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  #261  
Old 18-Oct-20, 04:25
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Anyone who suspects price gouging during the declared state of emergency should report it to the attorney general's office through the Price Gouging Complaint Form or by calling (866) 9NO-SCAM. Before filing a price gouging complaint, officials ask that you gather as much information as possible.
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  #262  
Old 18-Oct-20, 05:49
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Anyone who suspects price gouging during the declared state of emergency should report it to the attorney general's office through the Price Gouging Complaint Form or by calling (866) 9NO-SCAM. Before filing a price gouging complaint, officials ask that you gather as much information as possible.
I'm going to write a letter to my congressman.

I think those who think session prices have gotten too high do have a solid point or two. But, at the end of the day, it is the prerogative of the provider to charge what she will, and it is your prerogative to accept or decline. If a provider really does charge an exorbitant fee, she will not get any takers or just a very precious few and perhaps realize that she should lower her fee. For example, look at that provider who recently added herself to SG who is, IIRC, charging $3,000 for one hour. Everyone scoffed and moved on.

I want to add that I don't think it's out of line to attempt to negotiate a fee. People negotiate fees for services all the time. So long as you approach it tactfully, I don't see any issue. Also, there are people on this forum who have spoken of success in getting cheaper sessions from non-traditional sources, such as Craigslist and strippers. If you think providers are charging too much, you could try your hand with these non-traditional sources.
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  #263  
Old 18-Oct-20, 05:55
mark.johnson21 mark.johnson21 is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Arekah charged me $350. Maybe you were asking her to do way more than I was or something -- I don't know, but any rate, your experience is not universal. You prefer one session with Arekah than three sessions with new wrestlers. Okay. I'd rather have the three sessions. Your preferences are not universal. So as far as counting the hours go, while it may not be correct for you, it is correct for me. I don't generally find sessions to be drastically different from one session wrestler to the next.

Did I ask the girl getting 20 sessions a month if she wants more sessions? Yeah, actually I did. Did I ask her if she would be willing to do more for half the price? Uh, no... who in their right mind would ask that? That being said, my last session was a few weeks ago, and she had 14 sessions @ $400/hr over the course of the 2 days she was visiting my city, and planned it so that she would have a half hour in between sessions. A lot of what we talked about during and after the session was the session wrestler's perspective vs the client's, especially in regards to booking. It was actually a really interesting conversation where we both learned a lot about what the other goes through when it comes to setting up sessions. One thing I told her was that most clients cannot afford to pay $400/session with any kind of regularity, that booking a session is a once in a blue moon sort of thing, and so picking a session wrestler can be difficult since almost none actually post their hourly rates, respond in a timely manner, answer simple questions in an opening e-mail, etc... And given that he has no idea if she session wrestler will even respond at all, a guy will usually write to several different session wrestlers at the same time to see who's going to charge what and who is willing to do what. She was actually pretty impressed by that nugget of information and said that it makes a lot of sense. She admitted she gets so many e-mails per day that she often confuses one client with another and frequently forgets who she has and hasn't responded to because it's too many e-mails to keep up with -- and that's in addition to building a website, updating various different profiles on various social media sites, creating daily content for her IWC store, etc... She said that 80% of the e-mails she gets are BS, and that sometimes the ones e-mailing her will block her, which she doesn't understand. I suggested that maybe whoever wrote her suddenly got afraid that their wife or GF might find the e-mail.

She told me directly that despite the fact that she gets dozens upon dozens of sessions per month -- she always wants more because she's self-employed with no health insurance, benefits, or paid leave. Sessions are her livelihood. And as a self-employed independent contractor, myself, I fully understand. When you work for yourself, every gig is important. You don't turn down work if you don't have to. You don't know if and when things will slow, so you take as much work as you can when you can. And sometimes -- you work for a little bit less than you'd like because you'd rather make money than not. No, you're not gonna undercut yourself to the point where you're working for pittance, but that doesn't mean you won't take the occasional gig that's less than your usual rate.

Having the opinion that $400 is too much for a session is not acting entitled. Acting entitled would be directly asking session wrestlers to lower their prices, which is not something I've ever done or would do. So kindly hold back your unfounded accusations and stop assuming you know what's what. When a session wrestler has told me she was gonna charge an hourly rate that I couldn't afford, I wrote back: "Unfortunately, it's a little too much for me to spend on a session at present, so I'll have to pass this time around. Best of luck, though!"... and she wrote back: "What were you looking to spend? Maybe we can work something out." So, yeah, some very much are willing to negotiate.

Assuming that the guys on this thread that don't find $400+ per hour for a session to be worth it are time wasters is ridiculous. You have no insight to any kind of correspondence they've had with session wrestlers. All you have is whatever a handful of session wrestlers ranted on Twitter while they were upset about who knows what -- and given they are mostly presenting a certain persona to market themselves (often an acerbic and superior one), it's questionable how true what they wrote on there even is, and if they're exaggerating the frequency of whatever they're griping about.

They are free to price their sessions as they see fit -- yes -- however, if it's leading to them complaining about lots of guys wanting lower rates, and it's sparked a 27-page long forum argument on the main mixed wrestling forum on the web, well... maybe there's something to that, you know?

If $400/hr is worth it to you or anybody else, cool. I don't really find it's worth it to me, and neither do plenty of others. Don't get me wrong -- I have enjoyed some sessions and I'd like to enjoy more. But if it's gonna be that costly, I'm not gonna be doing it very frequently. That's what the whole point of this thread is. Session wrestlers want more business. Clients want more sessions. But they cost a bit too much for most clients. Lower the price to something reasonable, and everybody can be happy.

And to answer your loaded hypothetical question not grounded in any kind of real experience, I'd still prefer the $300 session.

Last edited by mark.johnson21; 18-Oct-20 at 06:23.
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  #264  
Old 18-Oct-20, 06:46
uxiel uxiel is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Actually I know these things based on the details of emails and other communications they've told me about when chatting with them in person. I would never assume everyone feels the same way about whatever Megan Jones is ranting about on twitter.

Quote:
They are free to price their sessions as they see fit -- yes -- however, if it's leading to them complaining about guys wanting lower rates, and it's sparked a 27-page long forum argument on the main mixed wrestling forum on the web, well... maybe there's something to that, you know?
As far as I can tell, it was sparked by guys complaining about prices. It's an expensive thing, there is a lot of entitlement in this thread. The standard price could be $100, and people would still complain.

Quote:
But they cost a bit too much for most clients.
That's the thing, they don't want to meet most clients. They want to meet guys who are willing to spend money and not cause problems. There is a huge wealth gap in this world/country, as we all know. If you can get higher prices from 14 people in 2 days, I just don't see any reason to lower prices. She could possibly lower her fee to $300 and try to do 10 sessions a day instead of 7 if she's lucky enough to get the scheduling to work out and not have more no-shows, but that's a great way to burnout. All for < 10% more income.

Quote:
Having the opinion that $400 is too much for a session is not acting entitled. Acting entitled would be directly asking session wrestlers to lower their prices, which is not something I've ever done or would do.
No, it isn't. Your process for negotiating a price was very reasonable. I'm not sure why you jumped in on what some of the other guys were saying. It is a little entitled, or at least presumptuous, to complain about their prices and say they'd be better off if they lowered their prices and work more hours for less money as if you know how to manage their job and life better than they do. Even if you don't say that to them in person.

Quote:
I don't generally find sessions to be drastically different from one session wrestler to the next.
I see. Okay, fair enough. Not much point in putting Arekah on a pedestal then, just look for the $300 wrestlers, who still exist, and book them. At the end of the day, probably 90% or more of the $400 sessions I've done were excellent, and most excellent sessions I've had were around $400. A decent number of cheaper sessions were good too, but the probability isn't as reliable. At this point, I know who I like sessioning with and would rather just repeat with the same few, which means they don't happen too often since we live in different cities.

There is some truth to the initial complaints in here. There are women entering the scene and charging $500 or more just to make a quick buck, who aren't very good. Once a few reviews get out about them, they probably won't last very long.

Quote:
Assuming that the guys on this thread that don't find $400+ per hour for a session to be worth it are time wasters is ridiculous.
Right, but assuming time-wasters are time-wasters is not ridiculous. Price is a filter, if nothing else. People serious about spending $400 (and sending a deposit) are less likely to no-show than someone insisting on $300, then refusing to pay a deposit.
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  #265  
Old 18-Oct-20, 07:56
mark.johnson21 mark.johnson21 is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxiel [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It is a little entitled, or at least presumptuous, to complain about their prices and say they'd be better off if they lowered their prices and work more hours for less money as if you know how to manage their job and life better than they do. Even if you don't say that to them in person.
Let's be clear -- "entitled" means believing that you deserve special treatment or privileges and that you have a right to it. None of the guys here are demanding that they have a right to pay less than any other guy, or that the session wrestlers should grant an individual special discounted rates. So, the word "entitled" is not apt here. What guys are doing in this thread is saying that for them, the experience of the session is not worth the high price it costs. That's not being entitled. That's just stating general dissatisfaction with the session price vs the session experience. That's what this is really all about. To only value the session wrestler's self-assessed hourly worth but disregard the client's experience is unfair. If they were unquestionably worth what they're charging, there wouldn't be a debate. That there is a debate means there's obviously a good number of dissatisfied customers. And that's the real takeaway here. There are a lot of dissatisfied customers.

Regarding lowering prices and managing time, as I said above, I'm coming from the perspective of someone who is also self-employed and hustles to get gigs. Sometimes, you do have to be flexible on price to make your money, because you may not make anything at all if you're not:

Last month, a client asked me to do a job for $250 flat. I countered with $350 and they ended up going with someone else. I was unable to fill that time slot with any other gig, and so while I could have made $250, I ended up making $0 instead. In contrast, I had a gig two weeks ago that I quoted @ $300/hr, fully expecting the client to negotiate, but he agreed immediately and paid it. Lucky! But next week, I have a similar gig that pays $225 total even though it's about the same amount of work (if not more) than the $300/hr gig. I'm positive if I would have demanded $300/hr, they would have told me to take a hike. Sometimes you can demand top dollar and get it. Other times you can't and have to work for less than you'd like as the alternative could mean you make nothing at all. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that money keeps coming in. If you are self-employed, that means you are the CEO of your own business, which means you do what you have to do to stay in business.

It's very similar with session wrestlers. They're providing a service for a very high price, and it's too high for many. Nobody in this thread (at least they I could see so far) is demanding that they severely undersell themselves or charge half of what they normally do. But just because session wrestlers might think they're worth $400/hr doesn't mean that clients do. And if they're smart, they'll realize it and be a bit flexible to maximize how much they can make. I would never be so bold as to suggest this to a session wrestler unless they were complaining about it to me directly. It's something they'd have to figure out on their own, I think, which many will when they notice business is perpetually slow.

And let's face it -- $250, $300 and $350 are still insanely high hourly rates.

Last edited by mark.johnson21; 18-Oct-20 at 08:26.
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  #266  
Old 18-Oct-20, 08:33
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Subboy2 Subboy2 is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by uxiel [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Actually I know these things based on the details of emails and other communications they've told me about when chatting with them in person. I would never assume everyone feels the same way about whatever Megan Jones is ranting about on twitter.



As far as I can tell, it was sparked by guys complaining about prices. It's an expensive thing, there is a lot of entitlement in this thread. The standard price could be $100, and people would still complain.



That's the thing, they don't want to meet most clients. They want to meet guys who are willing to spend money and not cause problems. There is a huge wealth gap in this world/country, as we all know. If you can get higher prices from 14 people in 2 days, I just don't see any reason to lower prices. She could possibly lower her fee to $300 and try to do 10 sessions a day instead of 7 if she's lucky enough to get the scheduling to work out and not have more no-shows, but that's a great way to burnout. All for < 10% more income.



No, it isn't. Your process for negotiating a price was very reasonable. I'm not sure why you jumped in on what some of the other guys were saying. It is a little entitled, or at least presumptuous, to complain about their prices and say they'd be better off if they lowered their prices and work more hours for less money as if you know how to manage their job and life better than they do. Even if you don't say that to them in person.



I see. Okay, fair enough. Not much point in putting Arekah on a pedestal then, just look for the $300 wrestlers, who still exist, and book them. At the end of the day, probably 90% or more of the $400 sessions I've done were excellent, and most excellent sessions I've had were around $400. A decent number of cheaper sessions were good too, but the probability isn't as reliable. At this point, I know who I like sessioning with and would rather just repeat with the same few, which means they don't happen too often since we live in different cities.

There is some truth to the initial complaints in here. There are women entering the scene and charging $500 or more just to make a quick buck, who aren't very good. Once a few reviews get out about them, they probably won't last very long.



Right, but assuming time-wasters are time-wasters is not ridiculous. Price is a filter, if nothing else. People serious about spending $400 (and sending a deposit) are less likely to no-show than someone insisting on $300, then refusing to pay a deposit.
Excellent post. 100% agree
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  #267  
Old 18-Oct-20, 10:09
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

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Originally Posted by Subboy2 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
NOBODY said they wanted fees going up.


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Originally Posted by Juvi [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Nobody wants the fees to go up


Quote:
Originally Posted by London_Wrestler [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Show us ONE post where anybody has said they would "LIKE" to see rates going up high
Old 18-Oct-20, 10:26
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Old 18-Oct-20, 10:27
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  #268  
Old 18-Oct-20, 10:52
London_Wrestler London_Wrestler is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

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Not really sure what you are trying to achieve here.

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Originally Posted by Fritz [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
thats the best posting in this thread and its the posting #245 already in this thread. What a pitty that all the white knights like @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] & co who would like to see the session-fees going up high, are too stupid to understand this.
I ask again - show me where people have said they would like to see rates going up.
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  #269  
Old 18-Oct-20, 12:11
ours01 ours01 is online now
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Anyone who suspects price gouging during the declared state of emergency should report it to the attorney general's office through the Price Gouging Complaint Form or by calling (866) 9NO-SCAM. Before filing a price gouging complaint, officials ask that you gather as much information as possible.

then on june 10-20% of vendors should be accused, specially for the mask and desinfectant vendors! They had ALL prices between 3 to 10 times higher than now! it's an illusion, sincerly!

But strangely in such things robbery capitalism fanatiker tells us, let's the market play! Here i found disgusting and people had to been put in the jail. With vital good to get rich on the misery of others is not only disgusting but highly criminal and not capitalism!

But with the session girls i tell this, let the market play! Because it's not a vitaly important good. So there let the market play... i'm sure in 1-2 years all is normalized. Forget now, now are special times... i guess a lot of us will no more able to pay sessions anymore for some years if the economy collaps... and then the price will fall.

And by the way, why the pharmaceutical entreprises can ask for the medecin what they want in U.S.A.. USA has by far the biggest capitalims protection on world, they are even protecting entreprises that in Germany, France oder other european country would be accused for high fraud!

Last edited by ours01; 18-Oct-20 at 12:30.
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  #270  
Old 18-Oct-20, 13:36
London_Wrestler London_Wrestler is offline
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Default Re: Session rates are getting out of hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Anyone who suspects price gouging during the declared state of emergency should report it to the attorney general's office through the Price Gouging Complaint Form or by calling (866) 9NO-SCAM. Before filing a price gouging complaint, officials ask that you gather as much information as possible.
One or two session providers raising prices perhaps 43% is not price gouging for the following reasons:

1. Supply of the service is not limited - new wrestlers are free to join the market at any time. Session wrestling is not in short supply and it can never be deemed to be an essential service in the same way as hand sanitiser, loo roll, cleaning products were during this pandemic.

2. The vast majority of providers did not raise their prices - buyers were (and still are) able to wrestle at the "old prices".

3. 43% is not heavily inflating prices - the only example we have discussed for price rises during the pandemic was an increase from 175 to 250. During the pandemic some suppliers increased prices of hand cleaner 10 times and bleach was reported in some cases 25 times typical price.

As I said before, the majority of wrestlers in the establishment which I looked at were roughly within one standard deviation of the mean price.
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