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  #51  
Old 06-Oct-18, 20:57
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

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Originally Posted by lfourt [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
because the difference in strenght becomes greater between women and men.
A female state champion said after her win that there is not much of a difference at 106 lbs. and some coaches said that 120 lbs is the edge where the difference becomes more and more significant.

Women defeat men in every kind of sports itīs just a matter of level, but my point is you canīt compare women and men 1:1.
I'd like to read this quote from the 106lbs state champion.

I get the impression you're merely describing the importance of weight classes.

Small men are still, on average, stronger than small women. You can observe weightlifting stats as evidence of this.

Strength is a factor in grappling whether it's a 106lbs weight class or 206lbs.
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  #52  
Old 06-Oct-18, 21:10
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfourt [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
because the difference in strenght becomes greater between women and men.
A female state champion said after her win that there is not much of a difference at 106 lbs. and some coaches said that 120 lbs is the edge where the difference becomes more and more significant.

Women defeat men in every kind of sports itīs just a matter of level, but my point is you canīt compare women and men 1:1.

That doesn't answer my question.

Wrestling techniques such as double-leg takedowns work because they employ leverage, not strength.

This coach [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] as much, as does [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] one.

Even the Encyclopedia Britannica [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] so.

What evidence shows that strength matters more at higher weights than at lower ones?

Added after 10 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'd like to read this quote from the 106lbs state champion.

I get the impression you're merely describing the importance of weight classes.

Small men are still, on average, stronger than small women. You can observe weightlifting stats as evidence of this.

Strength is a factor in grappling whether it's a 106lbs weight class or 206lbs.

Weight is a much bigger factor on the ground than strength.

Weight matters in stand-up arts as well, because it provides more body mass to put behind punches, kicks and the like.

Last edited by ClckwrkOra; 06-Oct-18 at 21:10.
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  #53  
Old 06-Oct-18, 21:28
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

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Originally Posted by ClckwrkOra [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Weight is a much bigger factor on the ground than strength.

Weight matters in stand-up arts as well, because it provides more body mass to put behind punches, kicks and the like.
I wouldn't dispute that, but 'lfourt' seems to be making the argument that strength at lower weight classes, or "under 120lbs", is a non-factor and only becomes a factor in higher weight classes.
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  #54  
Old 06-Oct-18, 21:31
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I wouldn't dispute that, but 'lfourt' seems to be making the argument that strength at lower weight classes, or "under 120lbs", is a non-factor and only becomes a factor in higher weight classes.

You're right -- he is making that argument.

Perhaps he will show some evidence that supports it.
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  #55  
Old 06-Oct-18, 21:50
lfourt lfourt is offline
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You can observe weightlifting stats as evidence of this
The numbers in weightlifting telling me that the difference becomes bigger the higher the weight.
lightweight women are closer to men than heavyweight women. Weightlifting is also not a good example. Too much steroids men and women.

Fact is that there was never a statechampion above 106 lbs. some have been close at 113 lbs. There are a lot of talented female wrestlers at the higher weights.

"I don't think of my gender as a disadvantage in any way," she said. "In the 106 weight class I think it's more just skill, whoever's better."

Danielle Coughlin

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  #56  
Old 06-Oct-18, 22:17
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

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Originally Posted by lfourt [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The numbers in weightlifting telling me that the difference becomes bigger the higher the weight.
lightweight women are closer to men than heavyweight women.

Fact is that there was never a statechampion above 106 lbs. some have been close at 113 lbs. There are a lot of talented female wrestlers at the higher weights.

"I don't think of my gender as a disadvantage in any way," she said. "In the 106 weight class I think it's more just skill, whoever's better."

Danielle Coughlin

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

The question isn’t whether males are stronger.

The question is what evidence shows strength matters more at higher weights in wrestling.

Right now there are more than 14 male wrestlers nationwide for every female wrestler. The average 16-year-old girl only weighs 115 pounds — and that includes all, not just athletes.

Between being outnumbered on the mats and naturally tipping the scales at low weights, it only makes sense that the most successful girl wrestlers are going to be at lower weights.

If you are correct, then there will be plenty of coaches, exercise physiologists and other experts who will have said that strength matters more in the higher weights.

So how about showing me the experts who back up your argument?
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  #57  
Old 06-Oct-18, 22:26
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by lfourt [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The numbers in weightlifting telling me that the difference becomes bigger the higher the weight.
lightweight women are closer to men than heavyweight women. Weightlifting is also not a good example. Too much steroids men and women.

Fact is that there was never a statechampion above 106 lbs. some have been close at 113 lbs. There are a lot of talented female wrestlers at the higher weights.
You're overlooking the big issue of participation numbers. Typically in women's sport where weight classes exists, there is much more depth at lighter weights. In MMA for example, the depth is all at 115-135lbs whereas with men it's more like 155-185. UFC's 145lb champ Cris Cyborg has spent much of her career fighting 'blown up' 125ers and 135ers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lfourt [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

"I don't think of my gender as a disadvantage in any way," she said. "In the 106 weight class I think it's more just skill, whoever's better."

Danielle Coughlin

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
What you're reading from this is not necessarily what she is saying. People often talk about smaller competitors being more technical and skilful, such as Mayweather in Boxing compared to heavyweights. This doesn't mean that strength is an absent factor which suddenly becomes a factor when you get over 120lbs.

Deanna Rix got to the final of a state championship in 2005, beating many boys along the way and she wrestled at 130lbs.

Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it can't happen.

I get the impression that before the turn of the millennium, before any girls had won a state championship against boys, people like yourself would be saying it's "not possible" / "never happened so never gonna happen". That's the great thing about sport and equal opportunity. Records are made to be broken and we have to keep an open mind and re-assessing what is truly possible.

Last edited by jiminy; 06-Oct-18 at 22:32.
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  #58  
Old 06-Oct-18, 22:37
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You're overlooking the big issue of participation numbers. Typically in women's sport where weight classes exists, there is much more depth at lighter weights. In MMA for example, the depth is all at 115-135lbs whereas with men it's more like 155-185. UFC's 145lb champ Cris Cyborg has spent much of her career fighting 'blown up' 125ers and 135ers.




What you're reading from this is not necessarily what she is saying. People often talk about smaller competitors being more technical and skilful, such as Mayweather in Boxing compared to heavyweights. This doesn't mean that strength is an absent factor which suddenly becomes a factor when you get over 120lbs.

Deanna Rix got to the final of a state championship in 2005, beating many boys along the way and she wrestled at 130lbs.

Just because something hasn't happened yet, doesn't mean it can't happen.

I get the impression that before the turn of the millennium, before any girls had won a state championship against boys, people like yourself would be saying it's "not possible" / "never happened so never gonna happen". That's the great thing about sport and equal opportunity. Records are made to be broken and we have to keep an open mind and re-assessing what is truly possible.

Number of girls wrestling in high schools [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register], 1994: 804.

Number today: 16,562.

Number of boys wrestling in U.S. high schools today: 245,564.
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  #59  
Old 06-Oct-18, 22:58
lfourt lfourt is offline
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This doesn't mean that strength is an absent factor which suddenly becomes a factor when you get over 120lbs.
i think you misunderstood. i said it becomes more significant in mixed gender matches.
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  #60  
Old 06-Oct-18, 23:22
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: Teen Girl Uses BJJ To Submit Male in MMA In 22 Seconds

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Originally Posted by lfourt [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
i think you misunderstood. i said it becomes more significant in mixed gender matches.

And what experts support your argument?
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