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  #11  
Old 08-Nov-22, 15:57
Aygrol1 Aygrol1 is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I’m a believer that you need 90 days monk mode to see the superpowers.

Stacking nofap with diet, weight training and cardio helps take you to the next level. Really get the most out of it. Cold showers. Reading. Even meditating.

I gave up sugar too.

I was 3 weeks in, on about a 22 day streak and feeling low. Flatlines tend to hit me hard. Suddenly a female co worker says “your eyes are looking bright” …. I thought there and then there must be something to this. I realised my vision had improved too.

Personally I’m of the opinion that semen retention is the key to unlocking the superpowers. There’s a lot about it that’s not recognised by science but I reckon theres something to it.
Brother idk if you're serious or not lol kudos to you for your journey of self-improvement. I guarantee if you still jerked off during your time of working out, cutting out sugar, and meditating, you'd have still gotten the same reaction from that girl
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  #12  
Old 08-Nov-22, 16:34
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by Aygrol1 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'm not very confident in this subject, but I will say one thing I've noticed about NoFap. I think the most powerful thing about NoFap is that it's a "trial" to breaking/forming habits. It usually involves working out and journaling and meditating. All these changes are what makes someone happy, not semen retention. I don't wanna diminsh NoFap because I think it does more good than bad for young men, but it can be carried away to extremes.

Other than NoFap (I'd like to hear more about what you think about it) For me personally, even if I jerked off the day of, if a girl puts her hand on my dick it's gonna get hard. Depending on the circumstances of course, but generally I can still get it up
I do find NoFap a bit too all-or-nothing .. I'm probably 50:50 between your perspective and theirs .. But I think it depends where you're starting from .. I recall I was working too much, not going to the gym, no time for dating, I lapsed into a habit of MW porn morning and night – as stress relief, a quick dopamine hit, etc. And realised my natural libido was on the floor after a while .. I couldn't get hard to anything other than MW porn, and even then it wasn't very satisfying.

That was the first time I did a 30 day abstinence, and that's about what it took for my regular sex drive to start coming back.

Andrew Huberman talks about the spike in testosterone you get after 7 days:



That's interesting, and seems to be a real effect .. I've mentioned to friends that when I do a 7 day abstinence, if there's a girl I like at the gym, around the 7th day she'll noticeably be more interested – randomly smiling at me, being around me more .. And you chase less .. You're more focused on training.

Longer-term abstaining, I think is more about recovering from an unhealthy pattern, sexual exhaustion, PIED, getting normal libido back, etc. and I've no doubt that from a very unhealthy baseline, that can take people a year .. I think with great lifestyle measures and nutrition, you can probably get there quicker.
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  #13  
Old 08-Nov-22, 17:04
qx500 qx500 is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

For guys, see your bartender, for gals, see your manicurist!
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  #14  
Old 08-Nov-22, 17:42
Aygrol1 Aygrol1 is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by Ryan Futuristics [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
That's interesting, and seems to be a real effect .. I've mentioned to friends that when I do a 7 day abstinence, if there's a girl I like at the gym, around the 7th day she'll noticeably be more interested – randomly smiling at me, being around me more .. And you chase less .. You're more focused on training.
Research in this field is still pretty new and I'm very much looking forward to seeing how many things we as a society has gotten wrong about porn and semen retention. I think playing the "pheromone" game has only but so much of an effect on attracting the opposite sex. Many men will believe that NoFap magically makes women like them after abstaining after X amount of days, but I think there are so many other factors to it than just more testosterone = more women. Testosterone has an effect on behavior, yes, but I think success involves more "cognitive" work and than simply cutting out a habit.

I myself do not have an emotional understanding with this topic. Personally, I've hung up my hat on the dating scene and to me, jerking off means nothing because I'm hopeless on meeting someone worthwhile. Perhaps if I had abstained from jerking off to that extent, I'd see a difference myself
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  #15  
Old 08-Nov-22, 22:38
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by Aygrol1 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Research in this field is still pretty new and I'm very much looking forward to seeing how many things we as a society has gotten wrong about porn and semen retention. I think playing the "pheromone" game has only but so much of an effect on attracting the opposite sex. Many men will believe that NoFap magically makes women like them after abstaining after X amount of days, but I think there are so many other factors to it than just more testosterone = more women. Testosterone has an effect on behavior, yes, but I think success involves more "cognitive" work and than simply cutting out a habit.

I myself do not have an emotional understanding with this topic. Personally, I've hung up my hat on the dating scene and to me, jerking off means nothing because I'm hopeless on meeting someone worthwhile. Perhaps if I had abstained from jerking off to that extent, I'd see a difference myself
I've sent WhatsApp messages to friends (in the moment) where I've pondered: I don't know if it's pheromones, behaviour, or women have some sixth sense you've got a full chamber, but it is something that's been strong enough for me to notice.

And the thing with me is, whether I'm abstaining or not, I'm still in the gym 6 days a week, still eating clean – so often, abstaining really is the only variable I'm changing .. I think there's probably an optimal frequency – and I'd guess it's between 1 to 3 times a week, for me .. I also notice higher libido if I'm training legs heavy twice a week.

I'm not dating at the moment .. I've never done apps .. I'm not really looking for anything .. But what I'd say is you want to be in an environment regularly where there are options, and a fresh flow of people .. Like school/college – at the time, I didn't think I did particularly well with girls .. But when I look back, it wasn't that many years, and I must've been meeting a decent option about every 3 months .. I think that's how things work themselves out .. When you're actually attracted to someone, nothing's too much trouble.
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  #16  
Old 12-Nov-22, 16:05
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by Aygrol1 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Brother idk if you're serious or not lol kudos to you for your journey of self-improvement. I guarantee if you still jerked off during your time of working out, cutting out sugar, and meditating, you'd have still gotten the same reaction from that girl
That's why it seems NoFap communities are so choc-full of bro-science.

Science hasn't studied a lot of this stuff in enough depth. There is minimal literature on stuff like the "flatline" or the "chaser effect", or added female attraction, but a lot of people flag up similar experiences.

There are no right or wrong answers, but from this you inevitably get communities of guys simply trying to make sense of it all.

I'm a big believer in stacking and layering the positive elements. Weight training, cardio, healthy diet, cold showers, good time management with time dedicated to reading/studying. It all helps. But NoFap is the engine. I wouldn't feel like doing all that other stuff, rolling out of bed "hung over" from a night of edging & cumming to porn. You hear a lot of talk about "channeling energy" - sexual energy. Waking up with a boner and urges... Harness and channel that energy.

I was a marathon edger even before I discovered porn. I would go to bed early when I was 12/13 so that I could edge. Funnily enough I stumbled into NoFap before it was popular. I remember reading about Boxers abstaining from sex for weeks prior to fights, believing it would give them a physical advantage. I'd do this too prior to running/swimming meets I was involved in as a teenager.

But I think edging is one of the worst things you can do. You're basically bathing the brain in dopamine and chemicals for hours. It just makes addiction worse as well as bringing on a raft of other issues - bad time management, but also possible hormonal imbalances, etc. I think a relapse is worse if you're edging for hours before cumming as opposed to a quick M-O.

But NoFap has become so trendy and mainstream, you've now got people saying it only takes 7 days to "reboot". I can't see how this is true. It has to be people that are not really addicts. Like me to give up alcohol would be easy. I'm a social drinker - a couple of beers at the weekend, BBQs. I can easily go Teetotal and say I'm recovered from drinking... For an addict, you need 90 days monk mode minimum and even then you're going to have demons and make a conscious, mature decision to resist relapsing into the future. I'm the same with gambling. I blew everything in my early 20s and learned there and then complete abstinence is the only way for an addict. I think gambling is getting out of control too. Every time I'm waiting for a YouTube vid to load, I see Ray Winstone threatening you to join a betting site or he'll send the lads round guv'nor. But that is another story. lol.

It may well be healthy to ejaculate at least once every 10 days. That 45% testosterone boost with the health benefits of "cleaning out" the prostate, testes and keeping everything working.

Last edited by jiminy; 12-Nov-22 at 16:10.
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Old 12-Nov-22, 16:58
Aygrol1 Aygrol1 is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There are no right or wrong answers, but from this you inevitably get communities of guys simply trying to make sense of it all.
Do you personally believe women have the same kind of issues or do you think this is mainly and male issue nowadays

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
But NoFap has become so trendy and mainstream, you've now got people saying it only takes 7 days to "reboot". I can't see how this is true. It has to be people that are not really addicts.
It's hard to gauge how addicted someone is or if someone has finally crossed the line into addiction with this kind of thing. It's so easy to just grip it and start jerking, no money, no one to meet, just go.

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It may well be healthy to ejaculate at least once every 10 days. That 45% testosterone boost with the health benefits of "cleaning out" the prostate, testes and keeping everything working.
Even then, do you think ANY exposure to porn is harmful to your psyhe?
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  #18  
Old 12-Nov-22, 23:45
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
But NoFap has become so trendy and mainstream, you've now got people saying it only takes 7 days to "reboot". I can't see how this is true. It has to be people that are not really addicts.

It may well be healthy to ejaculate at least once every 10 days. That 45% testosterone boost with the health benefits of "cleaning out" the prostate, testes and keeping everything working.
Yes – there's no real central authority, so you're going to get a whole lot of subjectivity .. But, there's definitely a crowd-sourced wisdom that comes out of this networked, citizen science .. You have got really large scale (very loose) studies and data going on – unlike Psychology, with tiny studies (or no studies), and huge reproducibility problems.

I would say 7 days reboots me pretty well these days .. I monitor every time I jerk off using a free iPhone app called Manhood .. I also log whether I'm wielding a light sabre or pushing rope .. So I get an idea of what's healthy for me, and even how it relates to training.

But when I was coming off years of jerking off to MW two or three times a day (not excessive, by some standards) it took a good 30 days .. And I think the second time I had to reset, it was probably 30 days again .. I think the stacking is everything – back when it took 30 days, I was lifting 2 or 3 days a week, rather than 5 or 6; I wasn't doing heavy squats; I was at much more of a loose end .. The evidence seems to be that 21 times a month is optimal for reducing risk of prostate issues .. Whether that's also optimal for sexual performance? I think it would be something between 10-20 times a month, with a good lifestyle, and once you'd got out of the addiction, if that takes a longer initial reset.
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Old 13-Nov-22, 17:07
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by Aygrol1 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Do you personally believe women have the same kind of issues or do you think this is mainly and male issue nowadays
It's not something I have looked into, but women certainly have their own issues that are unique to them - all the stuff around menstrual cycles and hormonal health for example.

Because we live in a society that is constantly trying to push this agenda of "equality", I've read people believing there must be some NoFap / semen retention variation for women that is equally as powerful and enlightening.

Personally I don't believe that. The seed that a man carries is unique to the male. A powerful, life energy.

Quote:
Even then, do you think ANY exposure to porn is harmful to your psyhe?
If you've identified that addiction has caused problems in the past and that you are an addict, then "relapsing" is flirting with danger. Like a gambling addict rebuilding his life after financial ruin believing it's okay to have a small bet. You're flirting with falling back into old habits and are not showing mature signs of conquering your demons/addiction. Many recovering addicts will, for that reason, preach the virtues of complete abstinence. And the recovery is very much a long-term commitment. Once an addict, always an addict. Once recovering, always in a state of recovering. The process of recovery is ongoing via complete abstinence and being strong enough to deny your demons.

After a while it's why you see talking about "streaks" can be so detrimental as well. Chronicling a streak so that you can feel proud about how long you lasted this time before relapsing? Instead of that, why not just turn over a new leaf and say "I'm no longer that guy that beats off to porn". No need to count days. Just make it a lifestyle.

Very idealistic and not yet something I have conquered myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Futuristics [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yes – there's no real central authority, so you're going to get a whole lot of subjectivity .. But, there's definitely a crowd-sourced wisdom that comes out of this networked, citizen science .. You have got really large scale (very loose) studies and data going on – unlike Psychology, with tiny studies (or no studies), and huge reproducibility problems.

I would say 7 days reboots me pretty well these days .. I monitor every time I jerk off using a free iPhone app called Manhood .. I also log whether I'm wielding a light sabre or pushing rope .. So I get an idea of what's healthy for me, and even how it relates to training.

But when I was coming off years of jerking off to MW two or three times a day (not excessive, by some standards) it took a good 30 days .. And I think the second time I had to reset, it was probably 30 days again .. I think the stacking is everything – back when it took 30 days, I was lifting 2 or 3 days a week, rather than 5 or 6; I wasn't doing heavy squats; I was at much more of a loose end .. The evidence seems to be that 21 times a month is optimal for reducing risk of prostate issues .. Whether that's also optimal for sexual performance? I think it would be something between 10-20 times a month, with a good lifestyle, and once you'd got out of the addiction, if that takes a longer initial reset.
I think we have to be careful about placing too much emphasis on perceived psychological benefits, because then it runs the risk of becoming a placebo effect.

A lot of people in the NoFap community raving about "more energy" and "feeling great" when they are only on 2-7 day streaks are just experiencing placebo, IMO. And it is often overlooked how much of a powerful tool this can be. Ultimately, everyone has their own issues and if you feel improved, then you have improved. If it's working for you, it's working for you.

The real phenomenon for me is the actual physical, quantifiable changes.

One thing is the flatline. I'll typically go into flatline around day 4-5 and then kind of dip in and out every 7-10 days during a 3 month period. I have only managed a 3 month streak twice, it should be noted.

During flatline, I'm suffering ED. Even with super urges and high libido. It's quite scary to begin with. And I refuse to accept it's PIED as I first started experiencing this as a teenager, doing NoFap without access to porn.
The best explanation I have read involves the build-up of seminal fluid around the prostate, just changing the way thing operate, the body needing time to adapt.

Similar to when I've been on a 7+ day streak and I edge. I get terrible blue balls. But edging daily (with orgasm - I never edge without orgasm) I don't get blue balls. It's like DOMS. You come back hard after a de-load period and you get DOMS.

Another thing is the uptick in female attraction. The woman noted I had bright eyeballs. Funny as this has only been said twice - and on both occasions I had been on a 2+ week streak. But I also note a general uptick. Typically when women make a compliment - "like your shirt", "what's that cologne, it's nice", it's typically because she's simply looking to open communication with you which perhaps wouldn't otherwise be the case.

Women do have heightened senses. More cells in the olfactory bulb giving a better sense of smell, for example. As you've said before, a woman can only get pregnant once every 9-10 months, whereas a man can impregnate hundreds of women in that time period. So it makes sense for her to be picky, and have heightened senses. I'm sure there is something about detecting pheromones and if you're stacking NoFap with good diet, good presentation, optimising hormones and health via exercise and weight training.

I've also noticed getting more out of sleep. That I'll stay asleep for longer. In the past, I've been a terrible sleeper. A very light sleeper. Struggling to stay asleep for more than an hour, just waking up all the time. But on a good streak, I'll stay asleep longer - 4-7 hours at a time. Completely out. Much deeper sleep. And even if I only get 3-4 hours, I'll feel like I got a lot out of it, like I'm not tired for a good portion of the day and those 3-4 hours are comparable to 8-9 hours of poorer, more broken sleep.

One last thing off the top of my head is how my skin gets oiler around 2-3 weeks, I might get some blocked pores, spots and breakouts, but 7 days later, the skin clears up and is smoother, very healthy and vibrant looking.

One theory I read was that when a man is ejaculating daily, the body thinks he is spreading his seed and doing good in life, so no need for more energy, strength, cognitive sharpness. But when he isn't, the body identifies that things need turning up to become more successful in his ability to procreate. That he may need more strength, energy, cognitive ability & focus as well as attractiveness to women... The body uses that seed - life energy within him - to turn things up and take him to a new level.

People think it's gobbledegook but I'm telling you, there's something to it. Semen retention is the closest thing to a magic bullet when it comes to self improvement for men. 90 days monk mode. Just do it.
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  #20  
Old 13-Nov-22, 17:45
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: benefit of psychotherapy

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Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It's not something I have looked into, but women certainly have their own issues that are unique to them - all the stuff around menstrual cycles and hormonal health for example.

Because we live in a society that is constantly trying to push this agenda of "equality", I've read people believing there must be some NoFap / semen retention variation for women that is equally as powerful and enlightening.

Personally I don't believe that. The seed that a man carries is unique to the male. A powerful, life energy.



If you've identified that addiction has caused problems in the past and that you are an addict, then "relapsing" is flirting with danger. Like a gambling addict rebuilding his life after financial ruin believing it's okay to have a small bet. You're flirting with falling back into old habits and are not showing mature signs of conquering your demons/addiction. Many recovering addicts will, for that reason, preach the virtues of complete abstinence. And the recovery is very much a long-term commitment. Once an addict, always an addict. Once recovering, always in a state of recovering. The process of recovery is ongoing via complete abstinence and being strong enough to deny your demons.

After a while it's why you see talking about "streaks" can be so detrimental as well. Chronicling a streak so that you can feel proud about how long you lasted this time before relapsing? Instead of that, why not just turn over a new leaf and say "I'm no longer that guy that beats off to porn". No need to count days. Just make it a lifestyle.

Very idealistic and not yet something I have conquered myself.




I think we have to be careful about placing too much emphasis on perceived psychological benefits, because then it runs the risk of becoming a placebo effect.

A lot of people in the NoFap community raving about "more energy" and "feeling great" when they are only on 2-7 day streaks are just experiencing placebo, IMO. And it is often overlooked how much of a powerful tool this can be. Ultimately, everyone has their own issues and if you feel improved, then you have improved. If it's working for you, it's working for you.

The real phenomenon for me is the actual physical, quantifiable changes.

One thing is the flatline. I'll typically go into flatline around day 4-5 and then kind of dip in and out every 7-10 days during a 3 month period. I have only managed a 3 month streak twice, it should be noted.

During flatline, I'm suffering ED. Even with super urges and high libido. It's quite scary to begin with. And I refuse to accept it's PIED as I first started experiencing this as a teenager, doing NoFap without access to porn.
The best explanation I have read involves the build-up of seminal fluid around the prostate, just changing the way thing operate, the body needing time to adapt.

Similar to when I've been on a 7+ day streak and I edge. I get terrible blue balls. But edging daily (with orgasm - I never edge without orgasm) I don't get blue balls. It's like DOMS. You come back hard after a de-load period and you get DOMS.

Another thing is the uptick in female attraction. The woman noted I had bright eyeballs. Funny as this has only been said twice - and on both occasions I had been on a 2+ week streak. But I also note a general uptick. Typically when women make a compliment - "like your shirt", "what's that cologne, it's nice", it's typically because she's simply looking to open communication with you which perhaps wouldn't otherwise be the case.

Women do have heightened senses. More cells in the olfactory bulb giving a better sense of smell, for example. As you've said before, a woman can only get pregnant once every 9-10 months, whereas a man can impregnate hundreds of women in that time period. So it makes sense for her to be picky, and have heightened senses. I'm sure there is something about detecting pheromones and if you're stacking NoFap with good diet, good presentation, optimising hormones and health via exercise and weight training.

I've also noticed getting more out of sleep. That I'll stay asleep for longer. In the past, I've been a terrible sleeper. A very light sleeper. Struggling to stay asleep for more than an hour, just waking up all the time. But on a good streak, I'll stay asleep longer - 4-7 hours at a time. Completely out. Much deeper sleep. And even if I only get 3-4 hours, I'll feel like I got a lot out of it, like I'm not tired for a good portion of the day and those 3-4 hours are comparable to 8-9 hours of poorer, more broken sleep.

One last thing off the top of my head is how my skin gets oiler around 2-3 weeks, I might get some blocked pores, spots and breakouts, but 7 days later, the skin clears up and is smoother, very healthy and vibrant looking.

One theory I read was that when a man is ejaculating daily, the body thinks he is spreading his seed and doing good in life, so no need for more energy, strength, cognitive sharpness. But when he isn't, the body identifies that things need turning up to become more successful in his ability to procreate. That he may need more strength, energy, cognitive ability & focus as well as attractiveness to women... The body uses that seed - life energy within him - to turn things up and take him to a new level.

People think it's gobbledegook but I'm telling you, there's something to it. Semen retention is the closest thing to a magic bullet when it comes to self improvement for men. 90 days monk mode. Just do it.
I think one big difference for women is they don't *really* have to perform .. My long-term ex had a world of issues (as a lot of girls do) and so long as a guy works within their parameters, they can use him as a sex toy and rely on their own thoughts to get themselves there.

Much more difficult for a guy .. This same ex who I found very boring and passive in bed has literally been on the phone crying to me about how bad the sex in her current relationship is – but the unfair thing is she's expecting much more from the guy she's with than she's giving .. She wants to know the guy's in the moment – not fantasising about something else .. She judges the guy badly if he can't stay hard or come – because deep down it makes her judge herself.

I think a lot of what you're describing with semen retention sounds like classic hormones .. The oily skin is usually a sign of higher T .. The way our hormones work can be very different .. The drop-off in free Testosterone in middle age is highly variable – may be much more to do with obesity, drugs and chronic illness than age .. There's a whole world of lifestyle factors.

I'd say these graphs of T levels on abstinence describe the boost I feel from 5-7 days in:



For me, the flatline was more characteristic of when I was abstaining off a higher level of 'addiction' .. The flatline, I think, is the DOMS – a sign of sexual exhaustion .. Or it could be low T as a co-factor – a HUGE number of people, all ages, these days seem to have low T on blood tests .. There's this connection with phthalates in plastic, and all sorts of endocrine disruptors in personal care products, soaps, fragrances, etc.

Friends younger than me get their bloods done, and the doctors want them to have testosterone injections .. Guy in his early 20s had the same result recently .. I cut exposure to synthetics/chemicals as much as possible – try and avoid roundup (so eat wholewheat as much as possible, but always organic) .. And working up to squatting heavy, twice a week, has given me better abs than I had at 19 .. I think it's a natural testosterone effect.

People are getting this stuff right .. There's a good side to the Internet .. But yeah, I think the connection between abstinence, rebooting and 'superpowers' is definitely multifactoral .. The improved sleep sounds typical of having higher HGH – I think I recall a boost in HGH after a week or two abstinence?
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