Has women's MMA peaked?

[mermao]

Seems like UFC cards are featuring fewer women these days. Is this due to the dominance of Nunes and Shevchenko or is this happening in other MMA franchises as well? And if this is something across the board, is it just a flight of women from MMA or from combat sports in general?

[jiminy]

The sands of time show peaks and troughs. Right now, we're in a trough.

I've been saying this for many years, since WME acquired the UFC in 2016, they've sought to run the organisation on the cheap, but at the same time, legitimise it as a clean cut, presentable sport that's marketable to mainstream audiences. It's a very tough balance.

I think with this recent SLAP fighting venture and whatever they plan to do with this Hasbulla guy I keep seeing on social media, Dana White is keen to take a step back towards freakshow method of marketing.

But still there are lots of issues with the UFC's marketing and popularity. Not just womens, but men's too. With Diaz now gone, McGregor, Jones, Masvidal, etc, largely inactive and likely coming to the end of their careers anyway... Who is the next biggest draw? Adesanya? Chimaev???

Back in the days of Liddell, Couture, Ortiz, Shamrock, Penn, Franklin, Matt Hughes etc, the UFC was mainly marketed towards the white, middle class, metal listening, affliction/tap-out wearing 16-35 demographic. Those people bought PPVs and merchandise. That can no longer be the case.

You see how hard they still try to push a guy like Paddy Pimblett. But he'll run into exactly the same problem as PVZ, Northcutt, Ostovich, etc. There's no such thing as easy fights in the UFC. It has become too legit for its own good. Most of these "good fighters" only serve to impede marketable fighters.

Look at womens 145. If they stripped Nunes, made Holm vs Tate rematch for the title, Danyelle Wolf fights the winner. That's a marketable division. Ideally with Holly as champ as she's got all the things America loves - a catchy name, blonde hair, and good looks, nice smile/teeth. lol. You could also look at bringing in some whipping girls like Arlene Blencow and Genah Fabian. But the UFC doesn't want to make the investment in that division. Ergo running on the cheap.

[KillerCrushes]

The slap thing sounds fucking awful (beyond stupid), but I understand I may be in the minority here.

As for the other, there are a shitload of girls in wrestling, judo, and jiu-jitsu right now who are loving their popularity on social media. I cannot speak to boxing being near the same level of participation, but I do see a bunch of muay-thai social media accounts also. The combination of growth in those sports does not mean women's MMA is going to be big in 10-20 years from now, but it does suggest there is a growing pool of potential MMA fighters to come from.

[mermao]

I am encouraged to see some younger girls on the roster. Holly is over 40 now. And I agree that slap fighting is beyond stupid - and boring to boot.

[Ryan Futuristics]

Hate to say it, but MMA's gone the same route as baseball – which is that the entertainment factor's gone down, as they've cracked down on PED use .. Pride and Smackgirl (20 years ago now?) were so entertaining because you had people with superhuman strength and endurance fighting with radically different styles.

The other thing that killed it was probably McGregor (maybe Rousey) .. UFC underpays its talent, but turns the clowns and seat fillers into superstars – and there's only so far you can go with that .. Fighters wanted to get in and out and become millionaires, and started managing their careers much more around marketable fights .. It burns itself out, like pop music.

These days, I don't have any enthusiasm .. There aren't many interesting male or female fighters coming up .. Kayla Harrison moving to UFC would be interesting, despite her recent split decision loss .. I think now would be a great time for Japan/Korea/China to create a free-for-all promotion, more like Pride, more international .. UFC hardly puts on any female fights (never has), so the divisions all feel slow-moving and bare .. They need to get higher weight divisions too – why there's hardly anything above 135lbs.

[bizyz]

Kayla's last opponent looked and sounded like she was mega dosed on PEDs .

[jiminy]

Originally Posted by Ryan Futuristics [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Hate to say it, but MMA's gone the same route as baseball – which is that the entertainment factor's gone down, as they've cracked down on PED use .. Pride and Smackgirl (20 years ago now?) were so entertaining because you had people with superhuman strength and endurance fighting with radically different styles.

Things can always turn around. I think Boxing has enjoyed something of a revival in recent years. The great fights and rivalry between Fury and Wilder.

One thing the interest in the Paul brothers Boxing, Stefi Cohen Boxing, the Hall vs. Thor match... It's that you need a story. The sport thrives on engaging personalities. Sheilds/Marshall was one of the biggest and best fights of the year. Boxing is trendy again.

The other thing that killed it was probably McGregor (maybe Rousey) .. UFC underpays its talent, but turns the clowns and seat fillers into superstars

This doesn't work unless the public buy into it though. People are skeptical and more apathetical towards the likes of Covington - who tries hard and has been promoted but when it comes down to it, the guy is just a ball sniffer with no highlight reel. Fans aren't going to buy that. McGregor on the hand always delivered entertaining fights. McGregor fights in the way fans like to see an MMA match contested. Rousey was the definition of an apocalyptic fighter - all her fights were finishes. Many in the first round. First minute even.

On top of that, people like Tate, Rousey and Holm are all presentable to mainstream audiences.They're not grizzled, tatted up bulldykes that are unrelatable to your average girl. Undesirable to the average man.

Rousey vs Tate was your classic nerdy, tomboy, girl-jock that's still attractive vs the popular, gossip queen, cheerleader type. The drama just gets turned up to 11.

These are the key elements;

1. Identity. Like I said, the white middle class 16-35 demographic from the early/mid 2000s could easily identify with people like Liddell, Couture, Hughes, Franklin, etc. It's much harder to identify with people like Kamaru Usman, or Dagastani Wrestlers. Mountain men from the east or Chinese. The UFC is already very international.

That's not necessarily good thing. Formula 1 taking the money from Saudis, Chinese, Indians, etc, moved the sport away from it's European heartland. The greedy bosses also put the sport behind a pay wall. The sport is now nothing like it once was in terms of popularity.

2. Storylines. Fans have followed a fighter. Built up trust that they can win big fights and be worth investing their emotions into. They know their backstory and can identify with it.

3. Trashtalk, engaging personalities and rivalries. There is more riding on a fight when there is bad blood and trash talk. Someone is going to have to eat their words. Emotional investment is turned up.

4. The final product. An entertaining fight that can engage neutrals and fanboys alike. A lot of people like to tune in when Gaethje is fighting because you know you'll get an entertaining fight. But that is only a piece of the puzzle.

Ultimately there are probably now more fighters than not in the UFC who are not identifiable, not engaging and do not put on entertaining fights.

[Ryan Futuristics]

Originally Posted by bizyz [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Kayla's last opponent looked and sounded like she was mega dosed on PEDs .

She looked and sounded 100% like a guy .. Like a favela bro .. Apparently just put on a tonne of muscle too.

Kayle actually went up in my estimation .. She was struggling, but never stopped giving 100% – she definitely fought like a champion .. She's got something Nunes probably doesn't have, and Rousey definitely didn't have .. Really need to get her in UFC, and get a 145 division.

Added after 13 minutes:

Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Things can always turn around. I think Boxing has enjoyed something of a revival in recent years. The great fights and rivalry between Fury and Wilder.

One thing the interest in the Paul brothers Boxing, Stefi Cohen Boxing, the Hall vs. Thor match... It's that you need a story. The sport thrives on engaging personalities. Sheilds/Marshall was one of the biggest and best fights of the year. Boxing is trendy again.



This doesn't work unless the public buy into it though. People are skeptical and more apathetical towards the likes of Covington - who tries hard and has been promoted but when it comes down to it, the guy is just a ball sniffer with no highlight reel. Fans aren't going to buy that. McGregor on the hand always delivered entertaining fights. McGregor fights in the way fans like to see an MMA match contested. Rousey was the definition of an apocalyptic fighter - all her fights were finishes. Many in the first round. First minute even.

On top of that, people like Tate, Rousey and Holm are all presentable to mainstream audiences.They're not grizzled, tatted up bulldykes that are unrelatable to your average girl. Undesirable to the average man.

Rousey vs Tate was your classic nerdy, tomboy, girl-jock that's still attractive vs the popular, gossip queen, cheerleader type. The drama just gets turned up to 11.

These are the key elements;

1. Identity. Like I said, the white middle class 16-35 demographic from the early/mid 2000s could easily identify with people like Liddell, Couture, Hughes, Franklin, etc. It's much harder to identify with people like Kamaru Usman, or Dagastani Wrestlers. Mountain men from the east or Chinese. The UFC is already very international.

That's not necessarily good thing. Formula 1 taking the money from Saudis, Chinese, Indians, etc, moved the sport away from it's European heartland. The greedy bosses also put the sport behind a pay wall. The sport is now nothing like it once was in terms of popularity.

2. Storylines. Fans have followed a fighter. Built up trust that they can win big fights and be worth investing their emotions into. They know their backstory and can identify with it.

3. Trashtalk, engaging personalities and rivalries. There is more riding on a fight when there is bad blood and trash talk. Someone is going to have to eat their words. Emotional investment is turned up.

4. The final product. An entertaining fight that can engage neutrals and fanboys alike. A lot of people like to tune in when Gaethje is fighting because you know you'll get an entertaining fight. But that is only a piece of the puzzle.

Ultimately there are probably now more fighters than not in the UFC who are not identifiable, not engaging and do not put on entertaining fights.

I think boxing's got the same problem .. that 99% of the audience are only interested when it's Fury, Jake Paul, etc. so if the sport relies on seat-filler fighters, you only need one of them to retire or be out of action, and the sport loses half its audience.

The big mistake with UFC was when Dana structured everything around McGregor or Rousey .. If the top contenders aren't getting title shots, because you're saving them for McGregor vs x part 3, then the division stalls .. The top 6 contenders don't want to fight each other – they only want the money fight – and talent stops rising up .. And you need talent to find the next McGregor.

McGregor was a really interesting fighter early on, but he's only won one fight since 2016 now, and that wasn't against a contender – it was a retirement fight .. That's the problem with the division – if McGregor was a top 5, he should be regularly fighting number 6 and number 4, to stay sharp, and keep the division moving .. What happened with Rousey is anyone in the top 6 got a title shot, because they needed Rousey on big cards, and there was no development – a lot of those fighters should've been working their up to title fights more gradually .. And when Rousey came crashing down, you had a pretty empty, undeveloped division.

[jiminy]

Not gonna lie, there has been a complete dearth of good, compelling WMMA fights over the past few months. Some UFC cards have completely devoid of women's fights and even if they feature one, it's just a meaningless bout between a couple of "jobbers".

I'm hopeful that WMMA will "get going" again over the next few weeks.

Holly, Valentina, and Michelle Waterson all have fights booked. Tatiana Suarez is finally returning.

Looking forward to the new season of PFL. Larissa Pacheco is set to fight Julia Budd in April.

Keep an eye on Dakota Ditcheva in the 125 class. If she wins the PFL season, I see her getting signed by the UFC and given a top ranked opponent immediately.




Yeah, there are younger girls coming up.

Andrade vs. Blanchfield will be a great test for Erin Blanchfield.

Maycee Barber vs. Andrea Lee will be a fun scrap.

[stymie]

Just thinking about this earlier today, even googled about wmma's popularity but there's nothing but positive, "it's growing leaps and bounds" articles about it. To me, it's been SLOWLY falling out of interest to the general public. I wonder if the regular sports networks even talk about it anymore or as much as when Ronda and Conor were on top. Even that blogger, Frank Pozen that I referenced at times no longer does his podcasts discussing the wmma scene. It will probably take someone with a Ronda-size personality to juice things up, and that's with the added burden of it no longer being a novelty. Even Dana seems bored, considering he created his own freak show.