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  #21  
Old 16-Aug-12, 18:02
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

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Originally Posted by iluvwrestlegirls [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
All those arguments against women's physiology could also be applied to grappling, and yet it seems they are doing exceptionally well there judging by the countless videos racking up of females pinning/submitting males in competitive environments.

With regards boxing, I don't believe this is our question to answer. If a female feels ready and confident to do it, then she should be allowed to (of course).
There are so many "girls beat boys in high school" videos because it gets attention. When boys win it's a "meh" type of feeling. I've seen some vids of girls crying in their loss to a boy but the female beating male gets more attention. I wouldn't say girls are better at grappling/wrestling btw.

Obviously we can atleast insert our opinion. I've boxed for 6 months (I think) so I was just interested in the subject.

Yes if she really wants to she SHOULD be allowed, but there is more to it. Girls can get hurt in the striking game against males.

Boxing and wrestling are completely different.

Just my two cents tho.
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  #22  
Old 16-Aug-12, 18:46
iluvwrestlegirls iluvwrestlegirls is offline
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

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Originally Posted by Bane [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There are so many "girls beat boys in high school" videos because it gets attention. When boys win it's a "meh" type of feeling. I've seen some vids of girls crying in their loss to a boy but the female beating male gets more attention. I wouldn't say girls are better at grappling/wrestling btw.
There are a lot of videos out there of girls beating boys, because there are a lot of incidents of girls beating boys. Now whether there are more incidents of boys beating girls, that may well be the case. But I would like to see a breakdown of the statistics on which girls are beating/losing to which boys, so the gender lines can be drawn with clarity.

Until that is done, I will settle for saying that there are a lot of videos out there of girls beating boys under competitive conditions, which is frankly amazing when you look at the history of sports between the genders. And also I've seen boys cry after losing to a girl who wrecked his arm up a bit, I think the tears are more to do with the age of the combatants.

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Yes if she really wants to she SHOULD be allowed, but there is more to it. Girls can get hurt in the striking game against males.
Guys can get hurt in the striking game against males too. It's what a referee is for.

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Boxing and wrestling are completely different.
They are not "completely" different. For instance, they are both combat sports. Wrestling is in a way better than boxing, in the sense that if you put a grappler against a boxer, the boxer will lose.

Last edited by iluvwrestlegirls; 16-Aug-12 at 18:53.
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  #23  
Old 16-Aug-12, 18:57
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

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Originally Posted by iluvwrestlegirls [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There are a lot of videos out there of girls beating boys, because there are a lot of incidents of girls beating boys. Now whether there are more incidents of boys beating girls, that may well be the case. But I would like to see a breakdown of the statistics on which girls are beating/losing to which boys, so the gender lines can be drawn with clarity.

Until that is done, I will settle for saying that there are a lot of videos out there of girls beating boys under competitive conditions. And also I've seen boys cry after losing to a girl who wrecked his arm up a bit, I think the tears are more to do with the age of the combatants.



Guys can get hurt in the striking game against males too. It's what a referee is for.



They are not "completely" different. For instance, they are both combat sports. Wrestling is in a way better than boxing, in the sense that if you put a grappler against a boxer, the boxer will lose.
But there are also alot of males beating females. But it's just not interesting to people, it doesn't stand out. You do know that alot of guys probably will hold back against a girl. I'm not using stats it's just true. People want to hear of girls beating boys. It's a story.

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This girl isn't very happy.

That's because men have more muscle mass and bone density. The ref can stop a fight but their are refs that don't do their job properly. And the fight carries on. The ref can stop the fight all he wants girls can still get KO'd by males and taken out. That can do damage.

Yes, they are both combat sports. But they are COMPLETELY different. Boxing needs stances, jabs, technique, etc. It's complicated, I'd imagine wrestling is but they are totally different.

Can you name a female wrestler that would beat the likes of Mike Tyson? The wrestler doesn't always win.

There may be some male wrestlers but can you name a female fighter?
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  #24  
Old 16-Aug-12, 19:27
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

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Originally Posted by iluvwrestlegirls [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There are a lot of videos out there of girls beating boys, because there are a lot of incidents of girls beating boys. Now whether there are more incidents of boys beating girls, that may well be the case. But I would like to see a breakdown of the statistics on which girls are beating/losing to which boys, so the gender lines can be drawn with clarity.
even if it were the case that girls beating guys in wrestling/grappling were the norm (and i'm pretty sure its not. frequently these videos feature women who are far, far better trained than the men) the top level of any sport is very different from gym/club fights. again, ask lucia rijker, considered at the time the p4p best female kickboxer/boxer alive, how her one fight against a less-well trained, less-experienced, low-ranked male pro went. stats would be interesting, sure.

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Originally Posted by iluvwrestlegirls [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Until that is done, I will settle for saying that there are a lot of videos out there of girls beating boys under competitive conditions, which is frankly amazing when you look at the history of sports between the genders. And also I've seen boys cry after losing to a girl who wrecked his arm up a bit, I think the tears are more to do with the age of the combatants.
there are probably more videos of cars crashing than there are of cars doing the school run. bane is pretty much correct on why this is the case. the small number of girls who actually win these kinds of contests (look at who the champs are in hs wrestling or grappling) indicates that this is an exception rather than a rule. indeed i believe the majority of coaches and girls who wrestle at that level want there to be all-women teams as it is by their own admission harder against boys and hurts the development of a lot of the girls.

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Originally Posted by iluvwrestlegirls [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Guys can get hurt in the striking game against males too. It's what a referee is for.
indeed. but women are more likely to get hurt owing to the stuff enshadowed posted, which is both accurate and perceptive. also see my own point about weight cuts. there is a speed/strength differential even when adjusted for weight.

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Originally Posted by iluvwrestlegirls [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
They are not "completely" different. For instance, they are both combat sports. Wrestling is in a way better than boxing, in the sense that if you put a grappler against a boxer, the boxer will lose.
wrestler vs striker... thats an incredibly simplistic view of martial arts (ask tim sylvia) but lets go with it anyway because its totally irrelevant. they are different in the way you apply strength and speed, in the way weight and muscle-mass come in to play and - crucially! - in the difference between being *punched in the face* and not having that happen to u.

Last edited by sleepinbin; 16-Aug-12 at 19:49.
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  #25  
Old 16-Aug-12, 22:57
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

@iluvwrestlegirls

Not to get into too much of a flame war, but this is getting a little ridiculous. To say that because you think women can grapple with men that automatically that means they can strike with them, is completely and utterly false. They use totally different muscle groups and require entirely different skillsets.

In grappling, women have a huge advantage in flexibility. Anyone who has ever taken a jiu-jitsu class knows what a difference maker that can be. It makes you much harder to submit, and it also makes it easier for you to look for submissions, particularly off your back. Since most women are going to find themselves there do to the strength advantage of their male counterparts anyways, this plays perfectly right into their skillset. But even at that, however, it's still not the norm. It just grabs more attention when men are beaten, just like it would have been in headlines all over the world if Nigeria had beaten the USA at basketball. It's just not expected.

But let's transition back to boxing. Do you know what flexibility does in boxing? Almost zero. Do you know what wins boxing matches? Speed, explosiveness, power, and in that order. Women plain and simple just can't compete on the feet at the very highest levels of competition. This is not a sexist viewpoint, it's just a plain fact, and any woman who trains in those disciplines isn't offended by such. It doesn't make them any less skilled - but not knowing your limits is how people get hurt. And at the highest levels, a lot of women would get really and truly hurt. Nobody wants that, and that's why it doesn't happen.
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  #26  
Old 17-Aug-12, 00:43
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

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Originally Posted by Enshadowed [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
@iluvwrestlegirls

Not to get into too much of a flame war, but this is getting a little ridiculous. To say that because you think women can grapple with men that automatically that means they can strike with them, is completely and utterly false. They use totally different muscle groups and require entirely different skillsets.

In grappling, women have a huge advantage in flexibility. Anyone who has ever taken a jiu-jitsu class knows what a difference maker that can be. It makes you much harder to submit, and it also makes it easier for you to look for submissions, particularly off your back. Since most women are going to find themselves there do to the strength advantage of their male counterparts anyways, this plays perfectly right into their skillset. But even at that, however, it's still not the norm. It just grabs more attention when men are beaten, just like it would have been in headlines all over the world if Nigeria had beaten the USA at basketball. It's just not expected.

But let's transition back to boxing. Do you know what flexibility does in boxing? Almost zero. Do you know what wins boxing matches? Speed, explosiveness, power, and in that order. Women plain and simple just can't compete on the feet at the very highest levels of competition. This is not a sexist viewpoint, it's just a plain fact, and any woman who trains in those disciplines isn't offended by such. It doesn't make them any less skilled - but not knowing your limits is how people get hurt. And at the highest levels, a lot of women would get really and truly hurt. Nobody wants that, and that's why it doesn't happen.
again, this just absolutely nails it. well said.
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  #27  
Old 17-Aug-12, 01:52
iluvwrestlegirls iluvwrestlegirls is offline
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

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Originally Posted by sleepinbin [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
even if it were the case that girls beating guys in wrestling/grappling were the norm (and i'm pretty sure its not. frequently these videos feature women who are far, far better trained than the men) the top level of any sport is very different from gym/club fights. again, ask lucia rijker, considered at the time the p4p best female kickboxer/boxer alive, how her one fight against a less-well trained, less-experienced, low-ranked male pro went. stats would be interesting, sure.
They definitely would be interesting. And yes, the top level is different, but then Ronda seems different to other female fighters right now and she is at the very top.

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there are probably more videos of cars crashing than there are of cars doing the school run. bane is pretty much correct on why this is the case. the small number of girls who actually win these kinds of contests (look at who the champs are in hs wrestling or grappling) indicates that this is an exception rather than a rule.
You are massively underplaying the advancements girls have made in wrestling. There are not a "small number", this site is full of them, and there is even a video thread showing a girl winning an entire tournament. It may well be the case that males defeat females more often, but I'd still like to see proof of that, and even if it is true the female victories are a significant minority statistically.

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indeed. but women are more likely to get hurt owing to the stuff enshadowed posted, which is both accurate and perceptive. also see my own point about weight cuts. there is a speed/strength differential even when adjusted for weight.
Ok I will accept that women have less of a chance in striking. As pointed out, they do seem more suited to grappling. But I saw that video where Rijker apparently punched harder than a male boxing champ. And I don't think it was fake because she broke the machine and he didn't!

I am definitely more skeptical of women being as successful in striking than they are in grappling vs males, but my bigger point here is that if there is a woman who feels she wants to disprove that then nobody should have the right to stop her! Women are not so delicate that a proffessional and skilled and confident female fighter would just die after being hit by a gloved male boxer. If she's seriously battered then just referee it properly like you would with a male fighter (maybe even more cautious tbh)

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wrestler vs striker... thats an incredibly simplistic view of martial arts
Look, if you take a BOXER (who trains only in the Queensbury rules which dictate his sport) and a JIU JITSU/JUDO fighter (who again trains only within the rules of their sport) and put them in an MMA situation, the latter would win the vast, vast majority of the bouts.

It is slightly irrelevent, but I like it because it belittles this debate: who cares if women have a disadvantage in striking when they can throw you down and wrap you up in grapples anyway! <3

Last edited by iluvwrestlegirls; 17-Aug-12 at 02:12.
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  #28  
Old 17-Aug-12, 01:59
iluvwrestlegirls iluvwrestlegirls is offline
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

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Originally Posted by Enshadowed [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Not to get into too much of a flame war, but this is getting a little ridiculous. To say that because you think women can grapple with men that automatically that means they can strike with them, is completely and utterly false. They use totally different muscle groups and require entirely different skillsets.
Look, I'm not a warrior, ok. Consider me a layman. From my perspective, seeing a girl beat a guy in grappling is seeing a girl physically overpower a guy. It is SIMILAR to a boxing match. I accept women will probably face more of a disadvantage in striking.

But as I keep trying to say, if a woman comes along who feels she can overturn that then all power to her! Just as women have shown they can take on men in grappling (which don't get me wrong still totally blows my mind that it is real), they should be allowed to attempt to prove it in boxing also. There will be less women who do it than men because of the science reasons you detailed, but there will be exceptions.

Quote:
In grappling, women have a huge advantage in flexibility. Anyone who has ever taken a jiu-jitsu class knows what a difference maker that can be. It makes you much harder to submit, and it also makes it easier for you to look for submissions, particularly off your back. Since most women are going to find themselves there do to the strength advantage of their male counterparts anyways, this plays perfectly right into their skillset. But even at that, however, it's still not the norm. It just grabs more attention when men are beaten, just like it would have been in headlines all over the world if Nigeria had beaten the USA at basketball. It's just not expected.
It happens pretty fucking often! The videos seem to be just reaching critical mass here. I used to look at the girls winning and think "holy shit she's some kind of strength-freak!" but to be honest there are a ton of girls who can do it.

And hey, if women's flexibility gives them an ADVANTAGE in grappling (which it really is seeming to be the case to me, it can seem impossible to avoid their legs!) then I'd settle for that to counter their disadvantages in striking, especially considering grappling is generally more effective vs striking!

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and that's why it doesn't happen.
... yet.

What if you find a woman with abnormally thick bone density for a woman? What if her striking technique is SO good she generates comparable power to the men? I'd say to her "if you think you can, give it a shot!" and I'd certainly be routing for her.
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  #29  
Old 17-Aug-12, 02:00
iluvwrestlegirls iluvwrestlegirls is offline
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

Of course I have a fetish for strong females, so I have a bias in this debate, but I genuinely do believe women should be allowed to do whatever the fuck they want.
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  #30  
Old 17-Aug-12, 02:10
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Default Re: Should Mixed Boxing be permitted?

Its happened before. The women dominated. [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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