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  #21  
Old 05-Feb-18, 23:52
mookie69 mookie69 is offline
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Would definitely be be interested to read the story JLambert.

Added after 17 minutes:

Kasie Cavanaugh is another who was/is athletic, skilled and strong enough to maneuver most non-professional fighters into a tight and absolutely inescapable reverse headscissor and either have you frantically tapping while making weird noises you didn't realize you could make (which is what I found myself doing more than once) or I imagine have you rendered unconscious rather quickly if she felt like it. and she has done this thousands of times to men of all shapes and sizes. Sometimes without much active resistance but I'm certain could have and has done a great majority of the time in a competitive match against non-professional or untrained men.

Last edited by mookie69; 05-Feb-18 at 23:52.
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  #22  
Old 06-Feb-18, 03:54
JLambert
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mookie69 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Would definitely be be interested to read the story JLambert.

Added after 17 minutes:

Kasie Cavanaugh is another who was/is athletic, skilled and strong enough to maneuver most non-professional fighters into a tight and absolutely inescapable reverse headscissor and either have you frantically tapping while making weird noises you didn't realize you could make (which is what I found myself doing more than once) or I imagine have you rendered unconscious rather quickly if she felt like it. and she has done this thousands of times to men of all shapes and sizes. Sometimes without much active resistance but I'm certain could have and has done a great majority of the time in a competitive match against non-professional or untrained men.
One account of that is[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register].
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  #23  
Old 06-Feb-18, 09:06
blee0000 blee0000 is offline
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

I have sessioned with Skylar. I am not a well trained fighter, but I am pretty big and in good shape, and have basic grappling skills. There is no way she would be able to submit me with a reverse headscissor if I was fully resisting . Her thighs are very strong (and look so nice) but scissor holds of any kind are very easy for me to break out of if I am trying to go semi-competitive. She definitely made me tap from headscissors, but it was when I was not resisting at all.

But you should book a session with Skylar and find out for yourself! She is very strong, a good wrestler, and most of all fun as hell. A highly recommended session.
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  #24  
Old 06-Feb-18, 16:25
HeadScissorFan HeadScissorFan is offline
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Force [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Hmmmm, really? I've been reading this misconception from several people on this forum lately...and I beg to differ..
Why? It's true. A lot of the people you see in Mixed Wrestling videos are putting their neck out in order for the woman to get them in the position. Because it's part of the fetish, and the video. In order to actually do it on a fully resisting opponent, she'd have to take him down and go through the hoops and effort of getting them in the position. and that's assuming hits aren't allowed.

And why do that when their are plenty of other viable moves to use at your disposal? And also, it matters on the nature of resisting. Is it a pure BJJ match with the specified ruleset? Or is it all goes where I can scratch and bite? Does it start standing, or on the ground? Because if i'm fully resisting, it's going to be a hell of a lot tougher to get me in a RHS while i'm digging my nails into your legs. Even without the dirty stuff, it's still difficult . Hell I've had semi-fully comp sessions with multiple women, some whom have been in the business for more than 10+ years, and they still haven't been able to get me in a reverse while I was giving it my all. Rather, they opted for more viable moves like arm bars and RNC's.

And sure, lets say that there are a couple of special women who could do this. Doesn't make it the rule or the majority.

The point he was making was that the best defense is not getting caught. The typical fetishy reverse headscissor lock isn't going to be the easiest or most practical move to catch someone in who is actively defending. If they fully lock it in, sure, you're fucked. But if they are trying to put you in, you do have a good chance of escaping, even if you are not a professional. You don't need to be Royce Gracie to escape from one. Furthermore, weight and strength play a part as well since grappling with someone who is several times your weight and strength can be a struggle.

Last edited by HeadScissorFan; 06-Feb-18 at 16:35.
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  #25  
Old 06-Feb-18, 19:28
wrestling47 wrestling47 is offline
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadScissorFan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Why? It's true. A lot of the people you see in Mixed Wrestling videos are putting their neck out in order for the woman to get them in the position. Because it's part of the fetish, and the video. In order to actually do it on a fully resisting opponent, she'd have to take him down and go through the hoops and effort of getting them in the position. and that's assuming hits aren't allowed.

And why do that when their are plenty of other viable moves to use at your disposal? And also, it matters on the nature of resisting. Is it a pure BJJ match with the specified ruleset? Or is it all goes where I can scratch and bite? Does it start standing, or on the ground? Because if i'm fully resisting, it's going to be a hell of a lot tougher to get me in a RHS while i'm digging my nails into your legs. Even without the dirty stuff, it's still difficult . Hell I've had semi-fully comp sessions with multiple women, some whom have been in the business for more than 10+ years, and they still haven't been able to get me in a reverse while I was giving it my all. Rather, they opted for more viable moves like arm bars and RNC's.

And sure, lets say that there are a couple of special women who could do this. Doesn't make it the rule or the majority.

The point he was making was that the best defense is not getting caught. The typical fetishy reverse headscissor lock isn't going to be the easiest or most practical move to catch someone in who is actively defending. If they fully lock it in, sure, you're fucked. But if they are trying to put you in, you do have a good chance of escaping, even if you are not a professional. You don't need to be Royce Gracie to escape from one. Furthermore, weight and strength play a part as well since grappling with someone who is several times your weight and strength can be a struggle.
I'll echo your thoughts.

Another thing worth noting is that when wrestling or armwrestling a female, you just don't go into beast mode. I reckon I'm only giving 70% strength on the attack.

I often look at the videos of guys being pinned with arms wide out. Unless you're weak as hell, all you need to do is move your arms inward and together, but also form an attack move. Of course if you're in defensive mode 100% you're going to eventually get caught out. Of course against a fully trained female, you're gonna have a difficult time getting a submission. I've been in a position before where I was wrestling an amateur woman with a weight advantage and she was super competitive and she knew every single time when I was going for an armbar, or a guilotine or a figure 4. Its easier to defend than it is to attack.
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  #26  
Old 07-Feb-18, 03:59
G-Force
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadScissorFan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The point he was making was that the best defense is not getting caught. The typical fetishy reverse headscissor lock isn't going to be the easiest or most practical move to catch someone in who is actively defending. If they fully lock it in, sure, you're fucked.
Dude, seriously, make up your mind. The question posed was can someone escape a reverse headscissor? That implies the hold is LOCKED IN. Are you, the average non-pro guy "fucked" or not when your head is fully caught between a session wrestler's thighs? That's the poster's question. My initial response was simply "Sure there are guys that can escape, but not all of them all of the time. lots of variables..." Pretty sure I covered that basis you and so many fantasy killers keep wasting time on. Also, if your'e saying escape is no problem then why is it that "your best defense is to not get caught"? Make up your minds.
Btw, of course your best defense is to not get caught, that's standard grappling protocol, goes without saying for any hold, especially REALLY DIFFICULT ONES TO BREAK FREE FROM.

"And sure, lets say that there are a couple of special women who could do this. Doesn't make it the rule or the majority. "

Who freaking cares about the majority rule? This is a fetish forum. We care about those minority instances where a woman legitimately is kicking your ass. Don't need reminders about how men are stronger, blah blah blah. Also, my last point was keeping it real. There are ways that a woman can apply a reverse headscissor that LEGITIMATELY takes a man by surprise and locks him in at least long enough to get a tap. Don't really care if you believe it or not, don't really care if it represents the majority of instances, or what happens on corny fetish videos (which I've already discounted anyway). It can happen and has happened and that's my point. I'm giving credence to the other side of reality that exists for which we all have a fanfare for or we wouldn't be indulging each other here on this forum to begin with.

Last edited by G-Force; 07-Feb-18 at 04:22.
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  #27  
Old 07-Feb-18, 05:45
HeadScissorFan HeadScissorFan is offline
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Allow me the pleasure of completely bodying your post, and logic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Force [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Dude, seriously, make up your mind.
I thought my mind was already made? Do you lack basic reading comprehension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadScissorFan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
best way to escape is to not get caught in it in the first place. managing to get a person in the full position w/ the guy actively resisting is not easy and if it's not locked in properly, he could likely fight his way out.

but yes. if they are an expert and they get you in the full position with the proper technique and actively go for the KO. You're probably not going to escape.
Now, lets get to the rest of that post of nothingness.


Quote:
The question posed was can someone escape a reverse headscissor?
So you can read


Quote:
That implies the hold is LOCKED IN.
But you don't understand. Pity. Let me explain

Me and several other posters have mentioned a fully locked RHS is basically hopeless to escape from

Me and several posters mentioned that the best defense is not getting caught

You replied to that individual, who said

Quote:
Originally Posted by Braddogg4345 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Pro or not, your not getting out of a reverse headscissor. The only way to get out would be if you can physically pick the girl up to get her to release the hold. But in the case of someone like Skyler, you would be unconscious before you even had a chance to ponder an escape.

along with
Quote:
Originally Posted by Braddogg4345 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Your best (and only) defense against a reverse scissor is definitely to avoid it in the first place. In reality, it is fairly difficult to get someone who doesnt want to be scissored into a perfect scissor hold. Especially a reverse scissor hold.

Do you comprehend? No? Then allow me to break this down even further for those whom are questionable when it comes to intelligence.(you)

He is saying that a reverse head scissor is hopeless to escape from when the hold is fully locked in. And that it's best to not get caught in the move in the first place.

I'm simply explaining why your post was completely and utterly stupid. The reverse head scissor is not the most practical move to aim to get a submission on in a fully competitive match. There are plenty of other moves that are better and usable in grappling situations. You replied to him, and I simply decided to point out the idiocy of your response to him

Quote:
Are you, the average non-pro guy "fucked" or not when your head is fully caught between a session wrestler's thighs? That's the poster's question.
Which we appropriately answered long before you, bird brain.


Quote:
Pretty sure I covered that basis you and so many fantasy killers keep wasting time on.
What a joke. "fantasy killers", we are not fantasy killers, Einstein. We are regular people acknowledging that this move is effective once locked in, but that you have a good chance of escaping from the attempted move, even if you are not a grappling pro.

It is that simple. The rest of your post is unneeded. You replied to him saying that it's a misconception that it's difficult to get someone in that hold who is actively resisting, and i called you out on that


Quote:
It can happen and has happened and that's my point
So it's happened? Mind providing us some "real" stories of a 5'2 woman destroying several 6' men in a fight all at once while at it. You said it, it must be true

In all seriousness, even if it has happened, it doesn't take away that it's still a difficult move to apply to on a resisting person. Which we've now been arguing about, because a lot of us already know once it's fully locked in and you try to escape then , things become much much harder.

But you'd know this if you read through the topic properly and didn't spend an absurd amount of time with that stick up your ass.

Last edited by HeadScissorFan; 07-Feb-18 at 12:48.
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  #28  
Old 07-Feb-18, 11:24
Karlchen Karlchen is offline
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by time2windis [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Say, Skylar Rene squeezing at full strength.

Is it physically possible for any non-pro to escape?

How about professional fighters?
A while ago Madame Lucrecia got me in that hold. In view of her advantage in weight and size There was no way for me to get out. When she turned onto her side, maintaining the reverse head scissors, my right arm was immobilized by our common weight, and she controlled my left arm with both her hands. Game over, no escape possible, at least not for me. She could have knocked me out in seconds.
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  #29  
Old 07-Feb-18, 14:08
G-Force
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadScissorFan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Allow me the pleasure of completely bodying your post, and logic.


I thought my mind was already made? Do you lack basic reading comprehension?



Now, lets get to the rest of that post of nothingness.



So you can read



But you don't understand. Pity. Let me explain

Me and several other posters have mentioned a fully locked RHS is basically hopeless to escape from

Me and several posters mentioned that the best defense is not getting caught

You replied to that individual, who said




along with



Do you comprehend? No? Then allow me to break this down even further for those whom are questionable when it comes to intelligence.(you)

He is saying that a reverse head scissor is hopeless to escape from when the hold is fully locked in. And that it's best to not get caught in the move in the first place.

I'm simply explaining why your post was completely and utterly stupid. The reverse head scissor is not the most practical move to aim to get a submission on in a fully competitive match. There are plenty of other moves that are better and usable in grappling situations. You replied to him, and I simply decided to point out the idiocy of your response to him


Which we appropriately answered long before you, bird brain.




What a joke. "fantasy killers", we are not fantasy killers, Einstein. We are regular people acknowledging that this move is effective once locked in, but that you have a good chance of escaping from the attempted move, even if you are not a grappling pro.

It is that simple. The rest of your post is unneeded. You replied to him saying that it's a misconception that it's difficult to get someone in that hold who is actively resisting, and i called you out on that



So it's happened? Mind providing us some "real" stories of a 5'2 woman destroying several 6' men in a fight all at once while at it. You said it, it must be true

In all seriousness, even if it has happened, it doesn't take away that it's still a difficult move to apply to on a resisting person. Which we've now been arguing about, because a lot of us already know once it's fully locked in and you try to escape then , things become much much harder.

But you'd know this if you read through the topic properly and didn't spend an absurd amount of time with that stick up your ass.
Ok, first of all, your'e a jackass. Secondly, since your lack of intellect doesn't allow you to have a conversation without resorting to insults, I will oblige, and use simple sentences. I will also try not to embarrass you any further. Let's sum your points.

"The reverse head scissor is not the most practical move to aim to get a submission on in a fully competitive match. There are plenty of other moves that are better and usable in grappling situations....." Really?? You don't say? Wow, what a newsflash. Can someone get Captain Obvious a prize?

"Me and several other posters have mentioned a fully locked RHS is basically hopeless to escape from..." Then you really are as dumb as you type. That's not true at all. It is perfectly escapable but it depends on several variables..AND THAT is the answer to the original question.

"You don't need to be Royce Gracie to escape from one"
hmmm, sounds like you're still confused here. Are they "hopeless" to escape from or are they escapable? Are you feeling ok? You still seem to be confused regarding the original question posed which had nothing to do with setting it up, or expecting it, or avoiding it...do you understand now moron?

Unlike you, I answered the question precisely and then proceeded to play devils advocate to the useless side point of avoiding it. You on the other hand, like others, insist on insulting the intelligence of most everyone here, wasting server space by digressing and chasing down a rabbit hole explaining how impractical it is in a grappling match versus other holds. Well no sh@t Sherlock. My point was to explain how in certain applications it can be maneuvered in stages like any BJJ hold where you wouldn't necessarily see it coming. That's it. I even went to the trouble here of detailing real examples which you still apparently missed. Furthermore, I never said it was as practical as a RNC or Triangle. Also, sure, anyone can avoid anything when they are EXPECTING it. Why do you bother with belaboring something that is common sense on a fetish forum? Nobody cares about your "regular people" reminders. Finally, please learn to read at a basic grade school level and COMPREHEND a question before commenting next time. You are dismissed.

Last edited by G-Force; 07-Feb-18 at 14:42.
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  #30  
Old 07-Feb-18, 14:21
wrestling47 wrestling47 is offline
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Default Re: Could a non-professional escape a reverse headscissor from a session wrestler?

Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Force [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Dude, seriously, make up your mind. The question posed was can someone escape a reverse headscissor? That implies the hold is LOCKED IN. Are you, the average non-pro guy "fucked" or not when your head is fully caught between a session wrestler's thighs? That's the poster's question. My initial response was simply "Sure there are guys that can escape, but not all of them all of the time. lots of variables..." Pretty sure I covered that basis you and so many fantasy killers keep wasting time on. Also, if your'e saying escape is no problem then why is it that "your best defense is to not get caught"? Make up your minds.
Btw, of course your best defense is to not get caught, that's standard grappling protocol, goes without saying for any hold, especially REALLY DIFFICULT ONES TO BREAK FREE FROM.

"And sure, lets say that there are a couple of special women who could do this. Doesn't make it the rule or the majority. "

Who freaking cares about the majority rule? This is a fetish forum. We care about those minority instances where a woman legitimately is kicking your ass. Don't need reminders about how men are stronger, blah blah blah. Also, my last point was keeping it real. There are ways that a woman can apply a reverse headscissor that LEGITIMATELY takes a man by surprise and locks him in at least long enough to get a tap. Don't really care if you believe it or not, don't really care if it represents the majority of instances, or what happens on corny fetish videos (which I've already discounted anyway). It can happen and has happened and that's my point. I'm giving credence to the other side of reality that exists for which we all have a fanfare for or we wouldn't be indulging each other here on this forum to begin with.
The transitional move you are talking about I've seen from ladies like Jenna from GG.

The first move comes from poor decision making from the guy, who is in a front on body scissor and puts his arms up to try and pry her ankles open. when he lifts his arms she can put him in a scissor. I saw Jenna do this nicely a number of times.

The second one I've seen Jenna do is the twist and the opposite side leg snaps the guy in a scissor hold. Its possible to get if the guy isn't aware of what's going on or is inexperienced. You can also see this from Liz Veyron. I still think you're better off going for an armbar though. I wish I still had my Jenna videos and I could screenshot it.
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