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View Poll Results: In your perfect domination video, should the victim enjoy the action or endure it?
Enjoy it 12 8.57%
Endure it 128 91.43%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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  #31  
Old 25-May-20, 21:14
xen2002 xen2002 is offline
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Default Re: How do you want the victim to behave in a wrestling domination video?

i dont want to see any acting and dislike story lines. Worst for me is a guy pretending it hurts more than it does.

Personally I only really enjoy beat down videos and if the guy is struggling/on the verge of having to quit its best (not many of those around anymore).

Ball busting videos are a good example. i wont watch any of the ones where its one of the actors used 5+ to 100s of times where I have the impression it doesent hurt them (main ones being the same guy in Brat Princess videos who also did a lot for other productions, the one in Ball Busting World who appears 100s of times and a few others). The ones I enjoy are where the guy has to genuinely quit early (Miami Mean girls have a few of those) even it its only 4 or 5 kicks.

Problem with wrestling is the guy has to be really weak to actually lose and being athletic and tall i can relate at all to that. So i would much rather see a guy handicapped (arms tied or something) and then the girl to push his limits so he ends up quitting in under 10 mins
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  #32  
Old 25-May-20, 21:40
sailorboy sailorboy is offline
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Default Re: How do you want the victim to behave in a wrestling domination video?

Put some effort into it! So tired of seeing guys pretending to try. Even when the guy is 1/2 the size and strength of the woman, they still don't try! Thinking of Harold and some of the other little guys on Grappling Girls. He flops around like a fish with noodle arms! Come on, get mad or something and at least try. Your not fooling anyone. It seems that when a larger women wrestles a smaller woman, they both show effort. For instance Ina Black wrestling some of the girls, her scissors are solid. When she wrestle guys, one or the other puts very little effort in and you can see she is not really squeezing all out like with the girls. THE ONLY GUY I HAVE SEEN PUT IN A GOOD EFFORT IS BOSCO FROM GRAPPLING GIRLS! Sure is is 1/3-1/4 the size of some of the women he wrestles but at least he try's! That's my pet peeve from almost every producer on almost every mixed wrestling video.
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  #33  
Old 17-Sep-20, 07:45
Zeus28 Zeus28 is offline
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Default Re: How do you want the victim to behave in a wrestling domination video?

I want the (fictional) character whom the actor is portraying to be enduring it, not enjoying it, though of course I wouldn't want a real life person to be enduring it against his will. The way I think of it, I want the domination to be one step, but not two or more steps, removed from reality.

To explain what I mean, if a real life person was experiencing the domination totally against his will - i.e. if the domination was zero steps removed from reality, then it would be a criminal assault, and only a psychopath would be okay with that. If, on the other hand, the actor is playing the part of a character who is being outwrestled and dominated by a stronger woman against his will, then no real life person is being harmed, so I can imagine myself in the role of the victim without feeling any guilt because I know that no real life person is being harmed. It is the same principle that allows me to enjoy horror films, whereas I would be horrified (no pun intended) if the events which made the film a horror film were to happen in real life. That is what I call a case of the domination (or horror) being one step removed from reality. In that case, of course, the domination is fictional. I would say that it is also a case of the domination being fictional and one step removed from reality if a man is enjoying a domination session in which he is imagining himself to be a victim, who is being forced to do and/or experience things against his will.

Now if, on the other hand, the character was enjoying the experience and was going along with it willingly, then in what sense could it still be said that he was being dominated? Domination is a case of someone (whether real or fictional) being forced to do, or to endure, something against their will, or at any rate, irrespective of their will. For me, it is far more exciting if the domination is taking place against, as opposed to merely irrespective of, a fictional character's will. At any rate, if a character was enjoying, and was a totally willing participant in, the experience, then that character would not really being dominated, since he would not be being forced to do anything that he wouldn't want to be doing, anyway. The actor could portray his character as imagining that he was being forced to do and/or experience those things against his will. In that case, the actor would be pretending to be a character who would be pretending to being forced to do those things against his will. In that case, the domination would be what I call two steps removed from reality.

But what could possibly be the point of having the domination two steps, as opposed to one step, removed from reality? Already in the case of the domination being one step removed from reality, no real life person is being forced to do anything which is genuinely against his will. Someone is imagining that they or someone else is being forced to do and/or experience something against his will, but in the back of his mind that someone knows that the "victim" (whether themselves or someone else) is actually loving it, and it is this combination of imagining that the "victim" is being dominated, and knowing in the back of one's mind that one is only imagining that the "victim" is being forced to endure the experience against his will, that makes the experience thrilling but not dangerous. So already in the case of the domination being one step removed from reality, there are no real life victims.

Furthermore, although this is ultimately a matter of personal taste, I find that I obtain no thrill, and little if any pleasure, from scenes in which a fictional character is pretending to being forced to do and/or endure something against his will. For one thing, how could the actor realistically portray that his character is consenting to what is happening, but is pretending to being forced to do and/or experience things against his will?. It can, through the use of appropriate dialogue, be made clear to the audience that his character is willing, but is pretending to he unwilling. My point, however, is this: Should the actor be portraying the emotions of the character (who is loving every minute of what is happening), or the emotions which the character is imagining (though not actually believing) himself to be experiencing. If the actor portrays the (positive) emotions which the character is experiencing, then how can he at the same time portray the (negative) emotions which the character is imagining himself to be experiencing? How can he simultaneously potray the wiillingness of the character and the unwillingness that the character is pretending to be feeling? It is certainly possible for the actor to portray the willingness and enthusiasm of the character, whilst at the same time, the dialogue makes it clear to the audience that he (the character) is imagining that he is being forced to do and/or experience those things against his will. But the actor is then not actually portraying the experience of being dominated, and this seems to me to defeat the whole purpose of making a film based on the theme of domination of a man by a woman in the first place. And if the actor does portray the emotions that the character is imagining himself to be feeling, then he might aa well simply portray the character as actually experiencing those emotions, as actually being forced to do thise things and to endure his situation against his will. If one is going to argue that is is unacceptable for an actor, whom I'll call A, to portray a character, whom I'll call C, who is being dominated and forced to do things against his will, but that it is perfectly all right for A to portray C as doing those things willingly and happily but imagining that he is being forced to do them and to endure his situation against his will, then if one were to apply that principle consistently, one would have to say that it is unacceptable to have C imagine that he is being forced to do things against his will, that A the should be portraying C , not as imagining that he is being forced do those things and to endure his situation against his will, but imagining that he is imagining that he is being forced to those things and to endure his situation against his will. And applying the same principle again, one would have to include that even that is unacceptable, that A should be portraying C, not as imagining that he is imagining that he is being forced to do things and to endure his situation against his will, but that he is imagining that he is imagining that he is imagining that he is being forced to do things and to endure his situation against his will ... and so on, ad infinitum. Thus one is led to an infinite regress, and one would be forced to conclude that it is unacceptable to create a character who imagines that he imagines that he imagines that he imagines that he imagines that he is imagines ... that he imagines that he is being forced to do and/or experience things against his will no matter how many times one repeats the phrase "he imagines that" in that sentence. In short, surely it makes far more sense for the actor to simply portray his character as being forced to do those things and to endure his situation against his will; insisting that the actor portray his character as only imagining that he is being forced to do those things and to endure his situation against his will, would serve no possible advantage as far as I can see, would not prevent harm of any kind to any real life person, and would only succeed in creating a depiction of domination that was so watered down that it would, at least for me, be a total and utter waste of time to view it.

I'll just conclude by saying that I don't think that there is anything particularly radical in what I'm saying, and that in fact I find it rather puzzling that I have to explain this at all. For surely the same principle applies to any form of fiction in which something bad happens to one or more of the characters? No-one, as far as I know, has argued that it is unacceptable for a character to be murdered in a murder mystery and that the author should write the story so that one or more of the characters only imagines that one or more of the other characters in the story is murdered. Few people would disagree with me when I say that that would only create a whole unnecessary, and potentially confusing, layer of complexity to the story, which would offer no advantage, which would not prevent the murder of a single real life person, and which would make the experience of reading the story at best a mere shadow of what it would be if one or more of the (fictional) characters in the story is murdered (which, of course, is the way that murder mysteries are actually written). Yet multiple times I have heard people say that it is unacceptable for fictional characters to be forced to do or experience things against their will, that if one is going to introduce the theme of domination and submission into a fictional story, then one should have the fictional characters not being forced to do or experience things against their will, but only role playing, only imagining that they are being forced to do and/or experience things against their will. The question I have is this: Why do those people think that it is acceptable for fictional characters to be murdered in stories, but unacceptable for fictional characters in stories to be forced to do and/or experience things against their will???

Last edited by Zeus28; 17-Sep-20 at 07:51.
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