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Old 25-Jun-14, 02:32
Peter07 Peter07 is offline
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Default Re: The safety of smother KOs

1.5 Concussions/ head trauma

Also I did not talk about concussions (being knocked out by head trauma). I have experienced a bad concussion before in a motocross accident with a helmet on. From my understanding a blood choke KO may cause temporary confusion (where am I? How much time went by? What happened?) for a few seconds after waking up. However, during a concussion I went to the emergency room (I don't remember how I got there). I was asked the month (It was May), but I had no idea. I started at December and named all the months (I also had no idea what I did that entire day, week or year). I was in this state of confusion for a day or two. Definitely extremely dangerous. I guess I was knocked out during the accident because I was unresponsive for a minute. This is very dangerous because during a concussion the very fragile brain hits the inside of the skull. I was extremely lucky that I did not get any apparent permanent brain damage. A concussion from head trauma is NOT the same as a blood choke.

I should also note there is not a lot of literature/research on this type of stuff because it would be unethical to do research on human beings on this choking/smothering stuff. There is an Institutional review board (IRB) which determines the risk-benefit on whether a particular research study should be done on humans. Having said this there was a University of Calgary study done on blood chokes not too long ago. I am guessing they deemed the blood choke risk-benefit worth doing. The research was done on 24 healthy police officers. The study found that blood chokes are commonly associated with brief involuntary muscle jerking, narrowing of visual field, and entering into a dream-like state. The study also found that recovery was immediate when the blood choke was released with no observed or reported negative side effects. The study did mention one should be very careful/not apply the blood chokes to unhealthy or older people.

Deaths from suffocation/smothering

A woman named Mia Landingham measuring 5ft 9in tall and weighing 350 pounds sat on boyfriends face while he was laying on the couch during some type of argument. He was 5ft 10in tall and weighed 126 pounds.

A woman named Donna Lange smothered boyfriend with breasts and killed him. She was 5 ft 6in tall and 192 pounds. He was 5 ft 7in tall and 175 pounds.

A UK woman smothered her boyfriend with 40LL breasts when they were having sex. Apparently she thought his flailing was from excitement. He stopped moving and appeared to not be breathing. Luckily the guy regained consciousness.

As you can see from these stories of deaths from smothers there is a very fine line between living and dying from suffocation. I will say however, that it appears that these woman were way bigger than those guys so they were completely helpless. In the first story the woman was 350 pounds and the guy was only 126 pounds so even if the guy wanted to take a breath he would have no chance, that is a crazy amount of weight to be under. I am sure these guys died within 5 minutes for sure. It really depends on whether or not they took a deep breath before they were smothered. Take me for example if I breath all the air out of my lungs and try to hold my breath I can only hold it about 15 seconds. Meaning I could pass out in a smother in 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds, this would be painful. If you ever tried holding your breath you can tell it is not a pleasant experience once you run out of useable oxygen. If I take a deep breath in I can hold my breath for about 2 minutes 45 seconds. After this point I really struggle to hold my breath. This is when it becomes dangerous. In this case I might passout after 3-4 minutes. (note I am in good shape and used to practice holding my breath a lot in the pool, I also don't smoke). Also when I hold my breath I am not moving. This is very important because the more I move the more energy that requires and the body requires more oxygen to create more ATP (energy) for this added movement. So If I took a deep breath and held my breath for as long as possible but this time I started walking around or flailing my arms I would run out of oxygen faster that is stored in the hemoglobin in my blood. So maybe moving around I would only be able to hold my breath for 1 minute 30 seconds. A good example of this is if you ever swim in a large pool and you hold your breath underwater holding completely still you will notice that you will be able to hold your breath for a longer period than if you started swimming laps underwater while holding your breath. If you hold your breath close to the limit you will also notice you will feel really tired. This is because you depleted the stored oxygen in your body (our bodies are not efficient at storing oxygen). Remember our bodies require ATP (energy) to move our muscles, contract our heart, and keep our brain alive. You need oxygen to create ATP to fuel the processes the body needs to function like muscle movement.

“Raoul Fulgurex” to answer your two questions...

1) When you struggle against a smother you are depleting your stored oxygen supply much faster. Our bodies mainly store oxygen in our red blood cells and more specifically in hemoglobin. Hemoglobin is what transports oxygen throughout our bodies. Oxygen attaches itself to hemoglobin. So you are partially correct yes if your mouth/nose are covered you have the same amount of oxygen inside your body regardless of whether you struggle or not, BUT when you are struggling that stored oxygen you have attached to your hemoglobin in red blood cells is being used up much faster because your body is using your stored oxygen to create ATP(energy) for you to move your muscles (arms and legs) around. Therefore, I would say if you are struggling you are going to pass out faster. It is not less dangerous than hyperventilation because during hyperventilation you are just “tricking” your body and besides during a blood choke you pass out in 5-10 seconds if done correctly, therefore In terms of oxygen loss a blood choke would be like holding your breath for 5-10 seconds (sort of). So your heart and other organs can still get oxygen even in the worse case scenario that your trachea was accidentally compressed (dangerous to compress trachea). I should note that your brain cannot store oxygen. The brain is not a muscle it is composed mainly of fat (fat allows transmission of signals to move faster between neurons). However, in a blood choke there is still blood going to head if done correctly through small arteries deep in neck. The main arteries cut off in a blood choke are the carotid arteries which decreases blood flow a certain percentage (I think like 15%) just enough to shut off frontal lobe of brain in order to preserve oxygen so the victim falls asleep (KO). Also during smothering and blood chokes the heart rate speeds up trying to pump more blood carrying oxygen throughout body that is why people with bad hearts or in poor health should not be put in blood chokes or smothers. This elevated heart rate could cause a heart attack and heart failure. My heart usually elevates to a rate at a brisk walk maybe jogging rate. To move back to question during a smother you are not hyperventilating by struggling you are just using up your oxygen faster. Also in terms of blood chokes vs smothering I definitely have suddenly passed out quickly with a blood choke without even realizing it was coming. During a smother it is a slow painful process I feel like you should start feeling when you are close to passing out. Before passing out I am sure the person will try to claw their way out and fight for their lives to breath. Their stomachs may start to move up and down trying to make breathing motions when they are really low on oxygen. If you look at the three stories above about the woman smothering their boyfriends they were definitely overpowering them to the point that they could not do a thing. Even when they were trying their very best to get out. Unlike blood chokes were you might “tap one tenth of a second too late” and be knocked out a smother will be slow and I am sure you would tap out like 25 times before passing out. In this case someone would really have to force you to be smothered and ignore all tapping.

2) I am not sure about chest squeezing KO's, I do not know a ton about them and I do not mess with stuff I am uncertain about. I do know it is dangerous to mess with the vagus nerve because it regulates heartbeat and muscle movement needed for breathing, which are two fundamental processes needed for survival. I would imagine people in poor health, with heart conditions, or sensitive vagus nerves would be most prone to a complication. I might try it someday if I find a woman willing to do it. Just so I can experience it and better understand it. I will never experiment with smothering/air chokes to the point of pass out. I may just try them to put myself near the limit, however, I will make sure to have safety measures in place so the woman knows when to stop smothering/air choking. Air chokes would have to be gentle on throat though to prevent injury. You could very well be correct “Raoul Fulgurex” about the vagus nerve because this knockout can occur in as little as 10 seconds so it most likely does not involve oxygen depletion like smothering. Unless the woman is squeezing your stomach so hard that you can't breath for 2-3 minutes kind of like an anaconda. Also ribs are somewhat fragile they do have movement but I have experienced broken ribs in a motocross accident and it is the worst pain I have ever felt every time I moved, breathed, laughed it hurt. I am sure a strong enough woman can break ribs if squeezing hard enough, the broken rib itself is probably not life threatening, however, if it punctures lungs and they collapse that is life threatening as well as a heart puncture or organ puncture. So just be careful not to have your ribs crushed at full force from a female capable of crushing ribs.

Also in relation to blood chokes. I have a feeling that it is easier to choke out skinny, tall, fit people that have a low blood pressure vs a person that is shorter, obese, that have a high blood pressure. Here is my reasoning. The blood choke relies on completely compressing the carotid arteries on both sides of the neck (the main arteries with a pulse on the neck on both sides of the trachea), If a person has a high blood pressure that means that the heart is pumping harder to move blood through the body so the blood is moving faster. I think of it as a garden hose if the water is turned on high then it is harder to compress the hose (high blood pressure). If the hose has water moving slowly then it is easier to compress the hose (low blood pressure). So in a person that has high blood pressure it might be a little more difficult to completely compress both carotid arteries. I am not 100% certain on this but I have noticed a trend. I am 6ft 3in in height and when I would do a ton of cardio and weighed 170 pounds I noticed I would almost faint when I stood up too quickly from the sofa. I had a low blood pressure. When I would hyperventilate, stand up quickly, and compress both arteries on my neck I passed out very quickly and without much effort. On the other hand, when I stopped cardio exercise, ate “junk” food and weighed 190 pounds with a higher blood pressure it was more difficult to knock myself out. As for being tall causing fainting more quickly I think it has to do with it taking a longer time for blood to reach the head in taller people. Again this is only a theory of mine. I am not 100% sure of its validity.
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