How strong and muscular can women get without steroids?

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

A lot of girls accused of steroids aren't even that big. Crossfitter Tia Clair Toomey for example is not a big woman, 5'4 128lbs.

But according to some, she must be using steroids because she's beating girls that fail drug tests. Oh, and she has more definition in her muscles than men's Crossfit champ, 194lbs Matt Fraser.

It ain't so much about size but shape. Her body is shaped like one of a steroid user. Her delts are really popping.

[jiminy]

Originally Posted by Tiberius [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

It ain't so much about size but shape. Her body is shaped like one of a steroid user. Her delts are really popping.

"Shape" is more about genetics - same as everyone's face is shaped differently.

Size and sheer mass is obviously a much better indicator of whether drugs have been used.

Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is how the "pump" makes the muscle swell and "pop" during a competition. It makes a huge difference compared to when a person is relaxed and the muscle isn't pumped full of blood and oxygen.

You can compare Crossfit women to pro bodybuilders who openly use steroids and obviously see they look different. People have simply underestimated how much muscle an a genetically gifted woman can develop. Like I said, if Lusita Leers was around today, 90% of guys would be saying she's on steroids. She would also probably look more impressive due to deeper knowledge of muscle building & nutrition today.

Compare Tia Clair in relaxed state vs. muscle pump competition state vs. female bodybuilding steroid user.

[Tiberius]

She is in a different shape altogether on the left. Also how big you will get with steroids depends on the amount and duration you take them too.

[towerworld]

Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

"Shape" is more about genetics - same as everyone's face is shaped differently.

Size and sheer mass is obviously a much better indicator of whether drugs have been used.

Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is how the "pump" makes the muscle swell and "pop" during a competition. It makes a huge difference compared to when a person is relaxed and the muscle isn't pumped full of blood and oxygen.

You can compare Crossfit women to pro bodybuilders who openly use steroids and obviously see they look different. People have simply underestimated how much muscle an a genetically gifted woman can develop. Like I said, if Lusita Leers was around today, 90% of guys would be saying she's on steroids. She would also probably look more impressive due to deeper knowledge of muscle building & nutrition today.

Compare Tia Clair in relaxed state vs. muscle pump competition state vs. female bodybuilding steroid user.

Both are on steroids, the latter having better genetics for muscle building+hgh,synthol ect.
PED’s are ridiculously prevalent, I would wager that every single professional Crossfitter and fitness model(male or female) are on something. Why wouldn’t you when your livelihood relies on your physique?

[mxboxer]

Originally Posted by Tiberius [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

She is in a different shape altogether on the left. Also how big you will get with steroids depends on the amount and duration you take them too.

and the specific kind of steroid.
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

[jiminy]

Originally Posted by towerworld [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Both are on steroids, the latter having better genetics for muscle building+hgh,synthol ect.
PED’s are ridiculously prevalent, I would wager that every single professional Crossfitter and fitness model(male or female) are on something. Why wouldn’t you when your livelihood relies on your physique?

Because there are some pretty serious health risks for starters. Look how young many steroid abusing bodybuilders and pro wrestlers die.

Steroids are also illegal in Crossfit and the Olympics. Tia Clair Toomey competed in the 2016 Olympic games and was subject to the most stringent drug testing.

Like I said before, anti-doping agencies such as WADA, USADA, etc, have tightened the belts immensely over the past decade. Athletes that try to skirt around with low doses of anabolics are much more likely to get caught and are sometimes just unlucky with tainted supplements and processed foods. UFC fighter Jon Jones was caught with a picogram of Turinabol. A picogram is one trillionth of a single gram. That's how advanced today's drug testing is.

Yes, many fitness models do use drugs, but believe it or not many choose not to due to health risks and integrity - something that is actually important to some people. Thinking everyone is in the same boat and must make the same decisions is a huge oversight. There's a lot more to it than just popping pills or pinging a needle anyway. If it was that easy everyone would look like an adonis.

The pre-steroid era physiques of people like Luisita Leers are proof it's possible to build an impressive physique without steroids. You'd be saying exactly the same thing about her if she was around today. "She's famous for her physique/strength, of course she's using drugs..."

[Gatsby87]

Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

"Shape" is more about genetics - same as everyone's face is shaped differently.

Size and sheer mass is obviously a much better indicator of whether drugs have been used.

Another thing that shouldn't be overlooked is how the "pump" makes the muscle swell and "pop" during a competition. It makes a huge difference compared to when a person is relaxed and the muscle isn't pumped full of blood and oxygen.

You can compare Crossfit women to pro bodybuilders who openly use steroids and obviously see they look different. People have simply underestimated how much muscle an a genetically gifted woman can develop. Like I said, if Lusita Leers was around today, 90% of guys would be saying she's on steroids. She would also probably look more impressive due to deeper knowledge of muscle building & nutrition today.

Compare Tia Clair in relaxed state vs. muscle pump competition state vs. female bodybuilding steroid user.

As someone who CrossFits, let me tell you that PED use, especially amongst games athletes, is a lot more common than people think. Not all steroids are designed to make someone look like Iris Kyle. Crossfit workouts are extremely demanding, and those who are at the highest levels train multiple times a day. There is no way they can recover from those workouts unless they take something to help with recovery. And the testing is a complete joke.

[jiminy]

Originally Posted by Gatsby87 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

As someone who CrossFits, let me tell you that PED use, especially amongst games athletes, is a lot more common than people think. Not all steroids are designed to make someone look like Iris Kyle. Crossfit workouts are extremely demanding, and those who are at the highest levels train multiple times a day. There is no way they can recover from those workouts unless they take something to help with recovery. And the testing is a complete joke.

Crossfit is very dynamic. Games athletes are much more accustomed to tailoring their training and listening to their bodies when it comes to injury prevention and recovery.

It's a fallacy to look at "Crossfit workouts" like a marathon runner would be running marathons every day and that's all their training consists of.

They're not just mindlessly going at 100% for hours every day and then saying "I can only do this by using steroids or I'll injure myself, catabolise my muscle and shrivel up and die".

Same as any other sport, you reach a point where improvement or maintenance comes through a methodical approach. Aka training smart over training hard.

A seasoned, elite Powerlifter might only attempt to "max out" at a competition, never in a gym, thus able to peak at the right time, prevent injury and eke out improvements / longevity.

[towerworld]

Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Because there are some pretty serious health risks for starters. Look how young many steroid abusing bodybuilders and pro wrestlers die.

Steroids are also illegal in Crossfit and the Olympics. Tia Clair Toomey competed in the 2016 Olympic games and was subject to the most stringent drug testing.

Like I said before, anti-doping agencies such as WADA, USADA, etc, have tightened the belts immensely over the past decade. Athletes that try to skirt around with low doses of anabolics are much more likely to get caught and are sometimes just unlucky with tainted supplements and processed foods. UFC fighter Jon Jones was caught with a picogram of Turinabol. A picogram is one trillionth of a single gram. That's how advanced today's drug testing is.

Yes, many fitness models do use drugs, but believe it or not many choose not to due to health risks and integrity - something that is actually important to some people. Thinking everyone is in the same boat and must make the same decisions is a huge oversight. There's a lot more to it than just popping pills or pinging a needle anyway. If it was that easy everyone would look like an adonis.

The pre-steroid era physiques of people like Luisita Leers are proof it's possible to build an impressive physique without steroids. You'd be saying exactly the same thing about her if she was around today. "She's famous for her physique/strength, of course she's using drugs..."

lol steroids and other ped’s are also illegal in every professional bodybuilding competition, yet it would be a miracle to find a person who is actually natural. there’s also different degrees of usage, the guy/girl pumping HGH and like whole grams of tren is going to damage his health but there are many healthy long living people who will use small doses of test, you’ve heard of TRT right?

Testing has gotten better but its easy to cheat WADA testing through microdosing, creative use of masking agents and cycling off before being tested.
why do you think jones was only caught now after like 25 fights? its the same story for really all the athletes that have been caught.

the reason why ped use is pretty much universal in the fitness industry and likely all mainstream sports is to level the playing field, if you’re not on drugs while your competitors are then you’re at a serious disadvantage.

[jiminy]

Originally Posted by towerworld [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

lol steroids and other ped’s are also illegal in every professional bodybuilding competition, yet it would be a miracle to find a person who is actually natural. there’s also different degrees of usage, the guy/girl pumping HGH and like whole grams of tren is going to damage his health but there are many healthy long living people who will use small doses of test, you’ve heard of TRT right?

Testing has gotten better but its easy to cheat WADA testing through microdosing, creative use of masking agents and cycling off before being tested.
why do you think jones was only caught now after like 25 fights? its the same story for really all the athletes that have been caught.

the reason why ped use is pretty much universal in the fitness industry and likely all mainstream sports is to level the playing field, if you’re not on drugs while your competitors are then you’re at a serious disadvantage.

If it is so "easy to cheat" these athletes shouldn't getting caught. Maybe you could offer your expertise to athletes like Jon Jones on how to cheat more effectively.

His excuse was that supplements he used were tainted. In some cases it is a legitimate excuse as when these supplements (protein powders, etc) were tested, they were found to have small traces of steroids in them and the athlete was not knowingly cheating.

The discussion is not about whether drug testing works or athletes are doping, anyway, it's about how much muscle a woman can gain naturally.

Your reasoning is largely unfounded accusations. I concede that steroids are prevalent in gyms. But in many cases, such as Tia Clair Toomey and other CrossFit women, I think these physiques are still very much naturally achievable.

I've had people claim I must be using steroids. I don't think I look all that impressive but I've been lifting for over 10 years. Obviously that amount of time and effort is going to make a difference.