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  #111  
Old 05-Oct-20, 00:12
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

They have been around 300 for years. I mean, did you expect women to just charge that forever? There are those that still wrestle for around 300.
  #112  
Old 05-Oct-20, 00:28
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris097 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Well, regarding 2):
- if you publicly advertise your rates, it's harder to raise them. Imagine having your rates all over you old tweets, pictures, whatever.
Recently the price of one of the submission room wrestlers switched from 175Ģ to 250Ģ and I just randomly noticed, because I wanted to book her.
- if you don't make your price public, you can charge different people different prices. Not ethic, but I'm pretty sure it happens.

I'm also pretty sure the industry in general profits of not making prices public (the girls profit, I mean):
- You probably don't mail 20 girls asking for their prices, so you won't just pick the cheapest one, which would drive prices down (if enough do it)
- If prices of 400$+/hour are all over the interent, I suspect lots of other girls would get interested in this. It's a niche now, I'm pretty sure most people outside have no clue how much money goes over the table.
If a woman is a sex worker, for example, charging 1000$ or 200$, why wouldn't she accommodate wrestling, where she doesn't need to get as intimate as with other customers? There are probably also enough woman in BDSM, who charge less.
And the more of those enter the wrestling world, the more competition..

There is a internal form of communication between the wrestlers at sessiongirls.com for example (mainly for exchanging information about dangerous customers, as I understand it) but I could also imagine that they communicate more.. Who knows ��*♂️

That's btw. also the only two ways how session rates could be reduced:
- Make them public (more people pick the cheapest girls harder to increase)
- Get more woman into the industry (advertising with high rates is surely one way to do it)
btw - In case it wasn't clear from my previous post, I'm not in favor of the girls making less money here. They can and should charge as much as people are willing to pay, and I have no problem with that. I'm not advocating they charge less so that I can have more sessions, it would only make sense for them if it netted them more in the long run.

It sounds like we're saying something similar on the idea that the girls might be communicating with each other about prices. Though it still seems like for the girl that's a little less attractive and/or a little less skilled or whatever, who can only book two $400 sessions a week, and who has more availability to fill, that she would benefit from lowering her rate to $200 and advertising it on her profile. I don't know how many girls fall into that category, but I'd think some would?

I don't see what's stopping a new girl from getting into the scene and saying "I'm going to undercut everyone at $200 a session, and I'm going to book 30 sessions a week". All she needs is a simple web page with a booking form, a way to take paypal payments, and a comprehensive FAQ answering common questions. She doesn't even have to provide an email on her profile, so no wasting time with question askers who don't read her FAQ, and I bet if she only charged $200 she'd still have people lining up provided she was halfway decent. If that scenario were to happen, I think it would only be a matter of time before other girls started lowering their prices too, but these things are always hard to predict.

BTW - I really agree with what you said about escorts. It actually makes me sad to see women selling sex for $200 because (presumably) they're unaware of other high paying alternatives.
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  #113  
Old 05-Oct-20, 03:44
gutpunch gutpunch is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

I do not believe that a high price is what is needed to filter the good and the bad customers out. There are some great low income people out there with big loving hearts that would love a session and at the same time there are some very wealthy people out there who are just tyrants. Rich or poor, you are either a fan or not a fan.
I say lower the cost of customs and sessions so that everyone can enjoy them and if you want to tip extra you can.
If my custom is good, I am willing to tip a bit more for a good job.
And if a session wrestler is reading this, I would happily buy a custom off of you if you can do a good job at a reasonable price.
Until then, Hello everyone,lol looks like we are in the same boat.
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  #114  
Old 05-Oct-20, 04:29
uxiel uxiel is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I don't see what's stopping a new girl from getting into the scene and saying "I'm going to undercut everyone at $200 a session, and I'm going to book 30 sessions a week". All she needs is a simple web page with a booking form, a way to take paypal payments, and a comprehensive FAQ answering common questions. She doesn't even have to provide an email on her profile, so no wasting time with question askers who don't read her FAQ, and I bet if she only charged $200 she'd still have people lining up provided she was halfway decent. If that scenario were to happen, I think it would only be a matter of time before other girls started lowering their prices too, but these things are always hard to predict.
This is just crazy, unless women are traveling, they're not getting that many sessions a week. You can do some multiplication and think it sounds great, the reality is there aren't that many paying customers out there, and most emails are from time-wasters, and half those who book sessions end up being no-shows. There's a reason girls from NY and LA travel. If they got enough business at home, they'd never (or rarely) leave.

I might add that girls don't charge any more in LA than in Cleveland, despite the cost of living differences (which is reflected in hotel costs, and food). Also, long tours will generally reflect the 80/20 principle. They may get tons of sessions when they visit NY and LA, and Vegas may be alright too. But Chicago is known to be a disappointment, they may waste a night or two in Baltimore and get absolutely nothing. Not too different from many concert tours. You basically have to crush the big cities in order to come out ahead at all. One other expense is baggage fees have gotten insanely high over the years. This can be mitigated with some special airline memberships, but they often take multiple bags with them and fly from city to city to city for several weeks. They need to book that stuff in advance, which is non-refundable (at least pre-COVID), and hope that not too many guys no-show them and they don't lose money on the trip. They are taking on a lot of risk.

On top of this, 30 hours a week is a lot, unless it's very short-term, like a tour. You're putting your body through a lot if you workout 30 hours a week.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gutpunch [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I do not believe that a high price is what is needed to filter the good and the bad customers out. There are some great low income people out there with big loving hearts that would love a session and at the same time there are some very wealthy people out there who are just tyrants.
Repeat it over and over again, this is just missing the point. Companies recruit college kids all the time and say "we require GPA of at least 3.5." No, grades don't mean shit, and there are some great candidates who had GPAs below 3.5, or even below 3.0. But filter to 3.5+ and you get mostly quality candidates, and the filter is very low effort. Same thing here. You don't need to waste hours filtering through and trying to guess which guys are nice and which ones aren't when you can just filter out the duds with a higher price point.

You are not entitled to a session. You are paying for her time and company, if she's more of a bodybuilder and not just a regular wrestler, she has a very unique look that takes years to achieve, and very few people can compare. Respect her, either pay her rates or don't waste her time, and appreciate that this is usually short-lived. A year or two from now, she may no longer be on the scene.

Let's get real, they'll give you a good session if you can pay, but they're interested in higher-income clients who will repeat. They usually ask you how often you session, who else you've met, and so forth. This is partly a proxy for "how much money do you make (or spend)?"

I would rather have an amazing $400 session with a woman who's happy than an ok $300 session with someone who's frustrated, getting spammed all day long, is distracted during the session because she has a back-to-back and gets some texts she has to answer about his arrival. But there are also some new girls who charge $400 because she heard she can and just doesn't give a very good session. Girls having some reviews on them before booking can help filter that out.
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  #115  
Old 05-Oct-20, 05:48
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxiel [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This is just crazy, unless women are traveling, they're not getting that many sessions a week. You can do some multiplication and think it sounds great, the reality is there aren't that many paying customers out there, and most emails are from time-wasters, and half those who book sessions end up being no-shows. There's a reason girls from NY and LA travel. If they got enough business at home, they'd never (or rarely) leave.

I might add that girls don't charge any more in LA than in Cleveland, despite the cost of living differences (which is reflected in hotel costs, and food). Also, long tours will generally reflect the 80/20 principle. They may get tons of sessions when they visit NY and LA, and Vegas may be alright too. But Chicago is known to be a disappointment, they may waste a night or two in Baltimore and get absolutely nothing. Not too different from many concert tours. You basically have to crush the big cities in order to come out ahead at all. One other expense is baggage fees have gotten insanely high over the years. This can be mitigated with some special airline memberships, but they often take multiple bags with them and fly from city to city to city for several weeks. They need to book that stuff in advance, which is non-refundable (at least pre-COVID), and hope that not too many guys no-show them and they don't lose money on the trip. They are taking on a lot of risk.

On top of this, 30 hours a week is a lot, unless it's very short-term, like a tour. You're putting your body through a lot if you workout 30 hours a week.
Did you see my post [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]by any chance? Would be curious to know your thoughts.

I'm just speculating here, but I wonder if the perception that there's such little demand for session wrestlers is due to a widely held and perhaps false assumption that the only people who have an interest in wrestling women are mixed wrestling fetishists that are familiar with the online scene. It's always important to know your market. At this point I don't have any data, but I do have a sneaking suspicion that there is a large dormant market of men out there who might have an interest in wrestling or sparring with a women, but who are totally turned off by the price point and the overt fetish stigma. These are stupid, but some example's of alternate marketing slogans off the top of my head...

"Need a new workout plan? Wrestle with a skilled woman!"
"I'm a skilled female fighter who needs guys to practice on!"
"Hire a trained woman to kick your husband's butt!"
"Hire a trained woman to knock your boyfriend down a peg"
"Hire a trained woman for your party or event!"
"Could you defend yourself against a skilled woman? Find out!"
"Keep your ego in check, test yourself against a trained woman!"

I also think it's a mistake to assume that just because a guy only wants to pay $150 for a session that there's a higher probability he'll be violent, creepy, or unwilling to pay. These are simply men who are in the market for a different product. It's like, you might have a fetish for red socks with green polka dots, and you might be willing to pay $100 for the perfect pair of socks of this nature. But the next guy doesn't have a fetish for these socks at all, he just happens to think they look cool. Naturally he won't want to pay $100 for them, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's any less reputable, and if there are 10x guys like this, one can still turn a profit by charging far less than $100 for socks.

Just some thoughts! I think this is an interesting topic to speculate on, I wish it weren't so contentious
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  #116  
Old 05-Oct-20, 06:34
uxiel uxiel is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

I read your post, and I think rates more or less stay the same because by the time you go over $600 you have very few customers. And if you have enough, you probably know them reasonably well and have no need to advertise on sessiongirls or wb270. Most girls don't session for so many years, so there's not too much time to increase rates either.

If they publicly write "only $300!", some guys may actually think "that's too cheap, I don't want it." People do tend to believe higher price points give you higher quality. In general, there is correlation, but not so much at the extremes. I have a nice $800 couch (can't remember exactly, bought it long ago), and I've seen similar items priced for $2500 or more at "fancy" stores. Someone is buying them, or that store would be out of business.

Quote:
If the more-established girls can fill their entire calendar with $400 sessions, I would expect to see the less-established girls publicly advertise their comparatively cheaper rates.
That might work in a situation where there are two girls in city X, and 100 guys, and they each want to session more than once a month. In reality, a city might have a few good regulars, but mostly travelers, so schedule availability and so forth becomes a factor. Guys tend to want variety. They may get bored of seeing the same girl every time (but sometimes not). The competition optimization here is a multi-variable problem. Then there's also the reality of girls (and guys) being disorganized. I remember Holly would often email me maybe 3-5 days in advance of her trip to my city asking when I could meet. That's just really short notice. I hope she had some other appointments lined up already, especially when some guys have to give a certain amount of notice to take off work.

But the prices are not quite flat. I know of a couple girls that have been at $300 or $350 for at least 5 years, probably much longer. And others who came in at $350, eventually went up to $400, even went up to $500.

Girls get a lot of emails with guys trying to negotiate prices, lots of complaints. They see it as an insult in general (sometimes they'll cut a deal). The unseen part of their work is all the hours training and the rigorous dieting and so forth. I just can't imagine even if I were to be successful in negotiating $400 down to $300 that it wouldn't be an awkward session where she just becomes less enthusiastic during it. If the price is too high, I just politely decline and move on with my life. If my employer told me they wanted to give me a 25% paycut, I would be less likely to smile at work too.

For many of the average, or somewhat above average, session girls, I have personally seen:
  • girl tapping on her phone all day long (I was having a meal with her after our session), dealing with guys trying to negotiate, complaining about the guy who no-showed her, etc.
  • girl who couldn't get enough deposits even for a hotel room and had to cancel her trip to a very popular session city
  • girl who was staying in an admittedly not-so-popular city for a couple days and could only get 2 bookings

Grabbing that $300 or $400 or $200/hour is just a lot more work (especially to do so consistently) than putting an ad online and saying "book now."

Quote:
I also think it's a mistake to assume that just because a guy only wants to pay $150 for a session that there's a higher probability he'll be violent, creepy, or unwilling to pay.
I think there is a very high correlation between low-pay (or poverty even) and crime. There have been a lot of crime increases during the current recession for instance. It's actually pretty remarkable how easy the booking process for wrestling sessions is. They sometimes ask for a deposit, it's about 50/50 whether they ask for references, and they almost never ask you for more personally identifying information like women in the escort scene do. They don't even ask for a picture. They are taking on a lot of risk. They have absolutely no idea who you are. A guy willing to pay $400 without arguing instead of begging for a $100 session is just less likely to be dangerous. But if you politely say it's too much for your price range, they sometimes will cut a deal for like $200 for half an hour or something, depending on their schedule and so forth.

At the end of the day, even if they lowered their rates to $100, they'd get more business, absolutely. It still wouldn't be enough on a regular basis to get 6 or 8 or 10 sessions a day, in most cases. They'd be doing way more work, taking on way more risk, for less money. The lower the price point, the more no-show guys you probably get too. And personally for me at my job, I work more or less 40 hours a week, but not all days are the same. Some days are really intense, others are closer to checking-my-email days. If I had to work at 100% (which is what the SGs would be doing if they were doing that many sessions every day) every single day, I would burn out.
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  #117  
Old 05-Oct-20, 06:54
gutpunch gutpunch is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

uxiel A lot of good wholesome people out there in the 95% (probably 99%) would be good long term clients that would make the session wrestler happy if they got a shot at getting a session that they can afford.
And if session wrestlers are not getting many sessions its because they are priced out of the market.
When weeding out needs to take place, its not done by separating the rich and the poor in the wrestling world. Its done by separating the time wasters, the creeps, the rude , and the bad with the good, the pleasant, the honest people.
Just like when customers separate the good and the bad session wrestlers in their reviews.
Now uxiel, if you want a 'real' wrestling match with a 'real' female wrestler, why now book a private lesson with a female jujitsu instructor and be honest with them. Tell them you want to work on your grappling and you would rather wrestler a female. A jujitsu private lesson is as low as 50 bucks.
lol just saying that you can find some great women to wrestle with in a honest setting without having to pay 400 bucks.
Think about it. Here is what you can get for 400 bucks....
2 tickets to the rolling stones.
2 tickets to any NFL, NBA, MBL, NHL,MLS, or other sporting event.
You can buy a Nintendo or a playstation.
When you put it into perspective 400 is a lot of money for just a 1 hour event.

As for the session wrestler, they would not hesitate to pick up a ten dollar bill on the ground if they saw one. The best business people are not the ones that only take the big bucks, but also go after the nickles and dimes too.
Here is where we can agree though, If you want to pay 400 on a session wrestler,,,,, you can. But if other session wrestlers want to make a lot of money and have a large flock of good customers come to them at the lower rate, then I highly recommend the cost of sessions go down too 175 dollars for a hour.
Just like customs for me. Would the session wrestler want a 100 percent of something, or 100 percent of nothing as I give my custom money to a non wrestling company to make my wrestling videos for me.
  #118  
Old 05-Oct-20, 07:06
uxiel uxiel is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Last time I went to an NFL game, tickets were more like $350/ticket. Add in overpriced food and merch, it becomes quite expensive.

And (most of) these sessions are as memorable to me as NFL games I've gone to.

I personally don't listen to mainstream music, so concert tickets are much cheaper for me. Those events are also memorable.

It's not about the money. As long as I can comfortably afford it, I'm not going to complain.

The jujitsu idea just sounds like a bad idea if you don't want competitive things. This is a fetish scene. No denying the element of sexuality here.

They don't care about your money or complaints, because they get as much or more money from $400 price points. If they wanted to lower their prices, they would.

I think you're underestimating how hard it would be to get consistent bookings where the guy actually shows up and doesn't waste your time at $175/hour.
  #119  
Old 05-Oct-20, 10:26
gutpunch gutpunch is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Uxiel , your doing a session wrestler a favor by saving her time, hotel, and travel costs. Why can't she do sessions at a reduced price when she is in her own city?
You never really answered that.
If a session wrestler lives in Vegas for example, and men are constantly coming to Vegas. Why cant a session wrestler downsized her session costs since she has no overhead?
When there are travel costs I already mentioned in my first post that 'the rate' put in place to help with travel,time, and hotel costs.
No overhead, pass the savings onto the customer.
Also why cant there be anything for the little guy? Dominatrix's charge a lot less than a session wrestler and they dont charge the insane rates as a session wrestler.
  #120  
Old 05-Oct-20, 12:07
Juvi Juvi is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by gutpunch [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Uxiel , your doing a session wrestler a favor by saving her time, hotel, and travel costs. Why can't she do sessions at a reduced price when she is in her own city?
You never really answered that.
If a session wrestler lives in Vegas for example, and men are constantly coming to Vegas. Why cant a session wrestler downsized her session costs since she has no overhead?
When there are travel costs I already mentioned in my first post that 'the rate' put in place to help with travel,time, and hotel costs.
No overhead, pass the savings onto the customer.
May be you never met any of those, but there are session girls asking a different price depending on if they are travelling or if you are coming to their place...but thatīs not something like a human right. You are interested in a session, she gives you her price, you go for the session, or you decide no to do so, and choose somebody else instead. Itīs as easy as that

Quote:
Originally Posted by gutpunch [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Also why cant there be anything for the little guy? Dominatrix's charge a lot less than a session wrestler and they dont charge the insane rates as a session wrestler.
No offence, but thatīs life, not everybody can afford everything. My current car did cost 15.000 Euro, there are other people having cars of nearly 100.000 Euro...I canīt afford those, so I choose something that I can afford...
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