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Old 03-Feb-21, 16:42
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

I would like to discuss in a serious/objective matter about this controversial subject that is often brought up when talking about strong women, often by insecure guys who basically claim that every single woman who is even remotely muscular and lift more than 100 lbs must necessary be on steroids.

Personally I am completely ignorant about weightlifting, strenght training, PEDs etc....since I have never went to the gym, therefore I can't have an informed opinion on the matter and I have no idea what the truth is.

That's why I'm asking guys who are competent and knowledgeable about the subject to share their opinion.

For example, it's possible for a natural woman to become like this?



What about like this?



This?


Or this?


And this?


Mind you, I'm not asking if those specific women are on PED's or not, that's not what I care about.
What I'm asking is if you believe it's potentially possible for natural women to reach a similar physique or if it's outright impossible.
And if it's possible, what percentage of women do you believe have such potential?
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Old 03-Feb-21, 18:22
T85 T85 is offline
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

Sarah Backman is a very very strong women who seems natural indeed, unfortunate she does only do armwrestling i believe.
And i also think that for the average Jou it's not a very good idea to try this with her she just might break yours with ease without the intention to do so...
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Old 07-Feb-21, 15:49
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Mind you, I'm not asking if those specific women are on PED's or not, that's not what I care about.
What I'm asking is if you believe it's potentially possible for natural women to reach a similar physique or if it's outright impossible.
And if it's possible, what percentage of women do you believe have such potential?
Is it possible? Yes.

...But as you allude, is it possible for every woman? No.

Genetics and physical appearance swing wildly from person to person. Even in the same sport.

Look at MMA fighters like Tecia Torres and Rose Namajunas who are even in the same weight class.

Torres obviously has much better genetics for bodybuilding and musculature - peaky biceps, full muscle bellies, less body fat (thinner skin). Rose meanwhile is more slight and spindly with a taller, narrower frame.






If you check out natural women's bodybuilding competitions and compare them to untested federations (i.e. Alina Popa, Iris Kyle, etc) you can clearly see a big difference in terms of sheer muscle mass.

Also, some women are simply more genetically blessed for musculature than some men. There is a lot more at play than just testosterone levels.

Compare Tennis players like Serena Williams, Sam Stosur to skinny Roger Federer.








A tell-tale sign of steroids is rapid physique changes. All these women have been ripped and muscular their whole careers going back to when they were teenagers. When Serena was 16 she already had bulging biceps and boulders for shoulders.

Compare that to someone like Sydney Thunder who seems to blow up and deflate like a balloon in a short period of time. Clear signs of utilising steroid cycles.

Early pic. A few years of natty training: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Steroids: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Recent, after steroids: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
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Old 07-Feb-21, 20:08
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Also, some women are simply more genetically blessed for musculature than some men. There is a lot more at play than just testosterone levels.
Since I'm pretty clueless about the subject, can I ask you what are the other genetic factors at play that allow some women to be stronger or more muscular than men?
It would be interesting to know, even just to shut up all the people that say it's not possible for a natural woman to became strong or muscular because "they have 10-15 times less testosterone than us".
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Old 07-Feb-21, 23:38
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Since I'm pretty clueless about the subject, can I ask you what are the other genetic factors at play that allow some women to be stronger or more muscular than men?
It would be interesting to know, even just to shut up all the people that say it's not possible for a natural woman to became strong or muscular because "they have 10-15 times less testosterone than us".
Testosterone is certainly a factor, but it depends very much if you're sensitive to it in the right way for building muscle. It's the same issue men might have with hair loss and beard growth. It's associated with testosterone production, but you have to be genetically sensitive to it in the right way to have a good beard. I'm practically an ape below the neck, nothing wrong with my testosterone levels (had them tested) but my beard is pretty patchy and sparse on one side of my face/cheeks. What gives?

There are many stories where two guys start lifting weights, say Mike and Steve, yet despite them being statistical equals on paper - similar height, weight, age, diet, training programming, etc, one makes much better progress than the other. Say, after a year, Mike can deadlift 50lbs more than struggling Steve and is looking more muscular. Steve is doing everything right, but gets worried his testosterone is low. When he gets checked out finds he is fine, perhaps even a little higher than Mike, but is still making less progress in the gym. He is simply a lower responder or needs to train in a way that's more conducive for his genetics to respond to. Some respond better to heavy weight, low reps, some to high reps and moderate weight.

Other genetic factors include androgen receptors, autocrine function, myostatin, growth hormone, IGF-1, and other genetic factors might not be ideal or sensitive in the right way to building muscle/strength, thus you get low-responders or even non-responders among both men and women. Once again it is a bell curve that overlaps as with height.

Myostatin controls how much muscle we can develop. The more of this your body produces, the more you're held back. There have been experiments on animals to remove this (myostatin deficiency) and you can observe the results.

How much muscle fibre you're born with is also very influential. As a general rule, you cannot add fibre just as you cannot add bone and grow beyond your genetic potential. You can just develop what you have. Even when young, you're limited by your genetic potential. A little Indian or Yemeni boy with a 4'11 mother and 5'1 father is unlikely to grow up to be a 7ft NBA player! This is also why calves and forearms can be troublesome for many as they just don't have the fibre there to develop whereas some do...

When it comes to strength, I have given examples of men who dedicate their lives to strength and olympic lifting. They might be studs in their own right and good enough to represent their country, but still cannot beat elite female gold medal winners.

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Strength is more about the central nervous system's ability to produce force. You need the right genetics to have a high ceiling of potential. That's also why a 60lbs female chimp can be stronger and exert more pulling force (deadlifting) than a 180bs human male. Because chimps have a central nervous system better geared towards producing force.
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Old 09-Feb-21, 02:20
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

I found funny, that people think, bigger the muscle stronger the girl! Thats NOT the truth, look down!

Example:

very strong slim girl [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

normaly looking very strong chinese girl! [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Probably the most of fitness girls could move those weights!

And if you want a real strong woman, look at that! Even Amazonka woult NEVER have the chance to beat here wiegthlifting!

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Old 11-Feb-21, 11:28
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

Impressive natty physique on Olympic Canoeist Lisa Carrington. Hard work, dedication and good genetics.
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Old 11-Feb-21, 18:47
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

IMO anyone who competes in the Olympics is "more or less" natty.

Sure, they all push the limits of supplemental and medicinal use for performance and recovery. But drug testing is very sophisticated today to the point where, for many, the risk isn't worth the reward. Especially when they can retain blood/urine samples until testing is even more advanced and then retrospectively shame and ban athletes for PED use.

One thing I forgot to add is that when you utilise steroids and spike testosterone levels, you need to do so in a big way to have visible results. I've used DHEA that Lyoto Machida was banned from the UFC for using. It's an over the counter supplement and honestly has next to no effects. Jon Jones was banned when they found a picogram of turinabol in his system. A picogram is a trillionth of a gram. That amount is not going to have an effect on performance or appearance.

It's the same with men that get prescribed TRT / HRT (testosterone replacement therapy. The aim of the treatment is just to bring them up to a "normal" level, not to give amazing results in muscle composition. You need much higher dosages for that. Doses that simply wouldn't get through today's drug testing. Governing bodies like WADA and USADA have tightened the belts immensely over the past 10 or so years.
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Old 12-Feb-21, 01:22
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

Can someone talk about "designer steroids?" I heard about them years ago, that they were (virtually?) indetectable, because they mimic a person's natural hormones. An athlete could expect to shell out $100,000 per year for the regimen (at the time) so it wasn't for the casual athlete.
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Old 17-Feb-21, 04:45
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Default Re: How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stymie [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Can someone talk about "designer steroids?" I heard about them years ago, that they were (virtually?) indetectable, because they mimic a person's natural hormones. An athlete could expect to shell out $100,000 per year for the regimen (at the time) so it wasn't for the casual athlete.
Does not seem likely.

You can find traces of it in the blood.
Also it has to with level of your hormones.
So if you use a substance that forces your body to make more you get above that level.
If you inject it into your body you also get above that level.

Personally I find it utterly disgusting that people acuse athletes of using roids without any evidence and just because they have a sixpack and have dedicated their life to training.

Perhaps people should sit less on the couch and do some training themselves instead of making accussations against men and women who actually put in the work.
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