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Check out the latest release by Fight Pulse: Bianca vs Andreas.
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  #31  
Old 22-Nov-18, 17:00
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

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Originally Posted by mrbastard [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This point about the US being insanely litigious, or losing your house over a dog bite, is, with all due respect, urban myth. 90% of viable tort claimants never take any action. Most of those lose at summary judgment. The famous McDonald's coffee case that is usually brandished about in support of this notion stands for exactly the opposite point -- that the dreaded "litigious plaintiff with ambulance chaser" loses almost every time. A signed waiver in a claim that you got injured in a combat sport you sought out and engaged in would actually be very important, if not a slam dunk. There are major sports, e.g., hockey, football, that occasionally see lawsuits or criminal charges for something egregiously violent, but those are extremely rare where the sport is inherently violent.


If lawsuits were driving video productions to other countries, the U.S. would have no schools that teach combat arts.

Like any other business, video makers can get insurance.

If someone sees dollar signs from a producer's dog nipping them, they will learn how the world works when they call that producer's insurance.
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  #32  
Old 22-Nov-18, 19:54
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Default Re: declining video content

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbastard [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This point about the US being insanely litigious, or losing your house over a dog bite, is, with all due respect, urban myth.
Mmm.....

Quote:
A signed waiver in a claim that you got injured in a combat sport you sought out and engaged in would actually be very important, if not a slam dunk.
100% false.

Tort laws vary from state-to-state, but your "release form" means nothing if you - as a producer - are found to be negligent. And if you are filming what can be characterized as a street fight, you will be. The release protects your rights to use the content, but does not protect you in case of injury due to negligence and it may not even protect you against accidents. The release and waiver signed by a person who is engaging in a licensed combat sport is NOT the same as the release signed by a fetish video model. If you try to present your fetish video production as a "sport", you will be compelled to produce the license from a recognized sanctioning body. You won't have one. Are wrestling video producers in the habit of having licensed officials in charge of the "matches"?

A "signed waiver" will discourage most people - especially those with limited resources - from seeking counsel. But if a model decides to sue and a producer is found to be negligent of having done their due diligence - e.g. not having licensed officials or EMTs present - the model is going to win. As to the question of damages that can be collected, well, that will depend on a number of factors, not the least of which is how much a producer earns or is worth.

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Originally Posted by ClckwrkOra [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
If lawsuits were driving video productions to other countries, the U.S. would have no schools that teach combat arts.
I'm not sure why you think these two things are remotely analogous, but for everyone else out there, the author of this statement - ClckwrkOra - is using an extremely poorly crafted strawman argument. An appeal to the absurd, perhaps?

Quote:
Like any other business, video makers can get insurance.
Yes and no.

1) Event insurance is generally cost-prohibitive in the low- to mid-budget fetish video space.
2) Not every event can qualify for underwriting.
3) Even if a company agrees to provide insurance, they may still require certain participants to be bonded.

Quote:
If someone sees dollar signs from a producer's dog nipping them, they will learn how the world works when they call that producer's insurance.
It seems that you two have no understanding whatsoever about personal liability arising from negligence, but are quite willing to be very bold with other people's money.
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  #33  
Old 22-Nov-18, 21:55
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Mmm.....


100% false.

Tort laws vary from state-to-state, but your "release form" means nothing if you - as a producer - are found to be negligent. And if you are filming what can be characterized as a street fight, you will be. The release protects your rights to use the content, but does not protect you in case of injury due to negligence and it may not even protect you against accidents. The release and waiver signed by a person who is engaging in a licensed combat sport is NOT the same as the release signed by a fetish video model. If you try to present your fetish video production as a "sport", you will be compelled to produce the license from a recognized sanctioning body. You won't have one. Are wrestling video producers in the habit of having licensed officials in charge of the "matches"?

A "signed waiver" will discourage most people - especially those with limited resources - from seeking counsel. But if a model decides to sue and a producer is found to be negligent of having done their due diligence - e.g. not having licensed officials or EMTs present - the model is going to win. As to the question of damages that can be collected, well, that will depend on a number of factors, not the least of which is how much a producer earns or is worth.


I'm not sure why you think these two things are remotely analogous, but for everyone else out there, the author of this statement - ClckwrkOra - is using an extremely poorly crafted strawman argument. An appeal to the absurd, perhaps?


Yes and no.

1) Event insurance is generally cost-prohibitive in the low- to mid-budget fetish video space.
2) Not every event can qualify for underwriting.
3) Even if a company agrees to provide insurance, they may still require certain participants to be bonded.


It seems that you two have no understanding whatsoever about personal liability arising from negligence, but are quite willing to be very bold with other people's money.

The original argument was that it’s impossible for makers of fetish wrestling/fight videos to film in the states because of possible lawsuits from people injured in making them.

If that were true, it would be impossible to teach combat arts here, as anyone who did would be susceptible to the same lawsuits from people injured while training on the teacher’s watch.

In both cases, insurance deals with would-be ambulance chasers.
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  #34  
Old 24-Nov-18, 14:12
The Corner Man The Corner Man is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

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Originally Posted by ClckwrkOra [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This point about the US being insanely litigious, or losing your house over a dog bite, is, with all due respect, urban myth
Actually, in the State of California, you are responsible for your dog biting someone, period. If I come over your house for a cup of coffee, to say "hi", to sell you Girl Scout cookies, whatever, if your dog bites me, you are liable. Maybe urban myth for other things, but not for dog bites.

If I come over your house to wrestle and I get injured, well, I assumed the risk of injury when I agreed to wrestle. Courts will vary in their decision as to the amount of responsibility each person has (unless there was negligence involved).

P.S. Please don't take offense by my dog bite comment as I'm not trying to be critical of your post, but rather pass along my previous experience in a law suit.

Last edited by The Corner Man; 24-Nov-18 at 14:19.
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  #35  
Old 24-Nov-18, 20:51
jon snow jon snow is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Doom Maidens, Fight Pulse, Absolute Mixed Wrestling, WrestlingMonica to name but a few all make content as good as anything made back in the day. Ultimately it comes down to how good the girls are and how good the jobbers are, I would say that the likes of Tia, Ariel X, Veve, Sheena, Axa and Sativa more than hold their own against the girls of yesteryear both in terms of skill and attractiveness. If anything I would say there's more of problem finding good quality jobbers, guys who will put up a good fight and make for interesting matches against a variety of girls.

For those of you complaining about the quality of beatdowns the recent MMA style match between Veve and Mark was far better anything made by shefights or anyone else.

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  #36  
Old 25-Nov-18, 18:10
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Corner Man [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Actually, in the State of California, you are responsible for your dog biting someone, period. If I come over your house for a cup of coffee, to say "hi", to sell you Girl Scout cookies, whatever, if your dog bites me, you are liable. Maybe urban myth for other things, but not for dog bites.

If I come over your house to wrestle and I get injured, well, I assumed the risk of injury when I agreed to wrestle. Courts will vary in their decision as to the amount of responsibility each person has (unless there was negligence involved).

P.S. Please don't take offense by my dog bite comment as I'm not trying to be critical of your post, but rather pass along my previous experience in a law suit.

No offense taken. I'm not disputing that dog owners have legal liability for what their critters do.

My point is just that people won't get rich suing over minor injuries.

I say this partly because I once worked in support roles in California for lawyers who brought personal injury cases.
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  #37  
Old 25-Nov-18, 19:59
The Corner Man The Corner Man is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClckwrkOra [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
No offense taken. I'm not disputing that dog owners have legal liability for what their critters do.

My point is just that people won't get rich suing over minor injuries.

I say this partly because I once worked in support roles in California for lawyers who brought personal injury cases.
I bet you could tell some good stories there...
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  #38  
Old 25-Nov-18, 20:37
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

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Originally Posted by The Corner Man [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I bet you could tell some good stories there...

Let me put it this way:

When two sides fight in court, the only winners are their lawyers.

It's unreal how much time, money and effort that lawsuits chew up.
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  #39  
Old 26-Nov-18, 19:24
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Default Re: declining video content

Quote:
Originally Posted by ClckwrkOra [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
My point is just that people won't get rich suing over minor injuries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClckwrkOra [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
When two sides fight in court, the only winners are their lawyers.

It's unreal how much time, money and effort that lawsuits chew up.
Exactly right - and all that it takes to initiate a costly lawsuit is a minor injury. It's not that some model will "get rich" from a sprained ankle or a couple of bruises - if you're only worth $25,000 (let's say you have a car and a checking account and a $60K/year job), the injured party is not going to "get rich", but you could lose a significant portion of what you have, including future earnings. It's unlikely, but what if there's a freaky fall during a *scripted* segment that results in a broken wrist that requires surgery? What if the person who got hurt has no medical insurance of their own? What if they miss 4 days of work?

Ten years ago, I could shoot pretty much whatever I wanted (that was legal, of course!), but I would be a fool to take those risks today. There is simply not enough upside to justify it. YMMV.
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  #40  
Old 26-Nov-18, 19:44
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Exactly right - and all that it takes to initiate a costly lawsuit is a minor injury. It's not that some model will "get rich" from a sprained ankle or a couple of bruises - if you're only worth $25,000 (let's say you have a car and a checking account and a $60K/year job), the injured party is not going to "get rich", but you could lose a significant portion of what you have, including future earnings. It's unlikely, but what if there's a freaky fall during a *scripted* segment that results in a broken wrist that requires surgery? What if the person who got hurt has no medical insurance of their own? What if they miss 4 days of work?

Ten years ago, I could shoot pretty much whatever I wanted (that was legal, of course!), but I would be a fool to take those risks today. There is simply not enough upside to justify it. YMMV.

Lawsuits are generally where insurance steps in.

Suing over a minor injury will, best case, get your case punted to small claims court - where you have to represent yourself.

Worst case, threatening/filing a frivolous suit will result in the judge tossing your case and making you pay the other side's attorneys fees and costs.
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