When the Boys Cry

[tomjui]

Originally Posted by misterguy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

This article, titled "Making the Boys Cry" starts to accurately describe why this happens halfway down pg. 14.

This article is actually really insightful.

I like how context dependency is being applied to traits associated with gender.

Definitely worth reading. Thanks!

[KillerCrushes]

Originally Posted by bigeric [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Your last paragraph and most of the 3rd was well said, but your opening lines were horrible.

Your first line is embarrassing, but sadly for you it gets worse from there.

"If you are in the business of raising boys that are that weak, you should probably not be in the business of raising boys"...are you kidding me? I didn't know parents these days were running stud farms for raising boys? Apparently, I missed the memo somewhere in between crazy and totally insane. Furthermore, why do you consider a boy weak because he lost to a girl? Did you consider the fact that maybe she is stronger or more developed? I wonder what the women who work for you think about that attitude? I'd be careful if I were you because they might wind up working elsewhere.

Lastly, your example of a 245lb man boxing against a 7 year old girl at 70lbs is the most asinine thing that I have ever read.

Stick to producing and leave the public relations to someone else.

Given your demonstrated lack of reading comprehension, I'm not sure why I'd waste my time replying other than to say....well, that.

[stymie]

Originally Posted by cashley216 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

There was a case a few years ago of high-school boy who won his league championship one year, then lost it to a girl the next and quit wrestling. He ultimately returned and also dated the girl. I don’t know what happened to that relationship, but if they continued to wrestle competitively, the odds were that he’d become better than her.

If you're talking about the story on ABC's 20/20 newsmagazine, I remember that, it was many years ago actually, maybe as long ago as the late 90's. On a side note, I think another issue will be taking center stage in the not too distant future:
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[IgorWittmann]

Originally Posted by cashley216 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

I’m familiar mainly with high school wrestling. There are no overall statistics. What can be said is that it’s not uncommon for a girl to do pretty well in competition with boys, to the point of winning league tournaments, say, and going on to the state meet with many more wins than losses. The girls are never the absolute best. They can’t beat the guys who, say, get college scholarships to wrestle. But some can beat the average, trained, experienced, serious wrestler.
Generally, girls have more success in the lower weights. The male and female bodies differ less at those weights than higher. And some of the boys at those weights in high school haven’t really hit puberty. Puberty does much more to improve the performance of boys than girls.
Generally the girls have less success against boys as they progress from pre-high school – where there is no male advantage at all -- to high school and beyond.
There was a case a few years ago of high-school boy who won his league championship one year, then lost it to a girl the next and quit wrestling. He ultimately returned and also dated the girl. I don’t know what happened to that relationship, but if they continued to wrestle competitively, the odds were that he’d become better than her.

It seems fair to me, so a big part of these wins happens in the early ages of HS Wrestling? And you're saying that in the tournaments you had watched, the girls had more wins than losses?
I think the most common reactions for these guys that lose to girls, is to quit or feeling frustration for quite some days, specially losing being totally dominated.
Also, the difference on the physical strength levels begins to being higher from the past of puberty, might say... from 15-16 years until becoming older.

[KillerCrushes]

Originally Posted by G-Force [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Sooooo...I shouldn't be in the business of raising boys if they can't handle getting beaten by a girl? Ummmm, ok. Nice inflammatory opener btw. Most boys have fragile underdeveloped egos but I'm sure you can break them of that. Again, it's not "fair" if it's a no win situation. Also, who decides what's fair? If a girl earns a starting spot on the boys basketball team then she displaced some boy who didn't make it. So to be 'fair", maybe that same boy can try out for the girls team and displace one of the girls that would have made it otherwise? Perhaps it's been way too long since you were in school and you've forgotten how harsh kids can be. Kids have to LIVE at school. If some kids at school tauntingly post a facebook video of your son getting his ass kicked by a girl during a public sporting event I'm sure it's no problem right? I'm sure he'll understand since you've raised him to not be "weak". Also, I never said girls shouldn't be allowed to compete, but there is a reason why boys and girls have traditionally been separated and as far as I'm concerned those reasons still stand regardless of the new political climate. If this girl you say is superior in the girls league then let her be superior until a badder ass girl comes along or until she makes it to a bigger league, after-all that's what the boys have to do. How is it going to challenge the rest of the girls to "overcome evolution" if all their superior talent moves over to the boys team? Also, I'm only referring to kids in school sports, I'm not referring to side activities like a Judo club or BJJ school. I'm also not referring to what people do later in life for sport or various training as young or older adults. But, there again, most leagues are still divided by gender, weight, and age at the Pro level or Olympic level aren't they? But hey, you apparently insist that high schools should be the exception and break the rules because of some extraordinarily rare evolutionary instance of a school girl being able to best half the boys in her class.

Thank you for at least understanding the prior statement from me, but...

Respecting the nature of competition builds character, even if one chooses not to compete. In life, yes, there are "no-win situations" and people have to decide whether it's worth the energy for them. For example, going back-and-forth with that other poster would be a no-win situation for me.

Any person - male or female - must choose whether to compete or not. But once the choice to compete is made, then that's what they need to do. With respect to the OP, his question was "Anyone else get a thrill out of watching the humiliated boys cry?" There's a certain cruelty there that I cannot abide, but I'm speaking as an adult male who has watched way too much mixed wrestling *outside* the genuine (read: sanctioned), competitive sporting realm.

If we're ("we" = society) constantly shielding them from challenges that might upset them if they fail, then we're denying them opportunities to grow.

A male (or female, for that matter) who thinks that *every* 18-year-old boy on the planet is faster than *every* 18-year-old girl simply on the basis of "well, it's boy vs girl" has a flawed mindset...but it isn't something they developed in a vacuum. Likewise, anyone who holds that only 5% of females or 10% of females could surpass males of the same age (we have to adjust for something to get a like vs like comparison and age makes sense to me) is also viewing the world through an extremely limited and limitING scope.

If a 10-year-old boy is beaten in wrestling by a 10-year-old girl of about the same weight, it's really not the end of the world. Maybe he was sick that day, or maybe she's just the better wrestler. And that's OK. It's absolutely OK for boys - and girls - to know, wow, there are girls/women who can defeat boys/men in arenas that our parents and grandparents would consider the birthright of males, speaking male vs female.

Most importantly, there's never harm in losing to a superior opponent. If you think there is, then maybe competition is not for you, because you do not respect its nature. And that's OK, too.

Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Thank you for at least understanding the prior statement from me, but...

Respecting the nature of competition builds character, even if one chooses not to compete. In life, yes, there are "no-win situations" and people have to decide whether it's worth the energy for them. For example, going back-and-forth with that other poster would be a no-win situation for me.

Any person - male or female - must choose whether to compete or not. But once the choice to compete is made, then that's what they need to do. With respect to the OP, his question was "Anyone else get a thrill out of watching the humiliated boys cry?" There's a certain cruelty there that I cannot abide, but I'm speaking as an adult male who has watched way too much mixed wrestling *outside* the genuine (read: sanctioned), competitive sporting realm.

If we're ("we" = society) constantly shielding them from challenges that might upset them if they fail, then we're denying them opportunities to grow.

A male (or female, for that matter) who thinks that *every* 18-year-old boy on the planet is faster than *every* 18-year-old girl simply on the basis of "well, it's boy vs girl" has a flawed mindset...but it isn't something they developed in a vacuum. Likewise, anyone who holds that only 5% of females or 10% of females could surpass males of the same age (we have to adjust for something to get a like vs like comparison and age makes sense to me) is also viewing the world through an extremely limited and limitING scope.

If a 10-year-old boy is beaten in wrestling by a 10-year-old girl of about the same weight, it's really not the end of the world. Maybe he was sick that day, or maybe she's just the better wrestler. And that's OK. It's absolutely OK for boys - and girls - to know, wow, there are girls/women who can defeat boys/men in arenas that our parents and grandparents would consider the birthright of males, speaking male vs female.

Most importantly, there's never harm in losing to a superior opponent. If you think there is, then maybe competition is not for you, because you do not respect its nature. And that's OK, too.

Those are some valid points that I agree with for the most part and we can disagree on others. But, getting back to the original question of whether or not I enjoy seeing boys cry because they were bested by a superior female athlete, no I do not, especially when it happens in school. Now grown men getting their asses handed to them? Sure, no problem, let them cry like babies

[11blockhead62]

Originally Posted by misterguy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

When watching videos or reading about mixed wrestling matches, I love it when the beaten male cries, especially in a public setting like a high school. You can tell they've just been through a traumatic experience, from which their humiliation will leave an indelible mark on their psyche. It's most fun when the male enters the match overconfident thinking he will easily win because he's facing a girl. This article, titled "Making the Boys Cry" starts to accurately describe why this happens halfway down pg. 14. Anyone else get a thrill out of watching the humiliated boys cry?

It's not that I get a thrill out of seeing boys suffer humiliation and I certainly wouldn't want that for anyone in my family but I have to admit I do enjoy the way the girls themselves sometimes react to it. I have personally witnessed matches in which girls who were younger or less experienced than their male opponents understandably went a little nuts following unexpected victories. In the past I have sponsored several female collegiate wrestlers and I have had discussions with them about what it was like to win matches against male opponents. I was a bit surprised to find out that they secretly enjoyed it when the guys remained on the mat in tears after being pinned or even gave up wrestling entirely especially when their perception was that some of those opponents were not taking them seriously and expected to outmuscle them for quick pins. They spoke about sensing the panic in those opponents as the matches progressed in a manner far different from what was expected and the unforgettable moments when the realization comes that they are indeed going to be beat those guys. At times the girls have been begged not to pin them or even cursed at as the end comes. Tell me what girl wouldn't enjoy that and what guy on this forum wouldn't enjoy watching it happen?

[IgorWittmann]

Originally Posted by 11blockhead62 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

It's not that I get a thrill out of seeing boys suffer humiliation and I certainly wouldn't want that for anyone in my family but I have to admit I do enjoy the way the girls themselves sometimes react to it. I have personally witnessed matches in which girls who were younger or less experienced than their male opponents understandably went a little nuts following unexpected victories. In the past I have sponsored several female collegiate wrestlers and I have had discussions with them about what it was like to win matches against male opponents. I was a bit surprised to find out that they secretly enjoyed it when the guys remained on the mat in tears after being pinned or even gave up wrestling entirely especially when their perception was that some of those opponents were not taking them seriously and expected to outmuscle them for quick pins. They spoke about sensing the panic in those opponents as the matches progressed in a manner far different from what was expected and the unforgettable moments when the realization comes that they are indeed going to be beat those guys. At times the girls have been begged not to pin them or even cursed at as the end comes. Tell me what girl wouldn't enjoy that and what guy on this forum wouldn't enjoy watching it happen?

Which's the kind of a thing they say after winning? Which's their age? (of the girls you talk about)
So they are quite sadistic, I would say?

[cashley216]

Originally Posted by IgorWittmann [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

And you're saying that in the tournaments you had watched, the girls had more wins than losses?

No, I'm not saying that. Just saying that some girls compile good won-lost records against boys. And some actually win tournaments.

[jiminy]

Originally Posted by G-Force [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Those are some valid points that I agree with for the most part and we can disagree on others. But, getting back to the original question of whether or not I enjoy seeing boys cry because they were bested by a superior female athlete, no I do not, especially when it happens in school. Now grown men getting their asses handed to them? Sure, no problem, let them cry like babies

While seeing anyone in tears is also not for me, I completely disagree with most of what you've said in this thread. I'm also concerned with your conclusion that it's important to care about boys, but not about men.

IMO, rough and tumble, teasing and even bullying to a certain extent is a part of growing up. You learn the art of give-and-take, standing up for yourself and the ability to take a joke and roll with the proverbial punches of life.

Believe me, a 'grown man' that lived a sheltered, home-schooled, mollycoddled upbringing is going to be far more psychologically damaged by a traumatic event that renders him to tears than if it happened in his childhood/teens.

Kids cry because they feel emotion but lack the maturity to categorise, understand and utilise perception for how they are feeling. The ability to 'deal with it' comes from experience and guidance, not Father Time inevitably granting you that 21+ badge of adulthood.

A child will typically have a support network - parents, teachers, etc, to console them and explain that sometimes in life, we lose and we're the butt of jokes and we feel like shit. It will happen. Talking about it is one thing, but experiencing defeat and actually feeling inadequate, humiliated, shamed, etc, is also necessary at times.

A grown man on the other hand will often have nobody and those around him will expect him to deal with it because he is, well, a grown man. But he can't possibly have mentally developed into a mature adult without these life experiences. To expect it and then have a blasé attitude to their suffering is extremely unfair.