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  #21  
Old 14-Dec-16, 02:23
hwillish hwillish is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

Just happened to run across this thread and think that post #8 is the most informative piece I've ever read concerning this subject. It's something I've always wondered about.

I have been doing sessions for longer than I care to admit and I have never been knocked out in a headscissor and I've been told by many ladies that it's almost as if I am able to go into a "trance"... they swear my carotid arteries must not exist.

One of my favorite stories is of a well known lady who would wear her sneakers to get extra "traction"...used to get really PO'd at me.

However, to me the more dangerous effect of the headscissors over a long period of time is the cumulative damage to the neck. In fact, I have been told of one well know scissor website producer who has had several surgeries on his neck.

Just saying...
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  #22  
Old 14-Dec-16, 04:34
furrygrappler furrygrappler is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

EDIT: D'OH! Seems like someone else said everything I had said. Nvm me.
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  #23  
Old 14-Dec-16, 10:21
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KillerCrushes KillerCrushes is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwillish [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Just happened to run across this thread and think that post #8 is the most informative piece I've ever read concerning this subject. It's something I've always wondered about.

I have been doing sessions for longer than I care to admit and I have never been knocked out in a headscissor and I've been told by many ladies that it's almost as if I am able to go into a "trance"... they swear my carotid arteries must not exist.

One of my favorite stories is of a well known lady who would wear her sneakers to get extra "traction"...used to get really PO'd at me.

However, to me the more dangerous effect of the headscissors over a long period of time is the cumulative damage to the neck. In fact, I have been told of one well know scissor website producer who has had several surgeries on his neck.

Just saying...
That IS an excellent post, thanks for directing me to it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by yahooserious [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
a lot of misinformation here and everywhere else. A KO from a blood choke in and of itself IS NOT DANGEROUS. Let me repeat, it IS NOT DANGEROUS. And there are NO LONG TERM EFFECTS. It is not the same thing as a KO from a blow to the head.

Here is what is actually happening with a blood choke. When the carotid artery is constricted the sensor in the carotid artery senses a reduction in blood flow. It is a safety mechanism that protects the parts of the brain that regulate life support systems from shutting down. The brain shuts down activity in the frontal lobe so that the life support systems int he brain can operate at full capacity. So when you go out it is not because your brain is being starved for oxygen it is because a safety mechanism has been triggered and the activity in the frontal lobe is being turned off.

Now all the convulsing and snorting etc. This is not a seizure or anything to worry about. Once the choke is released the same trigger in the carotid artery recognizes the return of the blood flow. This trips another safety mechanism. the rebooting of the frontal lobe so to speak. It triggers a surge of adrenalin which gets the heart pumping and speeds up the reboot. That is the euphoric rush you feel when coming out of a sleeper hold. The twitching and the disorientation is just the frontal lobe rebooting. It's random synapses firing off as a result of the frontal lobe getting kick started again.

There is no brain damage. A person would have to hold a choke for in excess of five minutes for real brain damage to occur.

The tangential risk of choke holds is damage to the wind pipe. So choke holds need to be done properly to really be considered safe. Damage to the windpipe is serious. If you feel painful pressure on your windpipe always tap. Otherwise don't worry and have fun.
With respect to neck damage, what I always found is that it never took significant (to the point of real pain) pressure to make me go out. And I did often have to coach wrestlers not to put too much pressure on my windpipe - that shit hurts and kills the experience immediately.

Although I'm not addicted to it, I do love that feeling of coming to. I didn't realize this euphoria was so common, as I never heard anyone mention it before. For me, it's indescribably cool. And now I know the cause.
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  #24  
Old 14-Dec-16, 15:52
hwillish hwillish is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

Yes, the across the throat neckscissor is the "one" hold I will immediately tap out to...it's way to dangerous!!! Otherwise, crank away and I'll just enjoy the "zone"...lol.
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  #25  
Old 25-Sep-17, 09:09
krell krell is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

I hate to tell all of you this...but not only are blood chokes hazardous to your health, the hard neck-scissors used to induce them are themselves unhealthy. The neck is a delicate and unprotected part of the human body. Any unnatural pressure on it, especially if sustained or done often, automatically involves abnormal pressure on the cervical spine. It's unavoidable. All the nerves in the body come down from the brain through the neck. Those critical nerves are also being compressed during a hard neck-scissor, and that's not to mention the noticeably increased blood pressure in the head during a neck-scissor. All of this comes under the heading of "trauma," and sooner or later it catches up to you. Don't kid yourself. There's no free lunch.
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  #26  
Old 25-Sep-17, 10:15
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LicensetoKill LicensetoKill is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by krell [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I hate to tell all of you this...but not only are blood chokes hazardous to your health, the hard neck-scissors used to induce them are themselves unhealthy. The neck is a delicate and unprotected part of the human body. Any unnatural pressure on it, especially if sustained or done often, automatically involves abnormal pressure on the cervical spine. It's unavoidable. All the nerves in the body come down from the brain through the neck. Those critical nerves are also being compressed during a hard neck-scissor, and that's not to mention the noticeably increased blood pressure in the head during a neck-scissor. All of this comes under the heading of "trauma," and sooner or later it catches up to you. Don't kid yourself. There's no free lunch.
Unless the neck scissor is strong enough to squeeze bone flat, your nerves are unaffected by a neck scissor. That's basic anatomy.

Added after 8 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by hwillish [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Yes, the across the throat neckscissor is the "one" hold I will immediately tap out to...it's way to dangerous!!! Otherwise, crank away and I'll just enjoy the "zone"...lol.
I love the throat neck scissor, but only if the lady knows what she's doing. Unlike the standard neck scissor - which is painful, a proper (to me) throat neck scissor doesn't hurt, it just restricts breathing like a hand choke. The lady puts enough pressure to control the guys breathing and it can be fun. She can also prevent your talking which can be kind of funny during a session. The trick is not too much pressure. It can be a playful hold where the lady has 100% control. As a submission hold, I agree with you. I'd tap out of a throat scissor submission immediately, but I enjoy a playful throat scissor.

One time with Julie Squeeze she throat scissored me a little too often and/or too hard and I had a bruised wind pipe or something where it hurt every-time I took a breath for 2 days. That kinda sucked and it didn't hurt a lot, but it hurt enough to be annoying. It's a hold where the minimum pressure to control breathing is ideal.

Last edited by LicensetoKill; 25-Sep-17 at 10:15.
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Old 25-Sep-17, 15:35
j94n
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  #27  
Old 25-Sep-17, 15:35
j94n j94n is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by yahooserious [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
a lot of misinformation here and everywhere else. A KO from a blood choke in and of itself IS NOT DANGEROUS. Let me repeat, it IS NOT DANGEROUS. And there are NO LONG TERM EFFECTS. It is not the same thing as a KO from a blow to the head.

Here is what is actually happening with a blood choke. When the carotid artery is constricted the sensor in the carotid artery senses a reduction in blood flow. It is a safety mechanism that protects the parts of the brain that regulate life support systems from shutting down. The brain shuts down activity in the frontal lobe so that the life support systems int he brain can operate at full capacity. So when you go out it is not because your brain is being starved for oxygen it is because a safety mechanism has been triggered and the activity in the frontal lobe is being turned off.

Now all the convulsing and snorting etc. This is not a seizure or anything to worry about. Once the choke is released the same trigger in the carotid artery recognizes the return of the blood flow. This trips another safety mechanism. the rebooting of the frontal lobe so to speak. It triggers a surge of adrenalin which gets the heart pumping and speeds up the reboot. That is the euphoric rush you feel when coming out of a sleeper hold. The twitching and the disorientation is just the frontal lobe rebooting. It's random synapses firing off as a result of the frontal lobe getting kick started again.

There is no brain damage. A person would have to hold a choke for in excess of five minutes for real brain damage to occur.

The tangential risk of choke holds is damage to the wind pipe. So choke holds need to be done properly to really be considered safe. Damage to the windpipe is serious. If you feel painful pressure on your windpipe always tap. Otherwise don't worry and have fun.
Thank you for the information
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  #28  
Old 25-Sep-17, 21:36
krell krell is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

Quote:
Unless the neck scissor is strong enough to squeeze bone flat, your nerves are unaffected by a neck scissor. That's basic anatomy.
You don't have to "squeeze bone flat" to cause damage. Compressing ANYTHING in the neck is risky business. A word to the wise....
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  #29  
Old 25-Sep-17, 22:55
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LicensetoKill LicensetoKill is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by krell [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You don't have to "squeeze bone flat" to cause damage. Compressing ANYTHING in the neck is risky business. A word to the wise....
To cause nerve damage inside the vertebrae you need to either break or crush the bone.

I don't object to a post that says there's danger in getting a hard head-scissor cause there is some danger, but a person's critical nerves aren't being compressed, which is what you wrote. These were your actual words:

Quote:
All the nerves in the body come down from the brain through the neck. Those critical nerves are also being compressed during a hard neck-scissor
Now, it's possible that sufficient twisting might cause nerve damage. A poster here (I forget his name), wrote about an experience he had when a stripper-lady got him in a brutal camel clutch and didn't let go for like 5-10 minutes and he had trouble walking after that and needed some physical therapy. I think that indicates some nerve damage, and he did make a full recovery after a couple months (it was a great story even if somewhat intense), so some nerve damage may be possible, but I think it's pretty unlikely. Some structural damage to the neck is possible - that happened to Bill Wick I gather. The chance of nerve damage from a head scissor should be quite small.
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  #30  
Old 26-Sep-17, 13:59
melman melman is offline
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Default Re: blood choke knockouts and safety

[QUOTE=LicensetoKill;302410]To cause nerve damage inside the vertebrae you need to either break or crush the bone.


Dear friends, you should know that all nerves goes through the neck, but not all of them goes through vertebrae. And this nerves could be affected by scissors and another hard presses on the neck.
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