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  #411  
Old 23-May-21, 04:42
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jiminy [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I feel like we have been over this all before. I keep telling you; that vegan guy was just too weak and feeble!!

I could have seriously injured him had I wanted to. When you're that scrawny and runtish, deprived of protein and nutrients not only do your muscles atrophy and become weak, but also your bones lose density and strength and are more likely to fracture. Tendons and ligaments more likely to tear. You become more sensitive to the cold. Mild illnesses become much more debilitating. Please take on board the disparity in strength and physicality. It was insurmountable.

You think you could wear a gorilla down, transitioning and flowing... Just roll for a knee bar or ankle lock if all else fails... After all, gorilla is clueless to BJJ. Of course not. Gorilla just too powerful and ferocious, would tear you a new a-hole.

I try to use these examples hoping the penny will drop and people will finally realise "oh yeah... when you put it like that, I see what you mean."

And that's just strength for you. It matters.
To be clear, I'm aware that a big enough size and strenght advantage can be insurmountable no matter the technique, and I mean between two healthy adult human without the need to bring in gorilass and other animals.
For example I'm positive that the vast majority of human population would lose to guys like Hafthor Bjorsson or Eddie Hall no matter how technical they can become.

What I'm saying is that just because you escaped from one single technique it doesn't necessarily mean the difference between you and that guy was an insormountable one, I mean it could be the case but it's not a guarantee, it's just an assumption.
It would be like telling a boxer "hey hit me with a right cross when I say go" and then dodging it, sure it's impressive but it doesn't mean you would necessarily be able to beat him in a full fledged fight.

You speak about how since he is a vegan is bones and tendons must be so frail that he could literally break in half, but honestly it seem like an exagerration to me.
If he was so sickly and frail he would not be able to practice the sport for years in the first place.

However if the strenght difference was really insourmountable he must really be insanely weak to the point of being in the bottom 0,1% of the population or something, considering that you are no strongman but just a 170 lbs with a 115 kg bench press, which is sure well above average and impressiv but it's nothing that should be insourmuntable even for guys who are weaker than average.

Out of curiosity, do you believe he is weaker than the average girl or woman?

Quote:
I also told you about the big fat guy I grappled with during my Boxing days. Now I couldn't have powered out against him, there was no size or strength advantage for me here but he was just too slow and cumbersome to make any of these techniques work. I could move/get up a lot faster than him, I was more flexible and squirrelly. I had a lot more stamina, coordination and balance. Faster reflexes that could react to what he was trying to do and counter effectively with instinct.

All these athletic qualities count for a lot. BJJ is an athletic endeavour after all. People try to draw analogies with chess and things like that, but again, I use the example of an 80 year old trying to compete. It doesn't matter if they have size and decent strength if they don't have the athleticism to use it efficiently.

Also, I have experience losing to a BJJ blue belt. He was friends with the fat guy and in the gym at the same time.

This guy basically did as you argue - was able to exploit my lack of grappling knowledge, catch me with techniques I was not prepared for or use leverage to trip and sweep me, catch my arm, take my back, etc. ... He was a little shorter and lighter so it was pretty humbling at the time.

But to do that, he was around my level of athleticism. Having knowledge of how something is done and the athleticism to do it well are 2 completely different things.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no great athlete. But having these experiences makes me realise the average Joe would have no chance against a pro athlete. They just don't have the athleticism and even if they "trained" it's not going to unlock the intangible restraints of their genetic handicaps. A lot of people don't realise how handicapped they are by their genetics. I guess it's just not politically correct to say in this day and age but it doesn't make it untrue. People like to think anyone can be anything, it's all about choice but you can't turn a Shih Tzu into a Greyhound.
My opinion is that a professional athlete with no martial arts training will usually beat a trained person of average genetics if the professional athlete has good fighting istincts and figthing intelligence that allow him to use his athletic advantage well enough to win despite the lack of proper technique.
However just because you are great athlete it doesn't mean have are good fighting istincts and iq, they don't always go hand in hand.

I point you once again to the footage of two elite professional soccer player punching each other in a ridicolous way like girly girl.
Don't you that a trained average joe would be able to clinch them and take them down without getting knocked out? I think so.

Case in point you were able to avoid the moves of that fat guy also because you had good insticts and fight qi and a fighter mindset, which should come to no surpirse since you spent all of your life thinking about fighting, watching fighting, training boxing, playfighting with your friends etc....
A professional athlete who may have never tought about violence and fighiting a single day in his life may be caught off guard by a far more experienced average joe when he is put in a situation he in unfamilar with.
This more likely when we talk about female athletes because, well, females usually have zero interest in fighting.

Another objection is that you can't make an universal assumption on the base of one single case, it's really an huge leap of logic to say "technique can only work if the athleticism of the two inviduals is comparable" just because once you were able to stop a random blue belt from a random dojo of unknow quality to submit you.
(And in fact, my personal experience tell a very different story)

We don't know how good the technique of that fat guy was, if he was more athletic he would have caught you, yes, but maybe he could have also caught you if he had the same poor athleticism but better technique.

Technique is something that has many layers and levels of detail, and the more sopistichated it is the more difficult is to see it coming and stop it on istinct.
It's not just about the most visible stuff like knowing how to execute a certain sweep or submission, far from it.
For example an essential part of what we call "technique" is using proper set-ups to make moves less telegraphed as possible, and it's something much harder to learn than just spamming the move and hoping you are faster than your opponent like beginners usually do.
Eg. There is a world of difference between swinging you legs over for an armbar (giving the to an opponent with fast reflexes the opportunity to see it coming and remove his arm) or setting it up with small adjustement that prevent the opponent from pulling his arm out even if he see it coming.


I have the feeling that you give too much universal importance to one single personal experience and you over-simplify the matter a lot, because since you never trained grappling (no, 4 lesson at a local mcdojo don't count XD) you are not familiar with how nuanced and sophisticated it can be and when you see technique fail you just go with "ah, it failed, so it can't possibly work with those two people involved" and you don't recognize if and how things could have been done more efficiently and with an higher percentage of success.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 23-May-21 at 04:47.
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  #412  
Old 06-Jul-21, 11:42
bennys bennys is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Saturday my GF was hired to mud wrestle a guy at his 20 years birthday. He was tall but thin/average I guess about 190 cm and about 75 kg. My GF is 175 cm and weights 77-78 kg and do crossfit and have good wrestling experiences. She easy defeated him with about 10-0 in 15 minutes fighting. She could have scored a lot more submissions but she played with him and let him escape from some scissors and not press with all her strength. After that she fought against some other guy and 2 girls in one-submission fights. She won vs 5 or 6 guys and the 2 girls but lost to 3 of the guys.
Next saturday my GF is going to fight a guy to his polterabend.
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  #413  
Old 06-Jul-21, 17:29
del del is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bennys [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Saturday my GF was hired to mud wrestle a guy at his 20 years birthday. He was tall but thin/average I guess about 190 cm and about 75 kg. My GF is 175 cm and weights 77-78 kg and do crossfit and have good wrestling experiences. She easy defeated him with about 10-0 in 15 minutes fighting. She could have scored a lot more submissions but she played with him and let him escape from some scissors and not press with all her strength. After that she fought against some other guy and 2 girls in one-submission fights. She won vs 5 or 6 guys and the 2 girls but lost to 3 of the guys.
Next saturday my GF is going to fight a guy to his polterabend.
She sounds impressive. Does she do this as a business? Could you share some photos or video?
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  #414  
Old 13-Jul-21, 15:32
bennys bennys is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

No its not for business, most of all for fun, but she gets paid, when she do this. And rules is no filming and pictures, while its not good for her job. My job is to secure no one filming, and of cause I like to see her wrestle.

Added after 11 minutes:

And the polterabend was not a great succes while the groom did not find mud wrestling fun at all, so my GF only wrestled with him for short time. But then instead she also wrestled with some of the other guys, who liked it. And she won 4 and lost 5. One of her wins was a triangle vs a much bigger guy, and in that fight my GF was in defence and difficulties for a long time.

Last edited by bennys; 13-Jul-21 at 15:32.
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  #415  
Old 04-Dec-21, 15:39
bennys bennys is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Friday night my gf and two other girls from our crossfit club fought vs some student guys at about 17-19 years in duels standing on small platforms and hit the opponent down with pillow on a stick. They fight vs. 14 guys and won 37 fights and lost 5. First 4 girls from the school competed and told the gyus to take part and compete with 3 strong girls, but the guys then did not knew, that it was not girls from the school and they might get surprised and a little confused when my gf and two other girls from the crossfit club were presented wearing sexy christmas costume.
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  #416  
Old 07-Feb-22, 06:10
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
My only problem with people on this website, is that they try to sell you on the guy being bigger and stronger (bigger man, marine man, bodybuilder). There's not a huge difference of strength between a lot of 150 pound dudes and 130 pound women. I started going to the gym at 150 pounds right after high school way back and couldn't even bench 135 once. I see girls bench 135 semi-regularly.
I think a lot of people are also delusional if they think a 130 pound trained women is giving a 200 pound decently athletic men (like goes to the gym 2-3 times a week lol) a lot of problems. Theres a reason when big untrained white belts go to roll with smaller women who have more training they tell the big dude to chill out and not spaz around.
We all know how good Ariel-X is and here's her (breathing very hard) going against some 40 year old dude and he's giggling through most of it.
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There's a reason that these mixed wrestling producers choose 130-140 pound men for these girls to go against almost exclusively.

Bottom line. If the strength and conditioning is anywhere near close the more skilled person should almost always win. I don't care what gender it is and I don't know why you guys have such a problem accepting it lol
It's a a lot more complex and nuanced than that.
"130 lbs trained women" and "200 lbs men that work out" are extremely broad categories, there are truly immense disparites among the members of this two groups in factors such as actuall skills and technical knowlegde, strenght to weight ratio, speed, explosiveness, reflexes, coordination and body awareness, fighting intelligence and overall talent etc....

I agree that your average female BJJ brown/black belt (as in with average strenght, speed, reflexes and other physical attributes) would very likely lose to a fit 200 lbs untrained man who work out not matter how technical she is.

However there is truly an immense gulf between your average BJJ black belt and an elite, world classe female athlete, and there are of course countless of intermediary leves between them.

The higher her level is, the more plausible a win become.

Take for example Gabi Garcia, she is a 6'1 220-250 lbs muscular roided freak who is way stronger than the vast majority of men, and she is a BJJ black belt with decades of grappling experience on top of that:




Yet she still suffered several losses against regular looking girl 50-100 lbs lighter than her, for example:

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And the girl who competes at the highest level in BJJ are not even world class atheles, they are very far from it, since it's a very niche sport where very few women competes.

If a girl can beat Gabi Garcia, there is no reason to assume she can't beat most 200 lbs unskilled men who work out too.

Of course the girls who can do that are very few and far between but it's not like they don't exist, and their level is tipically much higher than what you can find in session wrestlers and fetish videos.


Quote:
Theres a reason when big untrained white belts go to roll with smaller women who have more training they tell the big dude to chill out and not spaz around
That's because the chance of getting injured will be pretty high and people train to improve and not to get injured.
This doesn't necessarily mean that they could not win, just that it would be too risky to try in training.
Big guys are told to not spaz out in training against smaller me too, but it's not like small guys can't beat big guys.

Quote:
We all know how good Ariel-X is and here's her (breathing very hard) going against some 40 year old dude and he's giggling through most of it.
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I never heard of her (I usually don't watch fetish videos and stuff like that), how good is she supposed to be?
Because I was very unimpressed and she didn't seem particularly good in this video.

Put this guy against a girl such as Bea Mesquita and she would tap him out in 30 seconds without breaking a sweat.

That's what I meant when I talked about different levels, this Ariel X may be skilled enough to beat similar sized untrained men and that's enough to impress most people, but there are many girls that completely blow her out of the water out there.

Anyway this board is full of countless examples of girls defeating men with a size difference even bigger than this one in 100% real matches from sanctioned grappling competitions, and they are not even high level girls but they are usually just unknown amateurs.


Quote:
There's a reason that these mixed wrestling producers choose 130-140 pound men for these girls to go against almost exclusively.
Because they want to make sure the girl win in a dominant fashion and that nobody get injured in the process, plus it's not like producers have access to UFC caliber women.


Anyway I think you are giving too much importance to size and stenght, BJJ techniques are very effective for overcoming an huge strenght disadvatange altough there are still limits.

Take for example this 125 lbs guy easily tapping a 200+ lbs muscular man:
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I know it's man vs man, but they are both experienced grapplers too.

Are you sure a 130 lbs girl like Valentina Shevchenko would not be strong and skilled enough to do the same to an inexperienced 200 lbs gymrat?
Keep in mind that to break free from an armbar with raw strenght you need to bicep curl more than your opponent can deadlift, and plenty of small high level female athletes can easily deadlift more than 200-300 lbs.

I'm a 130 lbs trained guy and I have personally beaten several 200 lbs unskilled guys who were pretty athletic both in BJJ and a couple times in actual fights too, and I know for a fact there are girls stronger, faster and more skilled than me out there who could do the same.

Another very important point to talk about are heel hooks.

They are by far the most effective techniques to overcome an huge size and strenght gap, which has been proven to death in open weight MMA fights and BJJ matches for decades.
However they are extremely dangerous so you will never see them used in fetish videos or by session wrestlers against their customers (they can your knee out and cripple you before they make you feel pain, so an unskilled guy would not recognize the danger and tap in time).

That's why using fetish video as a point of reference for "limits of technique vs strenght" is misleading, because the most effective technique of them all can't be used in such format.

A girl who specialize in leglocks can overcame a much greater size and strenght difference than a girl with "old school BJJ training" who doesn't train heel hooks.

If you don't know about their effectivess, you can watch 150 lbs Lachlan Giles defeating 260 lbs BJJ black belt world champions at the highest level competiton with them:

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

And this if you want to see how dangerous they are:
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Bottom line is that a 130 lbs girl beating a 200+ strong and fit guy is very rare but it's not outright impossible, it can still happen given the right pairing.
Eg. a female olympic wrestler or UFC fighter vs a very big and strong man who has little to no skills and who is not an elite athlete in his own right, or an elite submission grappler who is an heel hook specialist vs a big guy who has no clue how to properly defend heel hooks and so on.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 07-Feb-22 at 07:01.
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  #417  
Old 07-Feb-22, 11:10
progmuze progmuze is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
It's a a lot more complex and nuanced than that.
"130 lbs trained women" and "200 lbs men that work out" are extremely broad categories, there are truly immense disparites among the members of this two groups in factors such as actuall skills and technical knowlegde, strenght to weight ratio, speed, explosiveness, reflexes, coordination and body awareness, fighting intelligence and overall talent etc....

I agree that your average female BJJ brown/black belt (as in with average strenght, speed, reflexes and other physical attributes) would very likely lose to a fit 200 lbs untrained man who work out not matter how technical she is.

However there is truly an immense gulf between your average BJJ black belt and an elite, world classe female athlete, and there are of course countless of intermediary leves between them.

The higher her level is, the more plausible a win become.

Take for example Gabi Garcia, she is a 6'1 220-250 lbs muscular roided freak who is way stronger than the vast majority of men, and she is a BJJ black belt with decades of grappling experience on top of that:




Yet she still suffered several losses against regular looking girl 50-100 lbs lighter than her, for example:

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

And the girl who competes at the highest level in BJJ are not even world class atheles, they are very far from it, since it's a very niche sport where very few women competes.

If a girl can beat Gabi Garcia, there is no reason to assume she can't beat most 200 lbs unskilled men who work out too.

Of course the girls who can do that are very few and far between but it's not like they don't exist, and their level is tipically much higher than what you can find in session wrestlers and fetish videos.


That's because the chance of getting injured will be pretty high and people train to improve and not to get injured.
This doesn't necessarily mean that they could not win, just that it would be too risky to try in training.
Big guys are told to not spaz out in training against smaller me too, but it's not like small guys can't beat big guys.



I never heard of her (I usually don't watch fetish videos and stuff like that), how good is she supposed to be?
Because I was very unimpressed and she didn't seem particularly good in this video.

Put this guy against a girl such as Bea Mesquita and she would tap him out in 30 seconds without breaking a sweat.

That's what I meant when I talked about different levels, this Ariel X may be skilled enough to beat similar sized untrained men and that's enough to impress most people, but there are many girls that completely blow her out of the water out there.

Anyway this board is full of countless examples of girls defeating men with a size difference even bigger than this one in 100% real matches from sanctioned grappling competitions, and they are not even high level girls but they are usually just unknown amateurs.



Because they want to make sure the girl win in a dominant fashion and that nobody get injured in the process, plus it's not like producers have access to UFC caliber women.


Anyway I think you are giving too much importance to size and stenght, BJJ techniques are very effective for overcoming an huge strenght disadvatange altough there are still limits.

Take for example this 125 lbs guy easily tapping a 200+ lbs muscular man:
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

I know it's man vs man, but they are both experienced grapplers too.

Are you sure a 130 lbs girl like Valentina Shevchenko would not be strong and skilled enough to do the same to an inexperienced 200 lbs gymrat?
Keep in mind that to break free from an armbar with raw strenght you need to bicep curl more than your opponent can deadlift, and plenty of small high level female athletes can easily deadlift more than 200-300 lbs.

I'm a 130 lbs trained guy and I have personally beaten several 200 lbs unskilled guys who were pretty athletic both in BJJ and a couple times in actual fights too, and I know for a fact there are girls stronger, faster and more skilled than me out there who could do the same.

Another very important point to talk about are heel hooks.

They are by far the most effective techniques to overcome an huge size and strenght gap, which has been proven to death in open weight MMA fights and BJJ matches for decades.
However they are extremely dangerous so you will never see them used in fetish videos or by session wrestlers against their customers (they can your knee out and cripple you before they make you feel pain, so an unskilled guy would not recognize the danger and tap in time).

That's why using fetish video as a point of reference for "limits of technique vs strenght" is misleading, because the most effective technique of them all can't be used in such format.

A girl who specialize in leglocks can overcame a much greater size and strenght difference than a girl with "old school BJJ training" who doesn't train heel hooks.

If you don't know about their effectivess, you can watch 150 lbs Lachlan Giles defeating 260 lbs BJJ black belt world champions at the highest level competiton with them:

[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

And this if you want to see how dangerous they are:
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]

Bottom line is that a 130 lbs girl beating a 200+ strong and fit guy is very rare but it's not outright impossible, it can still happen given the right pairing.
Eg. a female olympic wrestler or UFC fighter vs a very big and strong man who has little to no skills and who is not an elite athlete in his own right, or an elite submission grappler who is an heel hook specialist vs a big guy who has no clue how to properly defend heel hooks and so on.
I used the fetish wrestler Ariel X because she's well known on the site and a black belt in BJJ and it doesn't really matter if you think she's good or not.

The average female brown belt/black belt 130 pound vs a fit 200 pound male was really the only point I was making and you agree so I'm not sure why the long response. You took it so many different places that I had no interest in going. You're literally arguing points I never made lol.

There's real clips of strength mattering as well.

Here's a top strongman completely untrained going against a BJJ Black Belt: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]. Judging from the novel you wrote me you've probably already seen it. The black belt taps from pressure.

Were really going to act like when they have open weight grappling that usually someone in the top 3 highest weight classes win?
We going to act like Gabi Garcia's whole career isn't shrouded in claims of steroids, fake fights and people wondering what her actual grappling ability is (not to mention her moving like a stiff board)?

The fact that we're pulling crazy clips that aren't the norm and you're bringing up world class fighters and Olympians should let you know my general point is right. You're right that there's nuance to this conversation but not nearly as much as you make it sound like.

Strength is very important. Overall skill is very important. Conditioning may be more important than both of them. They all matter and to act like strength is negligible is hilarious.

This will be my last reply to you. I don't care about this the same way you do. Just make up some more points I never said and argue by yourself again lol.

Last edited by progmuze; 07-Feb-22 at 11:52.
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  #418  
Old 07-Feb-22, 12:02
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

Quote:
Originally Posted by progmuze [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The average female brown belt/black belt vs a fit 200 pound male was really the only point I was making. You took it so many different places that I had no interest in going. You're literally arguing points I never made lol.

There's real clips of strength mattering as well.

Here's a top strongman completely untrained going against a BJJ Black Belt: [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]. Judging from you're paper you wrote me you've probably already seen it. The black belt taps from pressure.

The fact that we're pulling crazy clips that aren't the norm and you're bringing up world class UFC fighters and olympians should let you know my general point is right. There's nuance to every conversation but not nearly as much as you make it sound like.
Yes, it looks like we more or less agree, but it's not like I could know it for sure before.
You just stated that "if someone believe a 130 lbs trained girl can beat a 200 lbs man he is delusional" and I replied that it's untrue, it's still possibile depending on who they are.
So I agree with your general point but I just pointed out there are exceptions.

By the way UFC fighters and olympians were just an extreme example to better drive the point home, a trained girl doesn't necessarily need to be THAT good, even tough she still need to be considerably above average.
Do you agree with it?


P.S: Yes, I already saw the video of Hafthor vs a BJJ black belt.
I already addressed that technique can overcame huge strenght disadvantages but there are still limits, and putting literally the strongest man in the world vs an average man is one of those limits.

Speaking of that you may also find interesting this video of Hafthor rolling with Gunnar Nelson in case you haven't already watched it:
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Quote:
Strength is very important. Overall skill is very important. Conditioning may be more important than both of them. They all matter and to act like strength is negligible is hilarious.
I never said strenght in neglible.
On the contray I said that some high level trained women could beat some big and strong untrained men because those women are BOTH very skilled and very strong (even 115 lbs female UFC fighters can lift more than the average man), so despite still being weaker the strenght difference would not be so large that skills could not bridge the gap.
On the other hand most female BJJ black belts would fail because they are not strong enough.

Quote:
This will be my last reply to you. I don't care about this the same way you do lol.
I just enjoy to discuss about male vs female match-ups, there is no need to have this holier than you attitude man.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 07-Feb-22 at 12:17.
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  #419  
Old 08-Feb-22, 05:23
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by progmuze [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I used the fetish wrestler Ariel X because she's well known on the site and a black belt in BJJ and it doesn't really matter if you think she's good or not.
I googled her and she received her BJJ black belt in 2019 while the video you posted is from 2014:

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She was just a blue belt at the time, and it definitely shows by the way she grappled.
This pretty much explain why she made so many mistakes and missed so many opportunities (which is pretty normal for a blue belt), and ultimately why she struggled so much with a similar opponent.

Last edited by Elbow Escape; 08-Feb-22 at 06:47.
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Old 28-Feb-22, 13:21
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Default Re: How common and realistic is it for a woman to be stronger than a man?

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Originally Posted by Amazonia [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
He is just secure in his position in life, just like many of athletically low tier men are. Maybe he is good at other things or is just generally a chill person. If you think he is "belittling" men for saying they can lose to women then maybe you're the one belittling women if you think they're such embarrassing opponents to lose to that it's somehow "insulting" to all men if they lose to them.

As for the Yemeni people, I think he just wants to show how ridiculous men from conservative cultures who preach about masculinity are when they're shorter on average than women of many liberal Western cultures. It's not a racial thing, it's the same thing with many conservative low tier whites who are extremely sexist. They're often shorter and less athletic than average. These are the kind of men who latch on to some group identities like gender and race and feel like they're offended when someone makes a joke or praises the other gender or race in a way that makes them uncomfortable. A successful Yemeni would not mind such joke and would probably laugh along with it.
If anything I am rather pleased at indian men like me being weaker than white women tbh. People in this fetish complain all the time about not finding stronger women, and here I have a whole big chunk of women who are very likely stronger than me. What's not to like?

Last edited by ....; 28-Feb-22 at 13:52.
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