Are there any long term negative effects to being Choked Out/KO'd in Sessions?

[HeadScissorFan]

over the years, i've seen videos where a guy gets choked out several times in a 10-20 minute video with no breaks , to seeing videos where a woman holds onto the choke after a guy is out for 10+ seconds. On Safa Wardas website, there is a video of a woman called "REAL SESSION VICTIMS OHD (SVETLANNAH)" where Svetlannah gets the guy in a RNC and holds onto the choke for a long time after he is out(silly person using the camera didn't tell her he was out) . While she eventually lets go and he regains consciousness, it makes me wonder if any permanent damage happened.

One of the jobbers from Reality Girls(thin man) seems to also get choked out on a regular basis over the years. And I know Mark from Brutal Beauties has gotten choked out by many different women.

along with people talking about their experiences from being choked out in sessions. one thing i've been curious about is if there are any long term negative or cumulative effects to being put to sleep in sessions? Or even risks that people should possibly take into account?

[Anji]

I belong to several BJJ/ Martial arts/ Grappling forums and FB groups and the subject comes up often, just today I read a post by a teacher at an academy where they have to dismiss a student because of his aggressive grappling led to him squeezing too hard and holding too long on a guillotine led to another student having a stroke, also I have hear several students over the years to have had seizures and strokes, recently a black belt passed away from what many believe was a stroke after been choke out too many times. There are studies that show plaque can come lose from an artery (specially in someone with blocked arteries/blood pressure issues and can cause a stroke. I am surprise people will let someone without any real training choking them until they pass out. (holding for too long can lead to dead brain cells from lack of oxygen in the brain). It is a complex subject, still in a new phase but something to keep in mind when grappling and not to be taken lightly. Here is an article/studie on he subject for those interested in reading more about it:
How Dangerous Is Being Choked Out? Plus The Difference Between Strangle and Chokehold:
One scientific study compared the effects of knock out in boxing to those of choking from judo – they established the 3 main dangers of choking:

1.when a choke hold is performed on someone with a cardiac disorder or hypertension.
2.choking between kids whose central nervous system and heart haven’t completely developed yet.
3.continuing to hold after the opponent loses consciousness

This study shows the relevance of the neurophysiological assessment of athletes engaged in violent sports which can cause brain impairment. In fact, while professional boxers may show brain functional impairment in comparison to normal subjects, judoka do not. The lack of correlation between CBF values in boxers and the number of official matches points to the difficulty of taking into account variables, such as the number and the severity of matches during training.
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[mermao]

Thanks so much, Anji. We can always count on you for information and intelligent discussion.

[Markwebb]

Brilliant feedback!

From my understanding its like most things in llfe - its not 'good' but a little wont harm you! If you abuse it as thin man and mark do then sooner of later you would imagine an issue will arise. I hope not for those guys sake as they go all out.

Guess its like taking ecstacy. People do it every weekend for years without a problem (although you can normally tell ...) but someone can do it for a first time and have a bad episode. There is ALWAYS a risk, might be slight but its there

I love getting ko'd but worry about it so tend to not do it these days

[boyofwinter]

Like others have mentioned there's a wide disparity here physiologically. If you're ever knocked out and you realize you have physical or mental abnormalities, I strongly recommend not thinking it was just a 1-off etc. Don't think that you will get used to it as it's very unlikely this is the case. You only get 1 brain etc.
I've never, myself, had any effects from knockouts. I'll rarely risk it happening with someone who I know isn't well trained and rarer still allow the possibility of it happening twice in the same hour. I've probably been knocked out slightly over 100 times in more than 20 years of sessions. Only once as far as I know did a wrestler keep the pressure she was using for quite a long time (8-10 seconds) after knowing I was unconscious, and I had explicitly asked her to do it, a bit of experimentation on my part. It did feel different and it still didn't effect me after the session, but I wasn't at all tempted to ask others to KO me in a similar way after that 1 time.

[martin17]

when I am choked, I start with coughing, probably resulting from collapsing the airway . usually the girl then stops. One time a girl reallly choked me serious, I tapped, but she goes on, I was out for a second or two? I was very afraid for a longer choke..

[Markwebb]

Originally Posted by boyofwinter [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Like others have mentioned there's a wide disparity here physiologically. If you're ever knocked out and you realize you have physical or mental abnormalities, I strongly recommend not thinking it was just a 1-off etc. Don't think that you will get used to it as it's very unlikely this is the case. You only get 1 brain etc.
I've never, myself, had any effects from knockouts. I'll rarely risk it happening with someone who I know isn't well trained and rarer still allow the possibility of it happening twice in the same hour. I've probably been knocked out slightly over 100 times in more than 20 years of sessions. Only once as far as I know did a wrestler keep the pressure she was using for quite a long time (8-10 seconds) after knowing I was unconscious, and I had explicitly asked her to do it, a bit of experimentation on my part. It did feel different and it still didn't effect me after the session, but I wasn't at all tempted to ask others to KO me in a similar way after that 1 time.

Hi
Just out of interest - after being ko'd do you feel physically tired? Just a noticeable side effect for me - nothing that worries me but i notice it

[HeadScissorFan]

I can only speak from my personal experience, but if it's a big knockout where i convulse and snore, the symptoms I can get are being physically tired, headaches(!),numb hands and feet, less alertness, and obvious confusion. These symptoms so far have only lasted in the session and not for days or weeks after it.

Those knockouts you see on video where the guy starts shaking and convulsing are enough to put me out of commission. I can't take a lot of those types. some choke outs can produce a high feeling for me and a great rush , and others are more violent for me.

speaking of, I once saw 3 big videos that dealt with Mark from BB. One of them is an old video with Megan Jones where she keeps on knocking him out(more than 9X I believe) in a 15 minute video. no cuts. Another where Cheyenne Jewel went to town on him and kept knocking him out multiple times consecutively. and another where Chichi Media gets him in a reverse and KO's him and holds onto the choke after he is out(neither her nor the camera person were aware he was out). No way he had a good experience with those consecutive knockouts LOL

[boyofwinter]

Originally Posted by Markwebb [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Hi
Just out of interest - after being ko'd do you feel physically tired? Just a noticeable side effect for me - nothing that worries me but i notice it

Doesn't last for more than a few seconds, after I've stood up and walked around a bit.

[KillerCrushes]

Originally Posted by HeadScissorFan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

one thing i've been curious about is if there are any long term negative or cumulative effects to being put to sleep in sessions? Or even risks that people should possibly take into account?

There are risks inherent to every activity, but safe "breath play" is possible between consenting, healthy adults who take precautions when engaging in this activity.

I'm not saying that a person who gets choked out 20 times a day, 5 days a week for 15 years will have no adverse effects. It seems likely. By the same token, a distance runner may well be able to run 100 miles in a day, but he's not going to be able to do it 5 days every week for the next 15 years.

If you're doing 2 quick chokeouts per session once a month, you're probably going to be fine. We're all different, but a blood choke on me feels a LOT safer than being cracked on the jaw while in a standing position.