Matches That Never Happened - But you Wish They Did

[AKgrappler]

The match that I wish would have happened that never did, was Nancy Skarvan vs Donna Land. They both were active at Judell’s old California Amazon . But, by the time Donna had the skills to be competitive with Nancy, Nancy career there had faded.
Nancy probably would have won, but you never know. It would have been a great match in any case.

[fvsfforever]

Joan Wise vs. Judell Dulong
Beatrice Goffin vs. Ana Leal
Marie Laure vs. Maggie Jennings
Marie Laure vs. Ana Leal
Hana (prime) vs. Luzia (prime)

Ana Leal was an interesting figure I'd like to know more about. APL is big, but moved from their early days as competitive, to something much more worked.

Would have liked her insight on her matches and how competitive they were.

These threads only work in the Pioneers as BJJ not a thing.

[Ian270446]

Originally Posted by AKgrappler [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

The match that I wish would have happened that never did, was Nancy Skarvan vs Donna Land. They both were active at Judell’s old California Amazon . But, by the time Donna had the skills to be competitive with Nancy, Nancy career there had faded.
Nancy probably would have won, but you never know. It would have been a great match in any case.

Interesting topic that you raise AK. Many years ago, I suspect in the old Sherry Yahoo group, there was a discussion on a similar theme about who people thought were the top 5 all time at the Californian Amazon. It was similar in that Nancy and Donna came into the discussion. I have copied my contribution to that old discussion below.

In my view there is no doubt that Treena deserves the top ranking. After losses in her first 2 matches, to Karen and Laurie respectively, she had an unbroken streak of 11 wins, including against some of the best (Nancy, Cindy, Sheryl, etc.). Had she continued, it was hard to see any of the then current group at The Amazon getting the better of her. Judell said to me on one occasion that she thought Treena was the best ever, and Judell was well qualified to judge.

Selecting No 2 is a bit more difficult. To me there are 2 contenders - Nancy and Donna. Unfortunately Nancy had quit The Amazon over the "Treena affair" before Donna arrived on the scene, so they never got to take each other on. Certainly Nancy had a lot more experience than Donna, and a very good record of 36 matches, 30 wins (83%), and 6 losses. Apart from a couple of losses early in her career, and when she was very young, the only ones to beat her were Judell and Treena. By comparison, Donna only had 7 matches, but a perfect winning record. Her wins over Cindy, Lisa and Karen in her first 3 matches was an impressive start, although it must be said after that she fought somewhat lesser opposition. My view is that if Nancy and Donna had fought when Donna first arrived at The Amazon, Nancy probably would have won because of her greater experience. However, once Donna had gained some experience, then I think she would have prevailed because: 1) she was about the only girl who could match Nancy in strength, 2) She would have worn Nancy down in a long match, and 3) her stubbornness about submitting would have frustrated Nancy. For those reasons, Donna gets my vote for No 2.

Having slotted Donna in at No 2, then Nancy has to be at No 3.

Nos 4 and 5 become a bit more difficult. Much as Karen was a very regular competitor, and a favorite of a lot of people, her record of only a 60% success rate over 31 matches does not justify a ranking in the top 5. If you add Karen's 18 boxing matches, her total of 49 fights at The Amazon was far more than any other girl.

Similarly I don't think Sheryl's record (3 matches, 1 win and 2 losses) justifies her being included in the top 5, although if she had had a lot more matches I believe her record would eventually have justified a top 5 spot. That leaves 2 obvious contenders, namely:

Cindy - 16 matches, 11 wins, 5 losses - a 69% winning record.
Laurie - 17 matches, 11 wins, 6 losses - a 65% winning record.

Based on her slightly better winning percentage, and the fact she had a win over her cousin, I give the No 4 position to Cindy, with Laurie slotted in at No 5.

There are some other girls that have not really been mentioned, who probably deserve serious consideration as well. Lisa Dunwell had a 67% winning record with 8 wins from 12 matches, and while she did not fight all the top girls (although she did fight Nancy and Donna) it is fairly impressive. Another factor which needs to be kept in mind is that Treena, Cindy and Laurie, all at 145 to 150 pounds, had a considerably size advantage over a lot of the other girls, which obviously helped their cause, and some of the smaller girls (like Ursula) could never be expected to be competitive against them.