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View Poll Results: What will be the outcome of this session?
InTheFlesh86 will win Part 1, but lose Part 2. 5 5.26%
InTheFlesh86 will win Part 2, but lose Part 1. 6 6.32%
InTheFlesh86 will win both Part 1 and Part 2 (most likely). 20 21.05%
InTheFlesh86 will lose both Part 1 and Part 2 (<1% chance). 13 13.68%
I want Dez to make InTheFlesh86 cry. 51 53.68%
Voters: 95. You may not vote on this poll

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  #111  
Old 02-Aug-20, 20:56
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Aside from the fact that apparently the vast majority of people want Dez to make me cry, I would like to point out that just as many people think I will win both parts than think I'll lose even one of them. It's good to know that there are still some objective thinkers around here
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  #112  
Old 03-Aug-20, 08:14
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Fact: I am incapable of losing to a human female in any physical endeavor. Ever.

For the last several weeks, my wife has been getting into tennis and meeting with a group to play. Well tonight she wanted to practice her skills against me so we went at it. Now I haven't touched a tennis racket since I was 12 years old and my mom made me do this dumb Summer camp thing. That was like 20 years ago. Despite this disadvantage, in the 6 games I played with my wife I won a masculine 5-1.

So you see gang, sometimes it pays to be male.
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  #113  
Old 03-Aug-20, 09:09
RNC RNC is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Fact: I am incapable of losing to a human female in any physical endeavor. Ever.

For the last several weeks, my wife has been getting into tennis and meeting with a group to play. Well tonight she wanted to practice her skills against me so we went at it. Now I haven't touched a tennis racket since I was 12 years old and my mom made me do this dumb Summer camp thing. That was like 20 years ago. Despite this disadvantage, in the 6 games I played with my wife I won a masculine 5-1.

So you see gang, sometimes it pays to be male.
I've had the same experiences as you. I have female friends who regularly play tennis, basketball and soccer. They have been training multiple times a week for years. My only experience in these is messing around on the street when I was a child - but, if we were to take out a basketball, soccer ball or tennis racket now, I would be better than them. I know this because we have done this (very occasionally) over the years.

That's why the wrestling thing really threw me. When booking my first session, I was absolutely sure that I would toy with the wrestler (Sable from LWS). I planned to keep it 0-0 until near the end of the session, and then to let her submit me once or twice so as not to hurt her pride.

My vision of how the session would go couldn't have been more wrong. Not only did I lose. I lost quickly. My first submission was 10-20 seconds into the match. She didn't break a sweat, while I was pleading with her for water breaks. And she was laughing. She seemed genuinely surprised at how bad at wrestling I was. I lost to submission holds that I would have thought could only work in fantasy matches. Breast-smothers and hand-over-mouth smothers stick out the most, particularly the former. I remember think 'WTF is happening'. I'll never forget it.

My explanation for the above is that technique matters in all sports more than I had thought (my previous explanation was that, in all sports, even trained women are nowhere near as good as average men). I probably have ok technique for tennis, basketball or soccer just from growing up and playing similar sports. I don't have any wrestling or grappling technique.

@[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] I think your choice of session is a little cowardly, as you are leaving the door open for excuses when you lose. You'll be able to tell yourself that if the rules were different (and you were allowed to attack - not just defend), you would have beaten Dez.

You may not think you'll need an excuse (and maybe you won't) but I bet if you do lose, you'll justify the loss to yourself as being due to the rules favouring Dez.
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  #114  
Old 03-Aug-20, 19:21
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

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Originally Posted by RNC [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
@[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] I think your choice of session is a little cowardly, as you are leaving the door open for excuses when you lose. You'll be able to tell yourself that if the rules were different (and you were allowed to attack - not just defend), you would have beaten Dez.

You may not think you'll need an excuse (and maybe you won't) but I bet if you do lose, you'll justify the loss to yourself as being due to the rules favouring Dez.
I'm really curious to know what you mean by this, because my feeling was actually just the opposite. I've said before that I intend on being mostly defensive with Dez which I'm aware will make it harder for her to submit me. So if I were still to lose under those circumstances I feel like I wouldn't have much of an excuse, whereas if I were to try to "attack" by attempting some kind of Jiu-jitsu technique I've never learned, and she were to counter it and submit me, I think I'd be more likely to say, "Yeah, but in a real fight I wouldn't have done that". Granted, I'll still be able to use that excuse either way, but I think it would carry more weight if I actually tried to beat her in a "Jiu-jitsu match".

Where you maybe thinking of the submission contest (part 1)? I agree that if that was all we did then I could say, "Well she might have submitted me, but in a real fight she'd never get me in those holds", but that's why we'll be grappling right after, to counter that excuse.

Where else do you see the rules favoring Dez?
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  #115  
Old 03-Aug-20, 19:31
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'm really curious to know what you mean by this, because my feeling was actually just the opposite. I've said before that I intend on being mostly defensive with Dez which I'm aware will make it harder for her to submit me. So if I were still to lose under those circumstances I feel like I wouldn't have much of an excuse, whereas if I were to try to "attack" by attempting some kind of Jiu-jitsu technique I've never learned, and she were to counter it and submit me, I think I'd be more likely to say, "Yeah, but in a real fight I wouldn't have done that". Granted, I'll still be able to use that excuse either way, but I think it would carry more weight if I actually tried to beat her in a "Jiu-jitsu match".

Where you maybe thinking of the submission contest (part 1)? I agree that if that was all we did then I could say, "Well she might have submitted me, but in a real fight she'd never get me in those holds", but that's why we'll be grappling right after, to counter that excuse.

Where else do you see the rules favoring Dez?
I was joking when calling you cowardly of course. But I was referring to part 2, where you grapple without attacking. If you're not trying to attack her, she is likely to eventually catch you in something. For example, in many of my sessions, I've turned down easy RNCs (which if I'd went for I'd be very confident I'd have won that fall) only to lose the fall a few minutes later. Attack can be a good form of defence, so you are limiting yourself in that sense.

If I was to lose 1-0 in a 15 minute contest when trying only to defend, I'd be telling myself "yeah, but if I'd tried to attack I'd have won 3-1". If you are both allowed to attack, it's much clearer who the winner is.
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  #116  
Old 03-Aug-20, 19:51
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by RNC [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I was joking when calling you cowardly of course. But I was referring to part 2, where you grapple without attacking. If you're not trying to attack her, she is likely to eventually catch you in something. For example, in many of my sessions, I've turned down easy RNCs (which if I'd went for I'd be very confident I'd have won that fall) only to lose the fall a few minutes later. Attack can be a good form of defence, so you are limiting yourself in that sense.

If I was to lose 1-0 in a 15 minute contest when trying only to defend, I'd be telling myself "yeah, but if I'd tried to attack I'd have won 3-1". If you are both allowed to attack, it's much clearer who the winner is.
Oh weird, that's actually the opposite of what @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] and @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] have told me in the past, which is that BJJ is actually most effective when the person is trying to attack because it makes them more vulnerable (having their arms and legs extended), but I think I see what you mean too. I don't know, I definitely don't have any intention of making excuses after this. I'll talk to Dez about it and see what she thinks as well.

Like I've said before, I'm really just less interested in the question "Could I beat this woman in a BJJ match?" than I am the question, "Could this woman literally walk up to me right now and kill me without my being able to do a thing about it?" so I thought that defending would be a more accurate way to simulate that. I think regardless of what my approach is, I'm definitely going to try to keep a mental note of things like "Okay, if this were life and death technically I could have grabbed her throat/pulled her hair etc there".

I could give a longer explanation of exactly what my thinking is here, but I'll assume most people aren't interested (though I find it interesting). I also plan on keeping an open mind, so who knows? Maybe I'll get in there and it will be totally different than I'm thinking. Maybe for a couple of rolls I'll try to do some submissions.
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  #117  
Old 03-Aug-20, 19:58
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

I think there could be some truth in both opinions. It's probably more likely to 'lose' if not attempting to gain any positions, or score any points (even with pins), but it could still be more points would be conceded if doing so (potentially, not inevitably) because it then opens up counter attacking possibilities, which are good for wrestling girls in general probably, not only BJJ girls.

In my first session it didn't make much difference anyway. Mayra Conde was too powerful to defend against, not to mention my inexperience in doing so. She let me start on her back one time. It'd be different for you because you're I guess stronger than Mayra, and certainly Dez, going into your first session. But the inexperience part will be the same, although you might be more stubborn in defending than I was, before tapping (and might have thought about some ways to defend, rather than just having watched DWW videos for entertainment like me at that point I think!).
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  #118  
Old 03-Aug-20, 20:13
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

That all makes sense. I guess it's impossible to replicate a real fight so there can always be debate about what rule-set mimics it best.

A separate point..... At times in our session, Dez reminded me that her BJJ is MMA focused as opposed to pure jiu-jitsu rules focused. She'd sometimes get me in a hold and pretend to rain punches or elbows on me - and tell me how lucky I am that this isn't a real fight. So even if you do keep it to 0-0, you are grappling with a restricted Dez. Maybe a real fight is where she most excels.

I guess it's impossible to know for sure what would happen in a real fight (you are both restricted under any rule-set that you go with) - but your session will give you a very good data point anyway, regardless of the specific rules.
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  #119  
Old 03-Aug-20, 20:29
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Yeah I've thought a lot about that too and totally agree. I was actually wondering earlier today if Dez would be willing to punch/kick me (w/MMA gloves) during our match so I could get the full effect. Obviously I wouldn't be punching/kicking her, but just trying to defend.

I'll get flamed for this, but honestly I've always had such a hard time imagining a woman being able to hurt me with strikes. Strength and grappling aside, women's fists and forearms and bones are just so tiny that I have a hard time seeing them doing any real damage. I mean, I guess if she smashed me in the face several times I might get some cuts and bruises, but I can't imagine being knocked out or getting a concussion from a woman's strikes.

I think it would probably go more like this

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  #120  
Old 03-Aug-20, 20:38
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Default Re: Dez Desire vs Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I can't imagine being knocked out or getting a concussion from a woman's strikes.
Haha! I get what you mean though. There'd be some exceptions for me (e.g. Amanda Nunes) but, in most cases, I'd much rather be punched by a woman than by a man.
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