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  #31  
Old 28-May-23, 20:57
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Default Re: Quality of session wrestlers have gone way down?

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Originally Posted by uxiel [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Can you point to your statistical evidence?
Of course. I said boys sports participation is declining while girls is growing.

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Between 2011 and 2017, boys participation in US high school wrestling declined 6 years in a row and between 2011 and 2022 U.S. High School Wrestling lost a staggering 41,858 boys.

On the flip side, it gained over 24,000 girls.


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Back when these statistics came out, you didn't have to be Albert Einstein to see which way the wind was blowing... That Wrestling would likely continue to lose boys and gain girls... The latter being most influential for closing the gap in participation.

Early indications from 2023 suggests girls participation has exploded to over 50,000.

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Back in October last year, I made the prediction that it would take until the end of the 2020s for girls to have a 20-25% share in HS wrestling. But it appears that milestone only took 1 year.
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  #32  
Old 28-May-23, 21:20
uxiel uxiel is offline
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Default Re: Quality of session wrestlers have gone way down?

So here's a chart plotting male participation in high school sports: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Steady increase, except the last couple years, likely due to the pandemic. (Same decrease is observed in girls' sports.)

Same for girls: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

The number of girls in sports is certainly increasing. Many things may have contributed to this, like the popularity of crossfit, people becoming less religious and less commonly believing women need to live the lives they did in the 50s.

Sounds like wrestling is just less popular, not sports in general. WWE ratings have also been way down the past 1-2 decades ([Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]). This is a far cry from some misguided fear over gender identity or fear porn over masculinity crisis (that all boys are just playing video games or whatever).

Birth rates are also declining. Though that won't hit the high school stats for a few more years. This is due to increases in housing prices, more women entering and remaining in the workforce, and many people prefer to live a life that is now accepted by more folks of travel and pursuing their own hobbies than raising humans.

In any case, we don't have a direct wrestler background -> session girl pipeline. Very often, it's just bodybuilders who started doing fetish-style wrestling and eventually made a public listing on SG.
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  #33  
Old 28-May-23, 22:02
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Default Re: Quality of session wrestlers have gone way down?

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Originally Posted by uxiel [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

In any case, we don't have a direct wrestler background -> session girl pipeline. Very often, it's just bodybuilders who started doing fetish-style wrestling and eventually made a public listing on SG.
It's something I have said before, social media has changed that dynamic and added more avenues for bodybuilders from sponsored influencing to online coaching and Onlyfans. Mixed Wrestling and the "Schmoe" clientele are old hat.

But it's not only that. I don't believe there is such a great fascination over muscular women anymore and if there is, it's much less about fetishising them and guys having hang ups and insecurities over whether a woman is stronger than them, whether they would lose a wrestling match and being compelled to find out / experience losing.

Young men are now growing up much more accustomed to seeing females besting them in sports. There are more examples on Youtube of girls mopping the mats with boys than you can shake a stick at, much less remember. They're growing up seeing girls in gyms - crossfit, powerlifting, bodybuilding and fighting in the UFC. Boxing in the Olympics.

Back in my day, 20+ years ago, a glimpse of a woman like Cory Everson, Debi Purcell... It was all a bit special and rare. Women bucking trends and being muscular and learning how to fight. It spooked guys, fascinated guys in ways they no longer are.

IMO, the whole mixed wrestling scene as we've known it will continue to contract due to declining interest on both sides.

People that want to grapple will go to BJJ classes.
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  #34  
Old 29-May-23, 00:11
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: Quality of session wrestlers have gone way down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It's something I have said before, social media has changed that dynamic and added more avenues for bodybuilders from sponsored influencing to online coaching and Onlyfans. Mixed Wrestling and the "Schmoe" clientele are old hat.

But it's not only that. I don't believe there is such a great fascination over muscular women anymore and if there is, it's much less about fetishising them and guys having hang ups and insecurities over whether a woman is stronger than them, whether they would lose a wrestling match and being compelled to find out / experience losing.

Young men are now growing up much more accustomed to seeing females besting them in sports. There are more examples on Youtube of girls mopping the mats with boys than you can shake a stick at, much less remember. They're growing up seeing girls in gyms - crossfit, powerlifting, bodybuilding and fighting in the UFC. Boxing in the Olympics.

Back in my day, 20+ years ago, a glimpse of a woman like Cory Everson, Debi Purcell... It was all a bit special and rare. Women bucking trends and being muscular and learning how to fight. It spooked guys, fascinated guys in ways they no longer are.

IMO, the whole mixed wrestling scene as we've known it will continue to contract due to declining interest on both sides.

People that want to grapple will go to BJJ classes.
It's less of a taboo, for sure .. The whole strong women, being bested by a female, etc. thing was a source of shame and an edgy fetish .. These days, it's much more out in the open .. There are mainstream Tiktok memes about wanting a female to crush your head between her thighs, and muscle mommys, etc. It's become mainstream sexuality.

Strong women are also getting more attention than glamour models and certainly fashion models .. The reason so many girls are training like bodybuilders today is because it's the easiest way to get lots of online attention.

So the whole thing has become mainstream .. The less in the shadows it is, the less intense it is .. The more it's just a regular turn-on .. Lots of guys are fetishising tall women now too .. It makes sense that as our environments change, we want women who are more capable in these environments .. Taller, stronger, aggressive..
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  #35  
Old 29-May-23, 03:29
uxiel uxiel is offline
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Default Re: Quality of session wrestlers have gone way down?

Onlyfans makes it easier and less risky to make money online than in-person things, and probably becomes harder with saturation, inflation, and moving away from ZIRP. At the end of the day, it's still schmoes funding them, whether it's via OF or in a hotel room. Most dudes aren't into female muscles these days, even if they're less repulsed by it than they would have been 20 years ago. In case you didn't notice, YouTube has a lot more videos than it did 20 years ago. There are some muscular women who aren't primarily funded by people like us. Kristen Graham has an onlyfans where she just posts normal porn and in my estimation is scared to scare people off with muscle content, unless it's in DM. But most of the muscular women who are making money off of flexing or wrestling videos likely have the same customers who would otherwise be doing in-person sessions.

I would agree that "wrestling" is of less interest these days, and guys (at least in the US) are more into domination. Sheena has provided a data point on this, for example. Guys in Europe are more into competitive wrestling, and guys in the US just want more domination/fetish stuff. Like I linked to stats on in my previous post, WWE is also less popular these days, though that data only went up to 2017.

In my opinion, what kills the scene is travel inflation on the girls' side + inflation on other stuff on the guys' side reducing discretionary spending. We've already seen 4-5 day trips get reduced to 1-2 day trips. Flights are insanely expensive, hotels are way up. Even in Europe, trains and hotels are way more expensive than they were a few years ago. Add in some no-shows, and it's a whole bunch of risk for girls to try to do sessions. Nothing to do with masculinity crisis or gender identity woes. It's just harder to get everything lined up.

It's still a rarity to see a very muscular female. If you go into a top crossfit gym (I am not talking about one where games athletes train, just one that's legit and not run by a bunch of people who are completely clueless), for example, you'll see a few who are quite muscular, but still not as big as the bigger session girls. Then a handful who are pretty strong, maybe squat 225 lbs or so, but not that visibly muscular. And they're surrounded by a bunch of guys who are much more muscular. The video game guys you're obsessed with have never been to one of these gyms and have no clue that more girls are more muscular than before, nor would they care. The data shows that there are more males doing high school sports than before, just not wrestling specifically.
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