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  #11  
Old 22-Jul-19, 05:51
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rated G [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Hi, itís gone, just like that. Mike gave about 2 hours notice, then shut it down. I was a moderator there but got no advance notice; none of us did.
Sorry about the short notice, but I think it was put out several months ahead of the closure that the boards were going away.

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Originally Posted by Rated G [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yes, he did promise that heíd migrate all that old content, didnít he? My impression is that he was just going to preserve the old site as an archive site. But I guess not, and so far, his team has proven to be anything but tech savvy.
At one time in the project's infancy, we thought we would be able to maintain the original sites as-is, relocating everything to the new server. As we plodded through the development process, we realized that simply cloning over the old thing wasn't going to work and wasn't what we wanted.

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Originally Posted by arcang7 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yeah, Mike did a really shitty job communicating with members for the past year. It was honestly super scummy of him to shut the boards on that short of notice.

Also, 99% of the material from the old herbiceps isn't up on the new site, and there's no hint as to when it will be, so if you were a paying member, you basically had no warning to download any favorite clips or pics before the site shut. I doubt all those old archives will ever go up either, because they were housed on a completely different server, he switched webhosts for the new site, which means they'd all have to be manually re-uploaded and labeled, and that could take months or years.

I really lost of ton of respect for him over it. He promised a lot a delivered not very much so far.
I understand your perspective, but taking all the available information into consideration, we felt that a large majority of members and past members wanted the new platform completed, period, end of story. There was really nothing to communicate, because we didn't have it done.

A lot of the original site content doesn't really fit HB anymore, so we're going to bring back the best stuff from our favorite models. When you look at the total number of pics and clips on all our old properties, it would be a losing proposition to try to remaster all that material for inclusion on the new platform.

Mike has posted 3-4 podcasts in the past week, so he's making up for the communication you missed out on the past year.

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Originally Posted by arcang7 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yeah he did. In fact, if memory serves, the big promises made about Herbiceps+ were that you'd have access to all the old content plus great new stuff. That the photo and video quality would be improved (Which it isn't. In fact the photo quality may actually be slightly worse on the new site from the galleries I've checked out), and that it would be much easier to navigate (which also isn't the case as you can't even organize the models by name).

I honestly can't figure out what the big deal about was, as it basically seems to be the same site design as Herbicepscam. I'm kind of confused as to why he didn't just add more content to Herbicepscam rather than spending so much time on a new site.
We had an idea and a plan and then the plan changed, because the idea changed. I can understand the new platform taking some getting used to, and yes, there are people who preferred the old "infinity list" style. But to say that the photo and video quality are not as good as what was offered before? You're a consumer, so you're perfectly entitled to feel as you will, but if you don't think today's content is better than what we were producing 5-10-15 years ago, I don't have any response for that other than to say I respectfully disagree.

On the new platform, you can sort the models list by most recent updates, newest model added, or alphabetically by first name. Models are being added every week.

We have to make the right decisions for the business and with all the new features - including playlists, commenting, rating, and favorites - we're really excited about this next evolution of HB.

I know the OP was about the HB forums, but I have to take a brief moment to bring attention to the volume of FREE content now available on HB. Previously, one had to be a member to see almost everything. Now, almost every single gallery is FREE. And I'm on Page 1 of the "recent" sort of the "ALL VIDEOS" section and, of the 60 videos currently visible on that page, 36 are FREE. You don't even have to be logged in as a Free member to view them. You can view them as a surfer. (you should visit quickly, though, because some of them should probably be members-only ) It's the industry's best value, bar none.

Thanks for all the feedback, everyone. If there's a way to create social space that fits into the new platform and integrates with our content delivery mission, then we'll be open to considering it. For now, we encourage everyone to use the Comments sections or to email us directly ([email protected]) with any and all questions, thoughts, concerns, criticisms, etc.
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  #12  
Old 22-Jul-19, 09:11
arcang7 arcang7 is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
We had an idea and a plan and then the plan changed, because the idea changed. I can understand the new platform taking some getting used to, and yes, there are people who preferred the old "infinity list" style. But to say that the photo and video quality are not as good as what was offered before? You're a consumer, so you're perfectly entitled to feel as you will, but if you don't think today's content is better than what we were producing 5-10-15 years ago, I don't have any response for that other than to say I respectfully disagree.
The idea changed, yes. And as I stated above, you didn't really communicate that to your members, as evidenced by three people here being completely confused by it, and another person commenting about it as the top comment on one of those recent podcasts you talked about.

You're correct about the sorting. I noticed it now, and it's fine.

As for the photo quality -- I stand by what I said. The photos on the new site are not any higher resolution than the photos posted on the old Herbiceps in the last three years, they're roughly the same 664x1024 size as the photos from the old site. And the non-VOD videos are mostly available in 1080p max, which is the same as the old site. Of course the quality is better than it was in 2005. My current cellphone shoots 4K video, which is better than anything available in 2005, so I'd hope the quality has improved since then. What I meant is that the new site doesn't have higher quality videos as of yet than the old one, especially when you factor in that 90% of the armwrestling, lift and carry, and wrestling clips now go to VOD, when they used to be included in membership.

I totally get it. The new site makes it easier to monetize this stuff and to sell a single clip for as much as a monthly membership used to go for, but it's patronizing to pretend this new site did the members any favors. It's a cash grab. It's your right to charge what you want for the product, it's a free market. But it's insulting to pretend you did this for us, and not for the bottom line.
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  #13  
Old 22-Jul-19, 14:06
RoadRunner RoadRunner is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

Arcang 7 wrote in Comment #12: "...as evidenced by three people here being completely confused....." Yeah, that's a real "tidal wave" of opinion.

"...but it's patronizing to pretend this new site did the members any favors...." Maybe you speak just for yourself, Arcang7, OK? I was a paying member of Her Biceps since the early 2000s. I just renewed for a year, at a cheaper monthly rate than I was paying.

"Yeah, Mike did a real shitty job communicating with members for the past year...." Really? As I recall, there were a lot of complaints on the old Forums. I also recall that the large majority of those complaints came from maybe 9-10 people, some of whom claimed to be speaking "for everybody."

As a long time subscriber, I'm prepared to give the new site a chance to be successful. I say that realizing that I will miss some of the older content. But, I also realize that the old HB site was built on a late 1990s vintage platform originated by Diana the Valkyrie, whoever that is, in England.

Last edited by RoadRunner; 22-Jul-19 at 14:12.
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  #14  
Old 22-Jul-19, 17:10
Rated G Rated G is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRunner [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Arcang 7 wrote in Comment #12: "...as evidenced by three people here being completely confused....." Yeah, that's a real "tidal wave" of opinion.

"...but it's patronizing to pretend this new site did the members any favors...." Maybe you speak just for yourself, Arcang7, OK? I was a paying member of Her Biceps since the early 2000s. I just renewed for a year, at a cheaper monthly rate than I was paying.

"Yeah, Mike did a real shitty job communicating with members for the past year...." Really? As I recall, there were a lot of complaints on the old Forums. I also recall that the large majority of those complaints came from maybe 9-10 people, some of whom claimed to be speaking "for everybody."

As a long time subscriber, I'm prepared to give the new site a chance to be successful. I say that realizing that I will miss some of the older content. But, I also realize that the old HB site was built on a late 1990s vintage platform originated by Diana the Valkyrie, whoever that is, in England.
Road Runner, this is not really about the new site, itís more about the way the old one was cast aside. We should all be willing to see if the new site and grow and gestate into something nice, just like Fight Pulse has. I looked through a few of the free clips and Tr - - I mean Killer Crushes is right, thereís better free content now than on the old site. But make no mistake about, this is all about making more money. The intent is to lure more people into the VOD. So just say that! Donít try to con people by pumping up marginal free improvements that may or may not last, just like it did on the old site. Just say that youíre repackaging the site to facilitate subscribers awareness, and drive more people to the paid content. People understand that.

But Road Runner, I ask you this. Were there any clips that you wish you downloaded and saved before the site blew up? Any pictures? Most of that stuff is gone. I donít have much confidence that theyíll repackage much of it, they had a hard enough time just uploading the current inventory. There were yearly backlogs. And BTW, what theyíre repackaging, youíre buying again. Maybe you downloaded everything; lots of members didnít.

And there were a lot of posters on the message boards that lost the chance to make personal contacts so that they could communicate with each other on new forums. Iím trying to retrieve some of that contact info myself. Iím not that upset about the loss of the Message Board itself; it was obvious that Mike didnít value the site feedback enough. I am mildly irritated that he didnít take the time to thank his moderators for their efforts in keeping thing clean over the last decade, but so be it.

The bottom line is, an announcement of the site closing should have been made, and a closing date like say, July 31 should have been set. That would have given all members the opportunity to wrap up whatever investments they had with the old site. This whole process, really over the last year, was poorly handled.
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  #15  
Old 22-Jul-19, 21:02
RoadRunner RoadRunner is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

Rated G wrote: "Were there any clips that you wish you downloaded and saved before the site blew up? Any pictures?"

Answer is no. For about 16 years of paying membership with Her Biceps, I find 17 clips and 7 pictures in various parts of my hard drive. That's all I downloaded and kept. I expect that some of the more recent materials; in the past two years; will eventually find its way to the new site, if not already there.

"this is all about making more money....." Hopefully you don't have a problem with that? If so, allow me to politely say that perhaps you're living in the wrong country.

Could the old site closing have been handled better? Perhaps. But it's not an issue I am losing sleep over.
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  #16  
Old 23-Jul-19, 06:13
arcang7 arcang7 is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadRunner [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Rated G wrote: "Were there any clips that you wish you downloaded and saved before the site blew up? Any pictures?"

Answer is no. For about 16 years of paying membership with Her Biceps, I find 17 clips and 7 pictures in various parts of my hard drive. That's all I downloaded and kept. I expect that some of the more recent materials; in the past two years; will eventually find its way to the new site, if not already there.

"this is all about making more money....." Hopefully you don't have a problem with that? If so, allow me to politely say that perhaps you're living in the wrong country.

Could the old site closing have been handled better? Perhaps. But it's not an issue I am losing sleep over.
"If you don't like greedy business practices, leave America." Sigh.

As for your points, if you were the average user, saving only 17 clips in 16 years, they wouldn't be doing VOD, which basically exists because people want to own specific clips.

Also the new site's membership rates are higher than the old site's. Its now $99 for a yearly membership. I paid $89 for my final year at the old site. So no, it's not cheaper, unless you somehow got a discounted rate.
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  #17  
Old 23-Jul-19, 12:36
RoadRunner RoadRunner is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

@[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]: you think it's greedy business practices. I don't. So, we'll need to agree to disagree.

Who knows that an "average user" would have been at the old Her Biceps site. A little late now to be speculating about same, I'd think. I belonged to sites besides Her Biceps in recent years. I probably have around 40 saved clips from those other sites. Part of my personal philosophy has been having the ability to view clips and pictures on somebody else's servers instead of cluttering up my hard drive. Will I buy VOD? I don't know as I prefer my clips at maybe 2 minutes, and less.

I was being billed quarterly under the old billing system used by Her Biceps. It worked out to about $10 per month ($29.95). Now I'm paying a bit over $8 per month.
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  #18  
Old 23-Jul-19, 15:02
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KillerCrushes KillerCrushes is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

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Originally Posted by arcang7 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Also the new site's membership rates are higher than the old site's. Its now $99 for a yearly membership. I paid $89 for my final year at the old site. So no, it's not cheaper, unless you somehow got a discounted rate.
When Mike launched HB back in 2002, I think a membership was just $11.95. (it may have been a little less for a short period). Then it went to $13.95 (don't remember the year). So, in 17 years, there was effectively one price increase and, at $13.95, HB was below market price.

During that time, production costs went WAY up. Travel expenses have almost tripled since 2002. That's just the nature of life in any business, yet the HB price remained constant.

When you're in the media sales business, piracy is a fact of life. I can tell you - by the numbers - that piracy today is at least than 500 times greater than it was in 2002. It's more than 200x greater than it was in 2010! We have actual data on this reality and that doesn't fully factor all the piracy we *don't* know about.

That said, if you still have an active $89 membership, we will honor that price for a renewal. Just email [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] and we'll credit you the $10 back on your new registration.

Added after 10 minutes:

Disclosure: I love my job, but I go to work every day in order to make money. I absolutely want our customers to enjoy themselves on our sites, but like most professionals in whatever line of work they're in, I am here to make money. If a business isn't profitable, there will be no jobs for the people who work there.

And obviously, customers create jobs, so it's up to us to make sure that we're serving our customers as best we can and that includes operating the business in a way that allows us to CONTINUE the business.
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Last edited by KillerCrushes; 23-Jul-19 at 15:07.
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  #19  
Old 23-Jul-19, 18:12
Rated G Rated G is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

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Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Disclosure: I love my job, but I go to work every day in order to make money. I absolutely want our customers to enjoy themselves on our sites, but like most professionals in whatever line of work they're in, I am here to make money. If a business isn't profitable, there will be no jobs for the people who work there.

And obviously, customers create jobs, so it's up to us to make sure that we're serving our customers as best we can and that includes operating the business in a way that allows us to CONTINUE the business.
Yes, obviously. And that’s exactly what I wanted Mike to say. It’s the most sensible business statement. Instead I’m reading all about how he’s doing this for the members, there’s more free content, better quality, etc. I remember Mike saying how he’s was going to offer a bunch of free content back in 2002 and 2003. That only lasted until he saw it wasn’t a sustainable business practice. And it’ll be that way now too, which you already hinted at.

The content is the same, and the presentation is about the same too. The organization is different, and it will make it easier to see what you’re offering on VOD. That’s the end game. Membership was pretty happy with the old site (so long as there were updates) and this new format is not going to appreciably increase memberships. This is a finite and niche market. You can increase VOD and maybe webcam traffic though, and that’s fine. So just say that. No talking about this is so much better for us; it’s 2019 and we’re all mostly “smart marks.”

And I just don’t understand the big rush to obliterate the old site. You could have made the announcement for two weeks hence, give folks a chance to download stuff they let slide, and say their goodbyes or exchange contacts. But that was probably Mike’s call, not yours, and he’s not talking.

Which is why I want to thank you. You haven’t been a scholar, but you’ve been a gentleman and very transparent to the best of your ability through this whole process. And a fine spokesman; your team is lucky to have you.
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  #20  
Old 23-Jul-19, 21:03
arcang7 arcang7 is offline
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Default Re: What happened to HerBiceps forum?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCrushes [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
When Mike launched HB back in 2002, I think a membership was just $11.95. (it may have been a little less for a short period). Then it went to $13.95 (don't remember the year). So, in 17 years, there was effectively one price increase and, at $13.95, HB was below market price.

During that time, production costs went WAY up. Travel expenses have almost tripled since 2002. That's just the nature of life in any business, yet the HB price remained constant.

When you're in the media sales business, piracy is a fact of life. I can tell you - by the numbers - that piracy today is at least than 500 times greater than it was in 2002. It's more than 200x greater than it was in 2010! We have actual data on this reality and that doesn't fully factor all the piracy we *don't* know about.

That said, if you still have an active $89 membership, we will honor that price for a renewal. Just email [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] and we'll credit you the $10 back on your new registration.

Added after 10 minutes:

Disclosure: I love my job, but I go to work every day in order to make money. I absolutely want our customers to enjoy themselves on our sites, but like most professionals in whatever line of work they're in, I am here to make money. If a business isn't profitable, there will be no jobs for the people who work there.

And obviously, customers create jobs, so it's up to us to make sure that we're serving our customers as best we can and that includes operating the business in a way that allows us to CONTINUE the business.
Oh, I fully understand, and honestly, the rate increase makes sense. I was only saying the old rate was lower to counter the argument made by RoadRunner that the new membership rates are cheaper -- which they're not.

And I agree with RatedG that you've been very friendly, and open to explaining things. So thank you for that. I think our frustration was that Mike didn't really do much explaining. And when the decision to close the boards was finalized, literally posted a message saying "hey everyone, boards will shut down in six hours or so, and all the archived material on the old site will be gone too." Which was just ludicrously short notice. Some people didn't even see the message because by the time they came back to the site, it was gone.

That said, what happened happened, and I'm willing to wait and see how the new site develops and give it a chance. I want to see if there really will be regular updates over a couple of months before I commit to being a member again.
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