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Old 15-Oct-13, 16:48
HanzVanDerKill HanzVanDerKill is offline
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Arrow How do you define "Competitive" Matches

The subject came up in another thread that if you have someone 145 vs someone 180 can you ever really call that "competitive" wrestling? I think we throw that word around alot and have different opinions of what that word should really mean. I'm curious what people look for when they are looking for a great competitive wrestling match and what people consider to be a fair and unfair in matching up opponents. Male or Female.

Is it a requirement that both wrestlers be the same weight no matter what their gender? Are the requirements different for FemVsFem and Mixed? Should the guy ideally be smaller than the girl? what do people think?

What are the requirements/ideals for a competitive matchup between a male and a female? What would be your ultimate ideal mixed match up? Is the end result (who wins) important to you in a competitive match or do you prefer that it could go either way?
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  #2  
Old 15-Oct-13, 17:00
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

First, I don't think it's necessary that recreational wrestling matches be strictly competitive. A big weight
difference, or other handicaps could compensate for strength/gender differences, just so long as they are
fairly evenly matched.
After all, there's no Olympic medal at stake!

However, yes, strictly competitive matches would require being in the same weight class, and perhaps
other things as well such as age or skill level matches. Otherwise, it is a mismatch which to me
makes for a very boring match (others may feel differently).

Perhaps rather than "competitive," "real" or "non-scripted" matches might be a preferable term. The basic principle would be to have some good action produced by well-matched partners. It would be
perfectly acceptable, for example. to match a lighter guy against a heavier girl.
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Old 15-Oct-13, 17:07
HanzVanDerKill HanzVanDerKill is offline
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Arrow Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

So my perspective on it is this:

I'm less a fan of the one-sided domination stuff as a viewer where the guy puts up little resistance or even where the guy is just hopelessly out-classed skillwise or fitness-wise. Some of my favorite mixed videos back in the day came from DWW where you had a fairly athletic guy giving my favorite DWW stars a legitimate run for their money and indeed sometimes winning! Rare times it was even one sided where the guy would get all the points. Often times there were close in size but not always. The thing I liked most about it was that both were earnestly trying to win. And it made me want to jump in there even more with some of my DWW favorites, like Petra and Emanuella and Gloria.... it didn't bother me seeing them lose.

The second perspective I have on this I learned the hard way. That just because I outweigh a girl doesn't mean she can't whoop my butt in a wrestling match. It's a multi-facited game out there on those mats. Size matters sure! but there is also strength, fitness, endurance, stamina, determination to win and not the least of all skill. So many of these female wrestlers out there are so skilled!

So for me a fair competitive match-up female or mixed need not necessarily be the same size, especially if the smaller fighter has advantages of their own. Ideally I think if they are around the same fitness level it makes it most interesting. Those DWW guys are in pretty good shape. skill wise there can be a more difference but like I said of one person of either gender is seemingly not even trying because they just don't know at all what to do I tend to lose interest as a viewer. Those are my thoughts anyway. very curious to hear what other people think! No back to work before I get in trouble at my day job! lol!
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Old 15-Oct-13, 17:30
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

Yes, but I don't think you'd be able to convince FILA or the IOC to adopt those rules!
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Old 15-Oct-13, 17:50
desertgoodguy desertgoodguy is offline
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Default Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

of course you knew that I would weigh in on this lolol

Competitive matches really don't have to do that much with size, within reason

As my wife has gotten more skilled, and what she loses in size, she makes up in determination, skill to a certain extent, and more importantly desire to win

So while size is a plus, I thin the other intangables can make up for the size and make for a competitive match
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Old 15-Oct-13, 17:57
HanzVanDerKill HanzVanDerKill is offline
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Arrow Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

Quote:
Originally Posted by freestylefan [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
First, I don't think it's necessary that recreational wrestling matches be strictly competitive. A big weight
difference, or other handicaps could compensate for strength/gender differences, just so long as they are
fairly evenly matched.
After all, there's no Olympic medal at stake!

However, yes, strictly competitive matches would require being in the same weight class, and perhaps
other things as well such as age or skill level matches. Otherwise, it is a mismatch which to me
makes for a very boring match (others may feel differently).

Perhaps rather than "competitive," "real" or "non-scripted" matches might be a preferable term. The basic principle would be to have some good action produced by well-matched partners. It would be
perfectly acceptable, for example. to match a lighter guy against a heavier girl.
Interesting. So let's say you have a match where the two opponents were different sizes, but the score at the end of the match was like 6-5... because what the smaller opponent lacked in size they made up for in lots of stamina and an edge in skill, so in the end they ended up being evenly matched even though on paper they were a mismatch. Would you find this match a good watch? and would your opinion change depending on the bigger person won in the end or the smaller person did? and would your opinion change whether the smaller person were male or female?

And then lets say you have a match where the opponents are exactly the same stats. say 5'9 165 each. and one wrestler just completely one sides the match winning a convincing 9-0. would you still find that a good watch because they are on paper a perfectly even match and let's say they even had the same level of grappling training? one wrestler just got the better of the other that day... and does your opinion change if the winner was female or if the winner was male?

Hope I don't sound nit-picky but I'm just honestly curious! I actually think I'm starting to agree with you that "competitive" may be too much of a blanket label for alot of this stuff and that more specific labeling will help steer people more to what they want to see. Things to consider for future video labeling.
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Old 15-Oct-13, 18:00
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stymie stymie is offline
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Default Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

I guess, to simplify my reply, is to say my fav company would be Amazonprods, which has stopped producing videos lately. They've pretty much nailed what I want to see in the comp genre, but it seems things are going the porno, handjob, and bodily fluids route these days. The customers are always right as usual
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Old 15-Oct-13, 18:13
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stymie stymie is offline
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Default Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

You know Monica has a separate clip store, I think it's called Domination Wrestling where she has the one-sided (in favor of the girl of course) matches. I definitely have a strong bias towards the one sided, girl winning videos. But I'd rather see a guy winning a close contest than some fantasy stuff for the umteenth time.
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Old 15-Oct-13, 19:06
freestylefan freestylefan is offline
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Default Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

If you watch hs or Olympic wrestling, you will see matches of the sort you describe. Not necessarily very interesting--just because a match is technically competitive doesn't make it good or interesting.
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Old 15-Oct-13, 22:07
graff graff is offline
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Default Re: How do you define "Competitive" Matches

"Competitive" means it's a "competition" and both people are trying to win.

That's all there is to it.

No matter how big of a size or skill difference, if they are both trying to win, then it's competitive. When people watch a "competitive" match, that's what people expect to see. If it's called "ultra-competitive", then you would expect that both people are trying with everything they have... and I would expect that if something gets to the point of 'ultra-competitive', then they are probably pretty equal.
If the people have a bit of a gap in skill or strength, then it's probable that one person might not go out 100%, but that's a preference on their part, and that gets into the realm of "semi-competitive". Obviously, it's up to the wrestlers how much effort they put forth.

I think some companies do a better job at explaining the competitiveness of their wrestlers, and sometimes I watch and think "yeah, they aren't trying".... and that's a bunch of crap, if it was described as competitive. But if I see both people putting forth a decent amount of effort, I don't care how one sided it is, I will agree that it's competitive.
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