correct) statement, since there are plenty of cases of pure grappler easily submit experienced pure strikers even at an huge size and strenght disadvantage (eg. the gracies in plenty of vale tudo bouts).

Also there is plenty of difference between facing a male who is a pro in a fighting discipline and an untrained strong joe, I expected a pro female fighter to be able to handle the second altough not the first.
I would like to know portoguese in order to understand the dialogue of the video and what's is going on and how they reacted to this thing, and also what the ruleset was and if it contribuited to the outcome.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 10-Apr-19 at 06:07.
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  #66  
Old 10-Apr-19, 06:42
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

That guy is David Zagarra - a pro Boxer. Clearly from his physique/movement/balance alone you can see he is not an untrained scrub. Also keep in mind that Valentina is not from a grappling background and wasn't as developed in MMA back in 2013 when this vid was shot.This is basically female kickboxer vs male boxer with a weight advantage of 30-40 pounds.
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  #67  
Old 10-Apr-19, 16:38
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
That guy is David Zagarra - a pro Boxer. Clearly from his physique/movement/balance alone you can see he is not an untrained scrub. Also keep in mind that Valentina is not from a grappling background and wasn't as developed in MMA back in 2013 when this vid was shot.This is basically female kickboxer vs male boxer with a weight advantage of 30-40 pounds.
I know that she is not from a grappling background but she still had ten years of experience in professional mma at the time, including plenty of win via sumbission.
I did not know that he was a boxer but it don't change things that much, a boxer still is compltetely unprepared for grappling and clueless in a grappling match, and male boxer are usually humliated without effort by male grappler even if weaker and smaller, even in matches in which the boxer can strike, I expected a girl with over ten years of experience in mma to be able to easily deal with a pure striker in grappling only.
Do you know if valentina already had her judo black belt in 2013?
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  #68  
Old 10-Apr-19, 18:24
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

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Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I know that she is not from a grappling background but she still had ten years of experience in professional mma at the time, including plenty of win via sumbission.
I did not know that he was a boxer but it don't change things that much, a boxer still is compltetely unprepared for grappling and clueless in a grappling match, and male boxer are usually humliated without effort by male grappler even if weaker and smaller, even in matches in which the boxer can strike, I expected a girl with over ten years of experience in mma to be able to easily deal with a pure striker in grappling only.
Do you know if valentina already had her judo black belt in 2013?
Not 10 exclusive years though. Her main sport was always Muay Thai Kickboxing. She didn't fully turn her attention to MMA as an all-consuming focus until 2015.

Also, how do you know that Zegarra doesn't cross-train? Over the past 10 years it has become fairly common for MMA fighters and Boxers to train alongside each other and for Boxers to test the water in gyms to get a loose understanding whether they could transition. I'd be surprised if he didn't have, at the very least, a knowledge of grappling basics. He is a pro athlete, therefore compared to Valentina has not only a size advantage but a speed and strength advantage too. Plus there are plenty of carry-over skills in terms of leverage, balance and knowledge of body mechanics. He is in no way comparable to an average, untrained guy.

Trying to use this in an attempt to put Valentina and top female MMA fighters down is rather silly.

Last edited by jiminy; 10-Apr-19 at 18:41.
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  #69  
Old 10-Apr-19, 18:53
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Not 10 exclusive years though. Her main sport was always Muay Thai Kickboxing. She didn't fully turn her attention to MMA as an all-consuming focus until 2015.

Also, how do you know that Zegarra doesn't cross-train? He is a pro athlete, therefore has not only a size advantage but a speed and strength advantage too. Plus there are plenty of carry-over skills from boxing in terms of leverage, balance and knowledge of body mechanics. He is in no way comparable to an average, untrained guy.
I know that he is not comparable to the average guy.
But I still believed that a top mma female fighter trained in grappling would be able to beat an above average man who is not trained in grappling rather easily.

Quote:
Also, how do you know that Zegarra doesn't cross-train?
He clearly has no clue whatsoever about grappling technique in this video, he fight on instincts like most people would.
For example he does not properly sprawl, does not try any takedown when he is behind her opponent, when valentina is on top of him he hugged her by force in a random and totally useless and ineffective way like any untrained guy would do instead of trying to properly recompose guard, he is totally lost on his back, he stopped her takedown and throw attempts by using sheer strenght and athleticism etc...
If he showed even a remotely basic understand of ground fighitng and grappling I would not be making this post.

Quote:
Trying to use this in an attempt to put Valentina and top female MMA fighters down is rather silly.
This is not my objective at all, on the contrary I hope that someone explain me in a convincing way why this video is not a clue, because i would prefer that my impression is not true.
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  #70  
Old 10-Apr-19, 19:08
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Default Re: Valentina Shevchenko

I would contend that he does have a clue what he is doing. He understands keeping a low centre of gravity and how to dispense his weight for starters. Leg position and stance. The basic fundamentals are there. Here are some other solid techniques I noticed;

4:23 - Immediately you see that he understands the importance of wrist control, not allowing Valentina any grip or chance to gain momentum or leverage.

4:36 - over/under hooks to prevent being thrown and put on his back easily.

7:40 - Good speed and technique to circle (not just back up) from the sprawl and take the back.

7:46 - Understands the importance of a body lock, keeping the hands clasped so that he's the one with the control. He is not "rag dolling" her though, he is just nullifying her.

8:16 - Hips back, weight pressed down so that Valentina can't explode up.

8:40 - When lock is broken, immediately goes back to controlling the wrist to bring her back down.

Last edited by jiminy; 10-Apr-19 at 21:03.
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