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  #311  
Old 18-Jun-17, 00:03
AlwaysBlue332 AlwaysBlue332 is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

The power in that kick, good game.
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  #312  
Old 18-Jun-17, 01:31
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Default Re: Holly Holm

Lol, I thought the fight was going to be tonight till I saw it show up on youtube! Good for Holly, she was overly cautious, but somewhat understandable. She'd be finished if she lost to Bethe. Even a skin-of-the-teeth 1 point victory was absolutely essential for her. Maybe she can be more aggressive for her next fight, one can always hope...
Who should be her next fight? I figure Cat or Julianna. If Amanda wins it'd be a stretch for Holly to get the next title shot...but maybe
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  #313  
Old 18-Jun-17, 01:39
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

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Originally Posted by stymie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Lol, I thought the fight was going to be tonight till I saw it show up on youtube! Good for Holly, she was overly cautious, but somewhat understandable. She'd be finished if she lost to Bethe. Even a skin-of-the-teeth 1 point victory was absolutely essential for her. Maybe she can be more aggressive for her next fight, one can always hope...
Who should be her next fight? I figure Cat or Julianna. If Amanda wins it'd be a stretch for Holly to get the next title shot...but maybe
Yes, IF Amanda wins... Because you can be sure that Holly wants absolutely nothing to do with Valentina anymore. My favorite girl Valentina was really dominant in that performance against Holm and would do that to her again. I really think she's just on another level at this point.

I think Holly "Valentina Shevchenko's daughter" Holm should try to silence Julianna Pena who called her "harmless Holly" and talked trash about her. For some reason Holly seems to do well against girls who talk trash.

Out of the top girls she should try to get Nunes or Cyborg who are aggressive and would maybe walk into her counterpunching style.
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  #314  
Old 18-Jun-17, 10:14
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Default Re: Holly Holm

I never saw much of Holly's Boxing career, but it's strange that she doesn't have better hands and varied striking. She has a good straight left and sets up her kicks well, but she is not very good at winning rounds. A lot of people thought she didn't do enough against Raquel Pennington in her UFC debut.

Her biggest strength is her movement and ability to control distance, but in her fights with Germaine and especially Valentina, she was made to look average, technically. One area of the fight she was strong against both was in the clinch where she was able to press both against the cage.

If Nunes defends against Shevchenko, I wouldn't be against Holly getting another title shot, but I think Sara McMann is on a good streak and has been vocal about wanting another title shot. If Shevchenko takes the title, I'd like to see her fight Sara McMann.
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  #315  
Old 18-Jun-17, 10:26
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I never saw much of Holly's Boxing career, but it's strange that she doesn't have better hands and varied striking. She has a good straight left and sets up her kicks well, but she is not very good at winning rounds. A lot of people thought she didn't do enough against Raquel Pennington in her UFC debut.

Her biggest strength is her movement and ability to control distance, but in her fights with Germaine and especially Valentina, she was made to look average, technically. One area of the fight she was strong against both was in the clinch where she was able to press both against the cage.

If Nunes defends against Shevchenko, I wouldn't be against Holly getting another title shot, but I think Sara McMann is on a good streak and has been vocal about wanting another title shot. If Shevchenko takes the title, I'd like to see her fight Sara McMann.
I guess women boxing must have been really low level when Holly fought, or maybe she was just more athletic back then and her style worked better.

In general though the level of boxing in the UFC is poor. I watched the Kovalev vs Ward fight today and while it was controversial you see just what a huge difference it is between high level boxing and the UFC. Kovalev and Ward were constantly making feints, employed head movement and looked much more fluid and relaxed. High level boxing is just such an aesthetic art and so beautiful to watch. There's just so much going on even if the punches aren't landing.

Women boxing has improved dramatically, if you look at Katie Taylor, Claressa Shields or my favorite girl Christina Hammer those girls are very sound when it comes to technique. They do certain things very well and seem to move around the ring comfortably. Holm just isn't on that level for some reason. Her lack of a jab is the biggest problem IMO. I think developing a solid southpaw jab to the body would solve a lot of her problems but it seems that her trainers (which aren't proper boxing trainers) don't believe in the jab to the body, it's very underused in MMA in general. I remember Nate Diaz using it and it works pretty well for him.

Holly just doens't have a range finding punch where she would just gauge distance with something. She seems to just either rush forward or wait.
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  #316  
Old 18-Jun-17, 11:21
The Corner Man The Corner Man is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

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Originally Posted by al89 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'm not a Bethe fan but I think you're a bit unfair here. She never talked trash about Ronda's dad suicide, she just said to Ronda that she hopes she doesn't commit a suicide after losing to her. It's far-fetched to assume that she knew about Ronda's dad making suicide and that she made a comment about it because of it.

Also, all the successful athletes are arrogant individuals, especially the fighters. The ones who appear they're not are just fake. You can't be a fierce competitor and not be arrogant when your only goal in life is to be superior to other people. I never understood why people want athletes to be "likeable". They're not like regular people and shouldn't be like them. I actually often like if they're mean and nasty.

After the fight Holly Holm was making jokes and laughed about her knocked out opponent who could suffer head trauma because of it. I'm not holding that against her and I like her, but I doubt everyone would see that as a "good soul".

Bethe talks trash just like a lot of other fighters do. I think that the mostly American fan base just see the trash talk of non-English speaking fighters as more vicious and mean because of the cultural differences and a lot gets lost in translation, that's why not a single foreign (not born in an English speaking country) trash talker was ever popular in the USA why people like Brock Lesnar or Conor McGregor are loved by many. Another example is the Russian boxer Sergey Kovalev who fights today and is seen as this vicious psycho by the Americans because they don't understand his humor because of the cultural differences when he's actually a funny guy.

By the way I'm also happy for Holm, would like to see her fight Cyborg just to see how they match up.
I don't think I was "unfair". Even implying a fighter would commit suicide is not cool. As a professional martial artist, I guess I just expect a bit more character out of people, which is probably "unfair".

As for "You can't be a fierce competitor and not be arrogant when your only goal in life is to be superior to other people." Sure you can. I trained with Jim "Ronin" Harrison and he is an incredibly kind and humble person.

BUT, we all have different ideas on things, so I see where you are coming from...
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  #317  
Old 18-Jun-17, 14:56
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Maitsek Maitsek is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

I think the limits in trash-talking are not easily defined, because the whole thing is not supposed to be serious and the fighters do not mean to really "harm" their opponents (Bethe's comment about suicide was awkward and hurtful but she didn't know what she was talking about).
Trash-talking can be both a superficial and important weapon because it is a way for the athletes to keep self-confidence, to put some pressure to the opponent....but at the end the words are "empty".
About the superiority aspects, i understand that athletes need to believe in themselves and then the reality of fights/matches is the same for everybody...even the best will be down at some time in a life.

About the recent fight, i am happy for Holly as she absolutely needed this win.
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  #318  
Old 18-Jun-17, 15:47
jesspin jesspin is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

Holly is great. As a boxer she had a more defensive style like Mayweather. Some boxers are like Tyson and just come in swinging bombs. The defensive style is boring to watch but is great if your into technicality. She came into MMA very late, and it is a difficult translation as now your looking at being grabbed, kicks, and backfists that are new to you. That means it takes even longer to find your range and pick your shots. It also means if you wait too long you end up losing on points as she has. Sometimes you just have to go in and throw caution to the wind. If Holly had started MMA sooner, she would have been one of the best ever.
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  #319  
Old 18-Jun-17, 21:13
al89 al89 is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

I think Holm's boxing regressed a lot after she came to MMA. She was past her physical prime already and her style relies a lot on speed and athleticism. Then she had to train a lot of grappling and kicking and couldn't give total attention to boxing anymore. Her training camp instilled some side kicks into her MMA game and just focused on a limited number of boxing techniques.

Also, her boxing career is a bit overrated, she never fought outside of New Mexico. American fighters just always get a bit more hype. Modern women boxers like Katie Taylor are just way better and more sound technically than she ever was, women boxing is improving!

Holm has been largely figured out in MMA but there still aren't many girls who can actually implement that gameplan despite knowing what they should be doing. Holm's style could still give Cyborg and Nunes a lot of trouble and she should be pursuing those fights.

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Originally Posted by The Corner Man [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I don't think I was "unfair". Even implying a fighter would commit suicide is not cool. As a professional martial artist, I guess I just expect a bit more character out of people, which is probably "unfair".

As for "You can't be a fierce competitor and not be arrogant when your only goal in life is to be superior to other people." Sure you can. I trained with Jim "Ronin" Harrison and he is an incredibly kind and humble person.

BUT, we all have different ideas on things, so I see where you are coming from...
You have to understand that there are linguistic and cultural barriers. Certain things just sound differently in different cultures and languages. Also, these athletes are under constant attention and everything they say gets quoted, often out of context. Personally I couldn't care less really what kind of trash they talk.

I don't want athletes to be humble either, I prefer them to be arrogant and competitive. I'm more of a boxing guy than a proponent of martial arts spirit though, my idols were guys like Ali and Tyson who were hardly humble. Mike Tyson was saying things about eating his opponent's children and killing his opponents in the ring and was just a very scary individual, but we all loved him!
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  #320  
Old 28-Sep-17, 06:54
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Royh Royh is offline
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Default Re: Holly Holm

Cris Cyborg announced in her Facebook page that Holm-Cyborg will be taking place on December 30 UFC 219 !!! Didn't see an official UFC announcement yet though
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