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#11
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Re: Only men die :O
memphis, thank you so much for your thoughtful response! Its interesting how it inspired you to pursue the opposite interest, but its also gratifying to know we're not the only ones who noticed
I was very embarrassed for a long time growing up about My feelings on how unfair certain things are for men and how special it made Me feel as a Girl.. and I don't think I quite comprehended what I was going through at the time other than I liked the special treatment. Until meeting My current bf, I had a lot of unlocked fantasies and feelings about it all. Obviously My post is evidence of what you're talking about, the attitudes, social trends and trope is explicitly what you and XOL are discussing and I think you're really right about how you understand it. Its hilarious how a lot of men get defensive about violence against Women - obviously I enjoy that a lot. Chivalry is a total turn on. But I must admit I am really put off by it. I cant help that, but it just strikes a chord in Me that makes Me feel off-- which I guess is maybe why I enjoy the opposite... Though I had to do a lot of self unpacking to try and understand why I don't mind fantasies and depictions of males suffering, but anything more than a Woman in peril bothers Me... I don't know if I have a good answer for you. Sadly I do think there is a big campaign that is attacking masculinity currently. You see it in advertisements and more all the time. I love men, I need men and I want men to be and feel like men! I know this post and kink contradict those feelings.. but this is all just fantasy right? As for hard lines on taboo, I think there are varying degrees. I can't police what consenting adults do in privacy. I do have things I morally object to, and I choose not to interact with them. Sadly our interests brush up with darker fantasies. I just try best to ignore and define My own boundaries. I tend to agree with XOL more on the social implications and attitudes of Women versus males, and I take a more traditional stance on that. I am always really shocked when My bf shows Me violent cartoons of Amazons castrating men or depictions that outright waste dozens of male characters and spare/save the Female characters... but I suppose I think it's more harmless than the other way around because of traditional gender roles... I know thats really wrong and clearly unfair. I guess I need to unpack and process My feelings more articulately on that. But I'd say Im usually left with an excited feeling rather than a completely disgusted one (though I feel guilty about being excited).. Idk its a mixed bag and now this rambling probably makes Me sound crazy lol Idk I just really appreciate you taking the time to share your perspective even though you feel in the minority. Glad to have you here! Last edited by slayergirl69; 24-Jul-18 at 15:07. |
#12
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Re: Only men die :O
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To start off, I really do appreciate and enjoy to hear someone from the other side of the spectrum. It helps me explore my own clockwork on this issue when there is a dialectic at hand. Obviously, this is not a topic that I can casually bring up at work by the water cooler so I rarely get to talk about it with others. We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject of men being hardwired for violence. Personally, I believe that there is empirical evidence for that opinion and that male tendencies for violence supersedes the influences of social/cultural upbringing. Women are undoubtedly more than capable of violence but I think it should be at least acknowledged that men are built for violence for the sake of propagating their genetics and to fight for preservation. Its really difficult to say where the lines of censorship should be drawn. Obviously a line has to be drawn somewhere. I think we would all agree that minors are way off limits and quite frankly anyone who disagrees with that in my opinion is an irrtrievably dangerous animal that should be put out of their misery. People could easily make the argument against me that the executrix/femme fatale fetish is dangerous. I admit this fetish of mine has some potentially dangerous ramifications. I've had some strange characters approach me and talk to me about their thoughts on it and I have to say that not everyone I've talked to is into the femme fatale fetish for the same reasons that I am. Some of them really are misandrists. Am I responsible for those people looking at the material that I post and what they might potentially do to someone one day? I don't think so. I agree that fetishes shouldn't be censored because of the few that can't keep the fetish within the realm of fantasy. Therefore it is only fair that I apply the same notion to someone like you or others that might have sexual proclivities that I find alien. With that said, I still can't help but balk at certain fetishes. I totally understand when people aren't into mine. By far the most negatively received thread that I ever started on this forum was my "Simulated Castration" thread. Personally, I think a woman castrating a cheating male is HIGHLY erotic. A lot of people felt otherwise... and thats okay, I suppose the purpose of this forum is the exchange of ideas and fantasies that might awaken something in another. Thats a good thing... (I'm going to refrain from talking about the gender politics referenced in my original post as I view it as a digression and a conversation meant for another time.) |
#13
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Re: Only men die :O
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#14
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Re: Only men die :O
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A males drive and duty to disregard logic and safety for a primal morality that calls for him to fight for, defend and sacrifice for the Female (even if She is a "weaker" being). Its a spiritual cause. And to further extrapolate that, it renders males "worth less" than the precious Female by nature. Women take on a sacred status, where as the male (and all males) must survive to rise higher in value |
#15
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Re: Only men die :O
From Total Recall to Atomic Blonde to probably hundreds of slasher flics, I don't think there is any shortage of movies where women are killed, often in quite gruesome ways, by men.
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#16
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Re: Only men die :O
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After thinking about it, my opinion is a bit more nuanced then what I said...For example, it is a fact that men have more testosterone, and indeed that does result in more aggressive behavior, even if t levels vary wildly depending on different men and their own temperament. That said I think you and others here highly underestimate the influence of social and cultural upbringing, like MASSIVELY underestimate it and make the mistake of thinking because things are how they are now in our own society, they were always this way and its how it is for everyone and it's just the natural state of the genders but any serious look at history and other cultures disproves this.. Fact is all this chivalry stuff and a lot of the tropes you guys bring up... They are relatively recent, and have their origins in medieval chivalry. But the expectations and social role of women and men has been anything but consistent throughout history. Women have at times been considered malformed men (and treated as such) or been just as expendable as men have (even during the age of chivalry, all that was for the nobility, the average peasant woman who spent her life doing the same back breaking labor as the men didn't see much of that special privilege or men sacrificing themselves to win her favor). As one of my lovely friends would put it "women were shit" for most of history, any story that has men fighting for a woman it's always because it was the "ultimate" woman, the most beautiful or the most fertile or w/e, not because it was simply "a" woman. It's also a bit..western centric? Is that a word? I'm guessing most folks here are either from USA or at least a european country which is why we recognize these tropes and trends. You don't even have to look at historical examples, even today there are parts of the world were women are not treated the way some of you describe it and women are not considered divine creatures that need to be protected or fought over but as cattle to be traded. Jeezus not so long ago chinese families were throwing out baby girls en masse, because of purely cultural reasons (namely the one child rule and how daughters don't pass on their family name). Take the US, some of their sources which shaped their cultural idea of masculinity comes from example from the archetype of the strong independent cowboy or later on, the dutiful soldier who fought in ww2. The american idea of masculinity was defined by things like that which you won't find elsewhere. Growing up in France, acting like some tough guy would just get you labelled as an "ape", because the classical idea of a french ideal man is someone who is suave, sophisticated and a bit stylish (something americans might scoff at). It makes sense when you consider factors like how ww1 utterly decimated the male population and how their ww1 experience showed that bravery and gallantry kinda meant nothing in the face of machine gun fire. Ex: "A males drive and duty to disregard logic and safety for a primal morality that calls for him to fight for, defend and sacrifice for the Female (even if She is a "weaker" being). Its a spiritual cause." There have been cultures where men were not celebrated for their strength but for their cleverness and intelligence. So your example here would be seen as unmanly and "acting like a woman" by them (aka emotional and not thinking, again, this is the perception those cultures had). This primal morality/spiritual cause you refer to seems very much to be good euro medieval chivalry/christianity where the ideal was for knights to be brave and valiant but also unthinking and blindingly loyal to their lord and to give it their all for the honor of a noble lady whose virtue was sacred and had to be protected. Again, some cultures like that, but not all so this feeds into my argument that trends like this ain't "natural" or "hard wired" into men, but are the result of culture and socialization. Men are taught that this is how they have to be and so act like it. Otherwise on topic of emperical evidence.. Psychology major here and I can tell you this topic isn't something that has had a lot of serious study because it's almost impossible to isolate the cultural and social factors. If you know a study on this topic that I don't, I'd welcome any links. But to my knowledge the most hard evidence we got is the few times we have had cases of the "enfants sauvages" (wild kids, aka kids that got left in forest or w/e and grew up away from other humans, thus giving us a very rare glimpse of what humans are like in their "default" state without any cultural influence), none of them showed a natural desire for chivalry or white knighting (quite the opposite if anything xD), supporting my assertion that fighting for the honor of ladies or wanting to impress them is very much a cultural and learned behavior or simply part of the social conditioning (like being raised on stories of noble heroes slaying monsters to rescue the princess) or a result of environmental factors. Jeezus I can ramble on and haven't even really gone into as much detail as I'd like but then, discussions on gender roles throughout history and the evolution of masculinity and feminity is as meaty a topic as you can get. I'll try to make my next few responses more brief then.. @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] Started responding to your post and ended up with a big tldr above, but i super respect your views even if the rushed way i write things or express disagreement might not give that perception. @Slayergirl I like the cut of your jib all around and overall agree with most of what you say, with the exception of what I commented above. Also I find the way you describe things....Very hot. Since both you and Xol responded to the mention of consent and what's appropriate.. How slayergirl put it sums it up for me better then any way I could express it: "As for hard lines on taboo, I think there are varying degrees. I can't police what consenting adults do in privacy. I do have things I morally object to, and I choose not to interact with them. Sadly our interests brush up with darker fantasies. I just try best to ignore and define my own boundaries.” @Headbutter Interesting perspective even if I don't quite agree it's a universal rule or trope for reasons given above. @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] So in other words, films from over 10-20+ years ago and mainly horror films. I think you might have misunderstood what I was getting at tbh. And now to be on topic for a change.. Kinda remember 2 contrasting examples in media that stuck with me, one for the men being disposable and women being divine camp that is perfectly in line with thread's theme of only men dieing, the other being one of the more cerebral examples of violence against women being portrayed as an intimate thing and an example that stuck with me. 1) Clash of the Titans The hero (perseus i think it was?) goes on a dangerous quest with a squad of handpicked elite warriors. Who mostly die in horrible ways, all to help perseus achieve his sacred quest. He is also helped by some hot female guardian angel type character every now and then. At the end of the film, he gets option to ask the gods for a favor. He begs them to revive the girl (who got killed in final fight, in a non gruesome way because women are too divine to die horribly like men!) and gets his wish. He doesn't even think or give a fuck about the dudes that died for him, even though he could easily ask for them to be revived too... Fuck them, they did their job as men and the worthiest male at the end got the angelic female. How's that for a perfect depiction of male disposability and female divinity? :P I think Slayergirl or Xol could word this story so much better then me but you get the idea. 2) 1984 Even people who read the book tend to forget about this bit. But the main character, fantasizes about committing brutal violence to the female protagonist, because initially she is part of the...ah forgot name because it's been a while but it was like some sort of anti sex/degeneration youth group totally subservient to big brother and enforcers of the states views on morality (hence the anti sex part). When they eventually become friends and even hook up, the male protagonist decides it's a good idea as an act of trust to admit to her his dark and violent fantasies... And she just laughed at it and found it sweet. Rather then it being awkward or anything, it reinforced their bond. This passage stuck with me because besides being my first brush with mvf violence before i even really knew i might have a fetish for it, the way it was presented as an "act of trust" really surprised me, as well as portraying these dark impulses as something normal rather then a sign the character is evil or messed up. Allright that's enough tldr from me. Last edited by memphis; 27-Jul-18 at 05:13. |
#17
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Re: Only men die :O
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Atomic Blonde came out last year. Equalizer 2, in which a woman with significant combat skills, is brutally killed by male assailants, is in the theaters right now. |
#18
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Re: Only men die :O
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And also is about a woman kicking ass in general and beating up much bigger men so..yeah. The second example is too recent to gauge reactions, unless you want me to go fishing around twitter and such. Based on these examples, as I said I feel you don't really understand what I'm getting at, because: "I don't think there is any shortage of movies where women are killed, often in quite gruesome ways, by men" is not a statement i dispute nor did i ever imply this was not the case (i hope). I think it was my mistake for answering the way I did initially because in my head my reasoning was "so most of these films come from an era where we weren't so hung up about political stuff" but you probably instead interpreted it as me continuing to deny the existence of any films that has a woman being roughed up. My mistake entirely (in my defense i was writing tons) so hope that clears things up. Anyways sick of political bs and said I'd avoid bringing the topic up again so hope it's clear now that what you described (that there is a shortage of movies where women are killed) is not a view point i hold. Last edited by memphis; 27-Jul-18 at 01:13. |
#19
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Re: Only men die :O
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But knowing thats how I feel personally, in a fantasy realm, excited by reality I always felt lucky not to ever have to endure that "sacrifice". Whereas males do, they are conscripted and have to sign up for selective services or be held legally responsible for their "cowardice". There's a romantic element of men going off to defend their country and the Women they love. Its nice to be a rose in a soldier's pocket. Safe away from harm. My bf gets turned on thinking of the generations of beautiful Women who never had to worry about the fear of being drafted, and who still don't. "They don't need to worry their pretty selves about it" It's morbid, and I hope that doesn't offend, it's not a malicious thing, just arousing given the unfairness and like I said we indulge in "Female privileges" so I guess it plays into that.. Quote:
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] On a more personal note, My bf is driven wild when I lay out naked and spread My flower reminding him of things like this, teasing him, denying him access and prodding his male ego and identity.. (Again I just want to reiterate the differences here- I don't hate men. Injustice and inequality is a travesty all walks of life endure. I understand the hypocrisy and morbid connotations of these things- for which I felt shame for a long time until My bf helped Me feel secure in these fantasies and sexual role plays.. I really hope I don't offend some of you) Quote:
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Something that first tipped Me off to this when I was very young was the first Jurassic Park (and the others that followed) but only males get eaten, Women and children always get spared and get away Up until the first Jurassic World there were no Female deaths in the entire franchise - and that disruption caused quite a stir, with many articles complaining about how gruesome and drawn out it was. Ironically none of these articles have had problem with male characters who suffered brutal and undeserved fates prior or after (the newest one- a terrible movie, rightfully went back to the theme of only male characters die- even the evil new dinosaur who is explicitly referred to as a male (all other JP dinosaurs are Female) gets the same treatment). Another example, one that really turned Me on when My bf showed Me (he knew what he was doing lol) we were watching a porno together and a scene happens where two ninjas break into the main character's bar. They start ravaging through Her stuff and end up finding a dildo- of course you can guess what happens next. The main character catches them in the act but waits until theyre finished (of course!) and then when the man finishes and reinserts himself one last time the main character chooses to kill him and interrogate the Girl, letting Her go free afterward Its a sudden and shocking surprise, its not super brutal but I was almost speechless the first time I saw it, and its really what opened up this fetish for us.. I've posted it before on here but I'll drop a gif of the scene I'm describing : [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] And for the record, the bad Girl in this movie gets to have an orgasm and is let go free of any wrong doing while Her male accomplice (the real bad guy) gets a throwing star to the dick... :O lol One last thing I'll share are two images My bf created, he does these from time to time and shares them with Me. He loves the theme of Assassins as well haha but I'm sure some of you will enjoy either of these |
#20
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