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  #371  
Old 06-Dec-20, 03:27
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
By the same token as NFL players, you can take big female olympic throwers like Valerie Adams, Sandra Perkovic and Shelbi Vaughan and they'd simply just squish a lot of little try-hard males.

Does it really matter that this little, unathletic Indian guy might know a bit of Jits from classes twice a week for the last 6 years, or would Adams just maul him like a Momma bear with a cub? It's basically adult vs. child.
You are basically describing myself and my main fantasy.

I'm a very small, weak and unathletic guy with "just a bit of jiu-jitsu knowledge", altough it should be noted it was still enough to submit plenty of much bigger and stronger men, even with a weight disadvantage of over 100/120 lbs in some cases.

My fantasy is facing a super strong (yet still attractive) woman with zero technique or grappling knowldege whatsoever that can still easily overpower with me with brute strenght, making my superior fighting skills useless.

Unfortunately I never had the pleasure to make it come true, since I have never met a woman so strong in real life and session wrestlers who offer competitive session are obviously all skilled.
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  #372  
Old 06-Dec-20, 15:02
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You are basically describing myself and my main fantasy.

I'm a very small, weak and unathletic guy with "just a bit of jiu-jitsu knowledge", altough it should be noted it was still enough to submit plenty of much bigger and stronger men, even with a weight disadvantage of over 100/120 lbs in some cases.

My fantasy is facing a super strong (yet still attractive) woman with zero technique or grappling knowldege whatsoever that can still easily overpower with me with brute strenght, making my superior fighting skills useless.

Unfortunately I never had the pleasure to make it come true, since I have never met a woman so strong in real life and session wrestlers who offer competitive session are obviously all skilled.
Size
Size and Strength
Size, Strength & Athleticism

Each one is a step that makes it harder for the person relying on skill.

I subscribe to Ramsey Dewey on YouTube - he's a Coach and former MMA fighter. He's always trying to drive home the point to people that martial arts is not magical, just merely a system that can improve your odds in a physical altercation.

Here at 1:40 he talks about having to tap out when a 400lb guy was in his guard. And Dewey is a fairly robustly built guy - 6ft, 200lbs.



Size alone is perhaps the easiest thing to bridge if strength and athleticism are more or less equal. Very few human beings are athletic and agile above 250lbs anyway. In most cases they are just fat fucks and bumbling oafs whose weight is more hinderance than help, slowing them down and tiring them out faster. The the more weight however, the harder it's going to be to physically manipulate.

When it comes to brute strength, there is also a huge difference between;
  • A completely untrained person / weight training newbie
  • A consistent gym-goer with 2-3+ years of weight training
  • An advanced, talented weightlifter with 5-10+ years of lifting

The consistent gym goer might be 2-3 times stronger than an untrained person. Probably benching in the 200s compared to the untrained person struggling to top 90-100lbs. At that point, they can already be a handful, maybe offer good resistance to an armbar in the spiderweb position but in most cases, not enough to outright power out of submission attempts.

But between an advanced, immensely strong lifter and untrained person, there does exist that disparity where they can just take your wrist/ankle and peel it off or scoop and slam you at will. You look at someone like Rampage Jackson slamming 200lb Ricardo Arona from a triangle attempt. Now imagine what he'd do to a puny 130lb person that tried to triangle him from their guard.
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  #373  
Old 06-Dec-20, 21:11
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Sure, it's always conceivable, especially if the big NFL player was completely uninitiated and even a little naive to the effectiveness of these Jiu-Jitsu techniques AND the woman was very skilled, athletic and strong in her own right - a Bia Mesquita for example. I think such a woman would be VERY few and far between to tap such a big athletic hulk. Size, strength and athleticism combined is very difficult to overcome if you're behind in all three of those categories and only have knowledge and experience in your favour and there is a point where a significant size/strength/athleticism gap will make it insurmountable.

For me, athleticism is perhaps the most important factor of all. Athleticism transcends activity and is the catalyst for skill - the level at which one can perform and level of mastery one can display.

Give an athletically gifted person some tutelage and they're invariably going to do more with it than an average or less athletically gifted person. That's why someone like Greg Hardy can go from the NFL to UFC and need very little time to adapt and almost immediately be competing at a high level. It's why people say "give Serena Williams a year to train and she'd beat such-and-such WMMA fighter" and I believe them. Maybe not the likes of Nunes, Cyborg, Shevchenko, etc, who are athletic she-studs themselves (Cyborg was a national level handball player) but the likes of Roxanne Modaferri, who might boast 20 years MMA experience, black belt BJJ, brown belt Judo, but still have nowhere near the athleticism of Williams thus nowhere near the competitive sporting potential.

As I've said before, thinking we all start from the same place when learning a new skill and have the same ceiling of potential based on time and effort put forward is a huge fallacy.
I completely agree with everything you said here.

Quote:
I subscribe to Ramsey Dewey on YouTube - he's a Coach and former MMA fighter. He's always trying to drive home the point to people that martial arts is not magical, just merely a system that can improve your odds in a physical altercation.
I also follow Ramsey Dewsey and I have watched his video, but he was wrong on the match he was talking about tough.
He believed that Zack and Kody were legit evenly matched, while in reality Kody (who is Zack's friend and trainer) was going easy and letting him work to help him practice, but he could have submitted him rather easily if he wanted.
I tought it was pretty clear (eg. he clearly let him out from back mount, he didn't take many opportunities etc....).

It's not my assumption by the way, Zack himsels admitted it when talking about his match on Reddit:
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Ramsey's general points are correct, but I still think he underestimate a bit how much technique, knowledge and experience can overcame an overall physical inferiority.

Quote:
Here at 1:40 he talks about having to tap out when a 400lb guy was in his guard. And Dewey is a fairly robustly built guy - 6ft, 200lbs.
Ramsey is a robust and athletic guy, and I think that's exactly the reason why he underestimates knowledge and experience's potential in dealing with an enormous physical'gap despite being an experienced fighter and a smart guy.
I have noticed is pretty common among trained grappler of above average size and strenght.

That's because facing someone that massively outclass them both physically and athletically it's extremely rare for them, the exception to the rule, therefore they don't get used to it and don't develop a game/strategy and mindset based around overcaming that.

The vast majority of grappling techniques work against much bigger and stronger guys, but only a very small percentage work against someone who is twice your weight, insanely stronger and also very athletic and fast at the same time.
That's why small guys with the ambition of winning the openweight class like Marcelo Garcia or Lechlan Giles have developed a gameplan that involve only techniques that can work even with the highest physical disadvantage possible, casting aside things such as triangles, kimura, americanas etc....
I know Marcelo and Lechlan are insanely talented athletes in their own right, but the same applies to regular small guys who train BJJ/MMA for self defense or for winning local openweight tournaments etc....

Technique is important but the strategy and mindset in which you organize such technique is even more important.
Most fighters, even very experienced and succesful ones, don't develop a strategy as efficient as possible for dealing with guys that outclass them in every physical attribute, since they don't feel the need to (eg. because they are already quite strong and athletic, or because they care mainly about winning sport matches against people in their weight classes, therefore not including in their gameplan techniques effective against guys of similar size just because they would not work against an hulking monster would be actually detrimental to their success).

Quote:
You look at someone like Rampage Jackson slamming 200lb Ricardo Arona from a triangle attempt. Now imagine what he'd do to a puny 130lb person that tried to triangle him from their guard
Well, triangles and armbar from guard are a very bad idea against bigger and stronger guys, especially if they are also explosive.
If you attempt it, it mean your strategy is seriously flawed, which like said is even more important then technique.

That's why I avoided them altogether, I learned it the hard way after being easily picked up (and once even slammed) by guys who were just 20-30 lbs heavier than me and athletic every time I went for an armbar attempt.

In my experience the skillset that allow you to overcame the greatest strengh, size, speed and athleticism (I mean all four at the same time) gap possible is having a good leg lock game from open guard.

That's not just because you can't power out from heel hooks even with a truly ginormous size and strenght advantage (the same is true for rear naked chokes, but if we add speed, athleticism and fast reflexes to size and strenght good luck taking their back or apply the choke in the first place).

It's also because:
-You can apply them from laying on your back with your opponent still standing, they don't require to neither take down the opponent nor to establish an advantageous position.

-They are completely alien and unfamiliar to an untrained guy, who would not recognize the danger and think he is still winning (after all, you are down and they are standing...) until it's too late, especially considering how incredibly quick and sudded single leg x guard's sweeps are.

-Even if you are slow and they are fast, it' still quite easy to just wrap your legs around the leg of someone standing above you before they can move away.
It's not too hard to enter in the position even against a fast, explosive and smart guy.

-Since you are connected around their leg and hips, it's mechanically impossible to lift you up and slam, unlike guard submission such as triangles and armlocks.

I'm 5'6, 120 lbs, skinny, weak, very unathletic/uncoordinated and with just a little bit of BJJ technique and knowldege.

The guy I faced with the greatest physical advantage was a 6'3 265 lbs local rugby player (and yes, I asked him exactly how much he weighted before sparring XD) in a series of friendly grappling challenges.
He didn't go to the gym, and he was a bit overweight but still well built and not a slow fatass, he was still much faster, explosive and coordinated and than me on top of the immense size and strenght advantage.
He however had no grappling technique whatsoever.

On the feet he just bullrushed me, grabbed me and threw me around like nothing.
When he was on top the pressure was unreal and when he let me start in mount he just throw me off in the blink of an eye.

The only way I was able to reliably beat him was by entering single leg x guard, then I was able to make him fall easily by reaping his knee or pushing or the near hip while hooking the far leg, leading directly into an heel hook or toe hold finish.

This obviously don't mean that single leg x guard, leg entanglements and leg locks are going to allow you to overcame every physical gap, absolutely not, there are still limits.
I mean they are the skillset with the higher ceiling/potential in that regard, way above everything else.

It's a shame that people often overlook them, sadly most BJJ gyms don't even teach leg locks in the first place because they are considered too dangerous.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 07-Dec-20 at 06:06.
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  #374  
Old 07-Dec-20, 00:15
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I completely agree with everything you said here.



I also follow Ramsey Dewsey and I have watched his video, but he was wrong on the match he was talking about tough.
He believed that Zack and Kody were legit evenly matched, while in reality Kody (who is Zack's friend and trainer) was going easy and letting him work to help him practice, but he could have submitted him rather easily if he wanted.
I tought he was pretty clear (eg. he clearly let him out from back mount, he didn't take many opportunities etc....).

It's not my assumption by the way, Zack himsels admitted it when talking about his match on Reddit:
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Ramsey's general points are correct, but I still think he underestimate a bit how much technique, knowledge and experience can overcame an overall physical inferiority.


Ramsey is a robust and athletic guy, and I think that's exactly the reason he underestimates knowledge and experience's potential in dealing with an enormous physical'gap despite being an experienced fighter and a smart guy.
I have noticed is pretty common among trained grappler of above average size and strenght.

That's because facing someone that massively outclass them both physically and athletically it's extremely rare for them, the exception to the rule, therefore they don't get used it and don't develop a game/strategy and mindset based around overcaming that.

The vast majority of grappling techniques work against much bigger and stronger guys, but only a very small perventage work against somone who is twice your weight, insanely stronger and also very athletic and fast at the same time.
That's why small guys with the ambition of winning the openweight class like Marcelo Garcia or Lechlan Giles have developed a gameplan that involve only techniques that can work even with the hightest physical disadvantage possible, casting aside things such as triangles, kimura, americanas etc....
I know Marcelo and Lechlan are insanely talented athletes in their own right, but the same applies to regular small guys who train BJJ/MMA for self defense or for winning local openweight tournaments etc....

Technique is important but the strategy and mindset in which you organize such technique is even more important.
Most fighters, even very experienced and succesful ones, don't develop a strategy as efficient as possible for dealing with guys that outclass them in every phsyical attribute, since they don't feel the need to (eg. because they are already quite strong and athletic, or because they care mainly about winning sport matches against people in their weight classes, therefore not including in their gameplan techniques effective against guys of similar size just because they would not work against an hulking monster would be actually detrimental to their success).


Well, triangles and armbar from guard are a very bad idea against bigger and stronger guys, especially if they are also explosive.
If you attempt it, it mean your strategy is seriously flawed, which like said is even more important then technique.

That's why I avoided them altogether, I learned it the hard way after being easily picked up (and once even slammed) by guys who were just 20-30 lbs heavier than me and athletic every time I went for an armbar attempt.

In my experience the skillset that allow you to overcame the greatest strengh, size, speed and athleticism (I mean all four at the same time) gap possible is having a good leg lock game from open guard.

That's not just because you can't power out from heel hooks even with a truly ginormous size and strenght advantage (the same is true for rear naked chokes, but if we add speed, athelticism and fast reflexes to size and strenght good luck taking their back or apply the choke in the first place).

It's also because:
-You can apply them from laying on your back with your opponent still standing, they don't require to neither take down opponent nor to establish a ad advantageous position.

-They are completely alien and unfamiliar to an untrained guy, who would not recognize the danger and think he is still winning (after all, you are down and they standing...) until it's too late, especially considering how incredibly quick and sudded single leg x guard's sweeps are.

-Even if you are slow and they are fast, it' still quite easy to just wrap your legs around the leg of someone standing above you before they can move away.
It's not too hard to enter in the position even against a fast, explosive and smart guy.

-Since you are connected around their leg and hips, it's mechanically impossible to lift you up and slam, unlike guard submission such as triangles and armlocks.

I'm 5'6, 120 lbs, skinny, weak, very unathletic/uncoordinated and with just a little bit of BJJ technique and knowldege.

The guy I faced with the greatest physical advantage was a 6'3 265 lbs local rugby player (and yes, I asked him exactly how much he weighted before sparring XD) in a series of friendly grappling challenges.
He didn't go to the gym, and he was a bit overweight but still well built and not a slow fatass, he was still much faster, explosive and coordinated and than me on top of the immense size and strenght advantage.
He however had no grappling technique whatsoever.

On the feet he just bullrushed me, grabbed me and threw me around like nothing.
When he was on top the pressure was unreal and when he let me start in mount he just throw me off in the blink of an eye.

The only way I was able to reliably beat him was by entering single leg x guard, then I was able to make him fall easily by reaping his knee or pushing or the near hip while hooking the far leg, leading directly into an heel hook or toe hold finish.

This obviously don't mean that single leg x guard, leg entanglements and leg locks are going to allow you to overcame every physical gap, absolutely not, there are still limits.
I mean they are the skillset with the higher ceiling/potential in that regard, way above everything else.

It's a shame that people often overlook them, sadly most BJJ gyms don't even teach leg locks in the first place because they are considered too dangerous.

Triangle chokes can't be countered by slams if you underhook the leg, which is standard procedure but something Ricardo did not do against Rampage.

Other than that I completely agree.
A smaller person will have a hard time getting an americana or arm triangle choke on a bigger stronger opponent.
The rules seems that the more of your body against a small part of his body the more effective the move.
So arm triangle is two arms vs one arm and a neck.
While Rear naked choke is two arms vs one neck.

Marcelo Garcia is a fun example as he beat big dudes mostly with rnc, guilotine and armbar.
He also used a butterfly guard that allowed him to redirect their momentum instead of playing tug of war with their arm.
For smaller and weaker people butterfly guard seems to work better than a trap guard and chasing the back seems better than trying to go for subs from bottom position where the larger opponent can hulk out.

It seems as a small person or person in general it is best to limit yourself to moves that rely less on size and power so you can perform better against larger opponents and when you are exhausted it still works against similar sized opponents.

I think not allowing leglocks is a smart move as they are dangerous (especially heel hooks) and both people have to be highly aware when to tap and how not to escape.
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  #375  
Old 07-Dec-20, 02:44
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by Wrestler11 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Triangle chokes can't be countered by slams if you underhook the leg, which is standard procedure but something Ricardo did not do against Rampage.
I know that, but problem is that if the opponent is not only much bigger and stronger but also quick and explosive he is often going to lift you up so quickly you don't have time to underhook the leg.
I speak for experience.

Moreover if they are very strong and you are very light, they can still lift you up a bit, not high enough for an effective slam, but still high enough to spike you on your head, which is still dangerous even if you are only a few inches off the ground.

Arona could have easily used the underhook to stop the lift against Rampage, and he didn't for the reason I have described before.
He is an heavyweight, therefore he is not used facing someone so strong that he can pick him up like a child that way and he is not used practicing how to stop it.
But a skinny 130 lbs guy could have not done it.

A similar example is Nogueira being lifted and piledrived by Bob Sapp after a failed takedown, despite very simple and effective ways to prevent that move existing.
The reason is Noguiera was careless and got caught by surprise because he probably had never faced anyone so ridicolously strong to pick him up that way before.
After the first piledriver, Bob Sapp tried to lift him up the same way several more times, but Noguiera had learned his lesson and easily stopped all the following attempts by either grabbing around the leg or sitting out.

On the other hand I had several 180 + lbs friends that could easily lift me up that way when I tried to double leg them (they didn't piledrive me of course since we were just sparring, but they could have if they wanted) since I was estremely skinny and light, therefore I immediately had the need to learn how to stop it and to be always ready for it.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 07-Dec-20 at 03:01.
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  #376  
Old 07-Dec-20, 03:12
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I know that, but problem is that if the opponent is not only much bigger and stronger but also quick and explosive he is often going to lift you up so quickly you don't have time to underhook the leg.
I speak for experience.

Moreover if they are very strong and you are very light, they can still lift you up a bit, not high enough for an effective slam, but still high enough to spike you on your head, which is still dangerous even if you are only a few inches off the ground.

Arona could have easily used the underhook to stop the lift against Rampage, and he didn't for the reason I have described before.
He is an heavyweight, therefore he is not used facing someone so strong that he can pick him up like a child that way and he is not used practicing how to stop it.
But a skinny 130 lbs guy could have not done it.

A similar example is Nogueira being lifted and piledrived by Bob Sapp after a failed takedown, despite very simple and effective ways to prevent that move existing.
The reason is Noguiera was careless and got caught by surprise because he probably had never faced anyone so ridicolously strong to pick him up that way before.
After the first piledriver, Bob Sapp tried to lift him up the same way several more times, but Noguiera had learned his lesson and easily stopped all the following attempts by either grabbing around the leg or sitting out.

On the other hand I had several 180 + lbs friends that could easily lift me up that way when I tried to double leg them (they didn't piledrive me of course since we were just sparring, but they could have if they wanted) since I was estremely skinny and light, therefore I immediately had the need to learn how to stop it and to be always ready for it.
If you underhook he can't slam you and if he only raises you a little bit off the floor he can spike you on your shoulder but not on your head.

Arano kept holding on to the triangle choke while getting lifted up, if he had let go he would not have been slammed that hard.
So:
-underhook when triangle
-let go if he lifts you before you can get the underhook

Not saying technique is magical and at some point it just does not work anymore if the other dude is a giant going full force.
However a lot of hulking out can be stopped with technique.
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Old 07-Dec-20, 03:50
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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If you underhook he can't slam you and if he only raises you a little bit off the floor he can spike you on your shoulder but not on your head.

Arano kept holding on to the triangle choke while getting lifted up, if he had let go he would not have been slammed that hard.
So:
-underhook when triangle
-let go if he lifts you before you can get the underhook

Not saying technique is magical and at some point it just does not work anymore if the other dude is a giant going full force.
However a lot of hulking out can be stopped with technique.
Yes, I agree, my point was just that it's not a reliable technique when there is an enourmos strenght and athleticism gap, and there are much better options from your back.

You can't always underhook in time, and if you let go, well, you end up with no triangle and little control of the situation.
Letting aside that if you have short and inflexible legs like mine and you are facing a jacked guy with huge broad shoulders you can't even lock it up in the first place, or even if you can it's going to be a nightmare.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 07-Dec-20 at 03:56.
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  #378  
Old 07-Dec-20, 09:12
JackWrestleboy7i JackWrestleboy7i is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Well i don't have any grappling ability. I'm about 6"1 or 6"2 and at my lowest I was 152lbs, but I had intentionally cut down to that weight to get a defined six pack. I could still bench press 75kg at that weight.

I wrestled a female friend of mine at that weight and she was a competitive volleyball background and also soccer ar 5"11 140lbs.

I didn't struggle at all in beating her. She didn't have any training either though, but it wasn't difficult to win even tho she tried.

Also im indian but I don't think that matters as I grew up in the west. She was white.

Last edited by JackWrestleboy7i; 07-Dec-20 at 09:18.
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Old 08-Dec-20, 00:54
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I also follow Ramsey Dewsey and I have watched his video, but he was wrong on the match he was talking about tough.
He believed that Zack and Kody were legit evenly matched
I don't think he says at any point they appeared "evenly matched" but rather it illustrated his point that "size and strength matter". The decorated, national/world class black belt was having to work much harder than you'd normally expect against a white belt who only walked into his first class a few weeks ago.

If Steele wasn't a strong and prize-winning professional athlete in his own right, the task of out-scrambling and resisting Telander would have probably been insurmountable. Telander said himself on Dewey’s podcast that he can “submit people with 10 years experience because I’m much stronger than them.”

Quote:
Ramsey's general points are correct, but I still think he underestimate a bit how much technique, knowledge and experience can overcame an overall physical inferiority.
He’s on the mat pretty much every day. Has been in the game for a couple of decades. Has had pro fights, trained with many fighters, many coaches, studied multiples styles. Honestly i think it’s just real talk — BJJ and training Martial Arts in general are a great tool for improving your odds, but they are by no means magical and certain to work against any opponent. In his experience he’s not so small that he hasn't been in situations where little guys are just too small and weak to make techniques work against him and not so big that he hasn’t experienced getting squashed and man-handled by huge behemoths. So he’s experienced both and just telling it like it is.

When I talk about athleticism of the individual being so important, there is a very clear example of this; age.

That's why you don't see 60-somethings on the mat at high level competitions, drawing on their decades and decades worth of knowledge and experience, having honed their techniques to perfection. This is because there is a point of diminished return and it’s also very important to accept the fact of life that some people have very low ceilings of potential from the beginning due to lack of athleticism, physical attributes, etc.

Quote:
-Even if you are slow and they are fast, it' still quite easy to just wrap your legs around the leg of someone standing above you before they can move away.
It's not too hard to enter in the position even against a fast, explosive and smart guy.
As garcon55 used to say, put away these silly fantasies.

Seriously, there is no magic technique, no sure thing.

What if a big strong athlete like Shelbi Vaughan (6'2, 280lbs) just did a jumping butt-drop onto you as you lay on your back. You think you could absorb that force? Or just get squashed under that Olympian BBW power?



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Old 08-Dec-20, 02:33
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I don't think he says at any point they appeared "evenly matched" but rather it illustrated his point that "size and strength matter". The decorated, national/world class black belt was having to work much harder than you'd normally expect against a white belt who only walked into his first class a few weeks ago.
Camon, he was clearly talking like Kody could not submit him.
He even pointed that "Well Kody did not submit him, but he still held his own pretty well and don't get squashed thanks to superior technique" when talking about how technique is important too, the message he was conveying was of a roughly equal bout.
He also said how impressive it was for Zack to escape Kody'back mount with strenght and explosiveness, except Kody let him out from that.

He clearly did not realize Kody was deliberately letting Zack work and holding back for practice purpose, if he did he would have mentioned it clearly.
He even flat out said in the comments that Kody was not letting him work and trying his hardest, just to be later proved wrong.
He was wrong on that one, it can happen, nobody is infallible.

Quote:
If Steele wasn't a strong and prize-winning professional athlete in his own right, the task of out-scrambling and resisting Telander would have probably been insurmountable. Telander said himself on Dewey’s podcast that he can “submit people with 10 years experience because I’m much stronger than them.”
I agree with that.
My point is that since Kody is a strong and amazing athlete in his own right and has also incredible technique, he could have tapped Zack rather easily, and he didn't just because he did not wanted.

On the other hand, you can transfer all of Kody's technique in a small, weak, out of shape and uncoordinated body and Zack would crush it without breaking a sweat, I'm not denying it.

Quote:
He’s on the mat pretty much every day. Has been in the game for a couple of decades. Has had pro fights, trained with many fighters, many coaches, studied multiples styles. Honestly i think it’s just real talk — BJJ and training Martial Arts in general are a great tool for improving your odds, but they are by no means magical and certain to work against any opponent. In his experience he’s not so small that he hasn't been in situations where little guys are just too small and weak to make techniques work against him and not so big that he hasn’t experienced getting squashed and man-handled by huge behemoths. So he’s experienced both and just telling it like it is.
Yes, but someone his size, strenght and athleticism is still rarely going to develop a mindset and build a strategy and gameplan similar to a very small guy.
He is never going to face the same adversities of a legit small guy, and no, being squashed by an huge behemot once in a while is usually not enough. He is going to perceive them as unfortunate exceptions rather than the norm and be quick to revert to a style that relies on not being at a big physical disadvantage in his other rolls.
You need to have a "training life" where 80% of people are huge behemot for you, and 99% are stronger.

By the way I have said that in my opinion he underestimate technique max potential just a little bit, not by much, and that's his the reason he was a bit off in the analysis of Kody vs Zack.

I completely agree on all of his general points, eg "technique is not magic but just the most efficient use possible of the physical attributes you have" "size, strenght and athleticism matter a ton" "there are limits to what skills and technique can overcame" "strenght training is important" etc....

I just think that he underestimate a bit the upper limits of technique in overcaming a physical disadvantage.


Quote:
When I talk about athleticism of the individual being so important, there is a very clear example of this; age.

That's why you don't see 60-somethings on the mat at high level competitions, drawing on their decades and decades worth of knowledge and experience, having honed their techniques to perfection. This is because there is a point of diminished return and it’s also very important to accept the fact of life that some people have very low ceilings of potential from the beginning due to lack of athleticism, physical attributes, etc.
I completely agree, I have never said that athleticism is not very important, I pointed it out the opposite several times.

Quote:
As garcon55 used to say, put away these silly fantasies.

Seriously, there is no magic technique, no sure thing.
I know that, I'm not saying they are magic or infallible or that they can work with any physical gap, just that they are skillset with the higher ceiling in beating physically superior people (but there is still a ceiling).
I actually pointed it out at the end of my previous post exactly to avoid misunderstanding but it was no use, I think I really need to improve my english.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This obviously don't mean that single leg x guard, leg entanglements and leg locks are going to allow you to overcame every physical gap, absolutely not, there are still limits.
I mean they are the skillset with the higher ceiling/potential in that regard, way above everything else.
Quote:
What if a big strong athlete like Shelbi Vaughan (6'2, 280lbs) just did a jumping butt-drop onto you as you lay on your back. You think you could absorb that force? Or just get squashed under that Olympian BBW power?
You have to admit that's a pretty uncommon and unlikely move, I am not sure what would happen but I would like to figure it out. XD

By the way, to be clear, I'm aware there are a lot of women that could beat me by physicality alone despite having no technique.
The problem is that they are extremely rare for obvious reason, and I never had the pleausure to know, let alone wrestle, one in real life.

My ultimate fantasy is being overpowered with raw strenght by a girl like Sarah Backman, beautiful and stunning feminine face, very muscular and strong as fuck but still not too bulky.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 08-Dec-20 at 20:16.
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