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Ronda Rousey 158 61.72%
Jean Claude Van Damme 98 38.28%
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  #1331  
Old 04-Feb-17, 12:09
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

From the first Tate fight forward, the media has overreacted to everything that Ronda did. The thing is, if you're a smart fighter, you're supposed to use that to your advantage, not let it get to you.

Ronda let it all get to her. She got a big head while she was winning, and then got pouty and withdrawn when it went the other way. Sure, she got rich, but it looks like she got entitled too. Hopefully she snaps out of that and finds her balance, because WMMA is a better place when Ronda has an involvement in it.
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  #1332  
Old 04-Feb-17, 18:02
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooksie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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Another amateurish blogger...

Quote:
Coach believes Holly Holm 'broke' Ronda Rousey
By Damon Martin Published February 03, 2017

"It was the shot heard round the world last November when Holly Holm..."
From my viewpoint, he was too eager to employ "shot heard round the world" and forgot to fact-check himself in the process. Do none of these bloggers believe in proofreading?
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  #1333  
Old 04-Feb-17, 19:04
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
And all that "internet hate" translated to real world cash for her at the box office.



It was a laughable, throwaway line, regardless of which fight sport was in the actual statement. You can either abandon principle and control markets or you can hold fast to your principles and let the markets control you. Dana White's primary role is to generate revenue for the company that employs him. He's not under any obligation to "get a handle" on any rumors, and should do the exact opposite if he thinks those rumors might improve his employer's bottom line.

Fantasy and belief are awesome, but I also think there's benefit in recognizing and acknowledging reality. Dana White is here to get you to consume a product, not to make you feel good about it in the process.
That's a pretty hard thing to quantify but, in any event, it skirts the real point which was that a lot of it was both undeserved and unnecessary. You seem to be implying that White didn't care because he's primarily a promoter. I know that but I still think it's a bit of a cynical view. I also know he's claimed, many times, to be Rousey's close friend. Throwing someone to the wolves is not the action of a close friend.

Added after 14 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated G [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
From the first Tate fight forward, the media has overreacted to everything that Ronda did. The thing is, if you're a smart fighter, you're supposed to use that to your advantage, not let it get to you.

Ronda let it all get to her. She got a big head while she was winning, and then got pouty and withdrawn when it went the other way. Sure, she got rich, but it looks like she got entitled too. Hopefully she snaps out of that and finds her balance, because WMMA is a better place when Ronda has an involvement in it.
This is a typical kind of post that you see very often. What's wrong with the "she brought this on herself" and "she got a big head" claim is that it assumes a lot and ignores quite a bit. What it ignores is Dana White's oft-repeated statement that Rousey took on everything the company sent her way, even to the point where she covered for other fighters who flaked on media obligations.

When you reach a certain level of celebrity, you are not in control of your life anymore. There are an overwhelming amount of demands and obligations. The person who put it best is, I think, Kristin Usry of the Women's MMA Roundup who said "The UFC broke their Ronda toy". She is, of course, referring to Rousey's insane schedule leading up to Melbourne and the Holm fight. I'm not saying she didn't buy into her own hype, frankly I don't know how any normal person could avoid that, entirely. But it was clear to those of us who had followed every aspect of Ronda's public life very closely that she was not at her best for that fight. She seemed emotionally fragile, didn't look in her best physical condition and, of course, didn't perform well in the cage.

"The thing is, if you're a smart fighter, you're supposed to use that to your advantage, not let it get to you."

I'm sorry but this could only have been written by someone without a lot of media literacy. It has nothing to do with how "smart" a fighter is and the idea that they could somehow control the media is unrealistic. They're fighters, not PR strategists.

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Another amateurish blogger...



From my viewpoint, he was too eager to employ "shot heard round the world" and forgot to fact-check himself in the process. Do none of these bloggers believe in proofreading?
I wouldn't call Martin an amateur blogger. He is, actually, one of the influential writers on the sport. I don't always agree with him but never thought of him as an amateur. Fox sports is a professional sports outlet, hardly a blog.

The "shot heard round the world" has been used many times to describe the knockout, he's hardly the first. It may be a cliché but it was a fairly shocking event, even outside the MMA world. As for fact-checking, I didn't see anything he got wrong. What did I miss?

Last edited by brooksie; 05-Feb-17 at 07:54.
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  #1334  
Old 04-Feb-17, 19:58
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by brooksie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
That's a pretty hard thing to quantify but, in any event, it skirts the real point which was that a lot of it was both undeserved and unnecessary. You seem to be implying that White didn't care because he's primarily a promoter. I know that but I still think it's a bit of a cynical view. I also know he's claimed, many times, to be Rousey's close friend. Throwing someone to the wolves is not the action of a close friend.
We're talking about cage fighting. When we look at gladiator battles throughout the ages, we are not talking about some great and noble pursuit which has ever sought to advance mankind. We're talking about satisfying our carnal lust for blood and pain (someone else's, mind you). The only thing remotely "noble" about this is the fact that we at least compensate the performers who put their health at risk for our entertainment. I've never heard Ronda say that Dana was a close, personal friend of hers. My takeaway from your posts about them is that you seem to feel Dana was somehow responsible for "protecting" Ronda and I'd counter by saying that she did not need any such protection (though the smartasses among us out there might say she needed protection from Amanda's right hand, but I digress).

Quote:
"The UFC broke their Ronda toy".
Excellent quote!! I looked for it to see whether I could grab the context, but cannot seem to locate it.

Quote:
She is, of course, referring to Rousey's insane schedule leading up to Melbourne and the Holm fight.
If I'd said the same thing, I would have been coming from a slightly different perspective. My take is that the breaking of the toy is more in how Ronda was brought along for that fight. Everything about her "rise" was precedent-setting, so the thought that she'd get knocked out by a knockout specialist was not really in the minds of anyone who had not actually studied Holly's (then) recent resumé and videos.

But seeing what was done to her by Holly, they DEFINITELY screwed up by bringing Ronda back to fight Amanda with no warm-ups in-between.

Quote:
I wouldn't call Martin an amateur blogger. He is, actually, one of the influential writers on the sport. I don't always agree with him but never thought of him as an amateur. Fox sports is a professional sports outlet, hardly a blog.

The "shot heard round the world" has been used many times to describe the knockout, he's hardly the first. It may be a cliché but it was a fairly shocking event, even outside the MMA world. As for fact-checking, I didn't see anything he got wrong. What did I miss?
I never heard of him, so I assumed he was a blogger. Fox and other big outlets do use bloggers. Either way, he published an essay in February 2017 and makes a reference to "last November". Holly did not fight last November. It was more than a year ago. #allnovembersmatter
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  #1335  
Old 04-Feb-17, 20:57
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
If I'd said the same thing, I would have been coming from a slightly different perspective. My take is that the breaking of the toy is more in how Ronda was brought along for that fight. Everything about her "rise" was precedent-setting, so the thought that she'd get knocked out by a knockout specialist was not really in the minds of anyone who had not actually studied Holly's (then) recent resumé and videos.

But seeing what was done to her by Holly, they DEFINITELY screwed up by bringing Ronda back to fight Amanda with no warm-ups in-between.
I'm not sure the UFC is entirely to blame. I honestly think it's possible they were faced with an ultimatum from RR - I'll come back for a title fight, nothing else. BTW, in terms of buying into the RR hype, I don't think anyone escaped that juggernaut, not fans, media, the UFC or Ronda herself. It was a flat-out phenomena.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Excellent quote!! I looked for it to see whether I could grab the context, but cannot seem to locate it.
It was in one of her videos, probably the one right after Melbourne. Kristin got a full-time job shortly after that fight and has let the WMMA Roundup lay fallow for a while, so it should be in one of the more recent ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I never heard of him, so I assumed he was a blogger. Fox and other big outlets do use bloggers. Either way, he published an essay in February 2017 and makes a reference to "last November". Holly did not fight last November. It was more than a year ago. #allnovembersmatter
Well, honestly, mixing up the Novembers is an understandable brain-fart, no problem seeing how that could happen and wouldn't say it's indicative of lazy or poor research. I've developed a preference for who I look to for commentary and analysis in WMMA. Damon Martin isn't in my top tier but he's a solid, reliable voice. If you look at his Twitter feed, you can get a better idea of who he is and what he's done. He's also big in something called the "nerdcore" movement. I think I've got that right, something to do with nerds, anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
My takeaway from your posts about them is that you seem to feel Dana was somehow responsible for "protecting" Ronda and I'd counter by saying that she did not need any such protection (though the smartasses among us out there might say she needed protection from Amanda's right hand, but I digress).
Not protecting Ronda so much as not allowing a bunch of BS to get out there and take on a new life in the media. How was it fair for not only avg. people but also the MMA media and blogosphere to rip Rousey a new one for a claim she didn't make. That's what I'm saying is on Dana and I'm also saying it was his fault for letting it get that far.

Last edited by brooksie; 04-Feb-17 at 23:59.
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  #1336  
Old 04-Feb-17, 21:13
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by brooksie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
"The thing is, if you're a smart fighter, you're supposed to use that to your advantage, not let it get to you."

I'm sorry but this could only have been written by someone without a lot of media literacy. It has nothing to do with how "smart" a fighter is and the idea that they could somehow control the media is unrealistic. There fighters, not PR strategists.
Let me see, Conor McGregor, Uriah Faber, Forest Griffin, Georges St. Pierre, Daniel Cormier, Donald Cerrone, even the Diaz Brothers and Miesha Tate -- all big names, and do they ever let the media control them? No, they use them to get their personalities and their "brand" over. Ronda on the other hand, rode the media bandwagon when she was on a high, and then went into a shell when she wasn't. She let the media control her message. Of course you can't control everything, but if you just be yourself, instead of the image that's crafted for you, eventually that catches on.

Tons of people were telling Ronda she was invincible; she was even a match for Mayweather. I'm sure she didn't buy into this completely, but she bought in enough that she obviously didn't have the right strategy for Holly. And then she didn't take the right approach to train for Nunes. And that may not have mattered; she can't handle that style, plain and simple. That's fine; just don't go into a shell afterwards. Be forthright, admit the weakness, and either retire or remake yourself like tons of other fighters do.
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  #1337  
Old 04-Feb-17, 21:32
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

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Originally Posted by Rated G [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Let me see, Conor McGregor, Uriah Faber, Forest Griffin, Georges St. Pierre, Daniel Cormier, Donald Cerrone, even the Diaz Brothers and Miesha Tate -- all big names, and do they ever let the media control them? No, they use them to get their personalities and their "brand" over. Ronda on the other hand, rode the media bandwagon when she was on a high, and then went into a shell when she wasn't. She let the media control her message. Of course you can't control everything, but if you just be yourself, instead of the image that's crafted for you, eventually that catches on.

Tons of people were telling Ronda she was invincible; she was even a match for Mayweather. I'm sure she didn't buy into this completely, but she bought in enough that she obviously didn't have the right strategy for Holly. And then she didn't take the right approach to train for Nunes. And that may not have mattered; she can't handle that style, plain and simple. That's fine; just don't go into a shell afterwards. Be forthright, admit the weakness, and either retire or remake yourself like tons of other fighters do.
Conor is clearly a different sort of animal. As for the rest of the fighters you mentioned, my feeling is that none of them, not even GSP faced the kind of pressure that Ronda did. Part of that was her willingness to do it, of course but I also feel she felt the obligation to do so more than almost any other fighter. She felt she had the weight of the female side of the sport on her shoulders. I worked in media all my life and I understand it can become a maelstrom that people can be swept up by.

Last edited by brooksie; 05-Feb-17 at 00:02.
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  #1338  
Old 04-Feb-17, 23:09
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

Sara is savvy. This is really good:

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  #1339  
Old 06-Feb-17, 07:30
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread



He doesn't exactly say that, just that he doesn't know
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  #1340  
Old 15-Feb-17, 16:15
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Default Re: Ronda Rousey: Official Discussion Thread

Rogan comes clean! Been a while coming, but I'll tip my cap to him for manning up and owning what he said

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