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  #11  
Old 18-Nov-18, 21:00
KelseyTheBeautiful KelseyTheBeautiful is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

These types of threads always seem to pop up after several months to a year. You have guys talking about how terrible modern C4S videos are, or how terrible jobbers are, and all that type of stuff. Interesting at first, but it's gotten to the point where i see this over and over again. There are a few solutions

1. Don't like it, don't buy it ever again
2. Hope and wait for some "miraculous" studio to come in from the heavens and fit to your needs
3. Give custom video requests to certain producers, and hope that they don't only accept it, but deliver
4. Create your own studio and sell the videos that fit into your vision


C4S and these genre of videos don't have "active" communities where members will properly judge videos and give constructive critique on them. This fetish is niche and there are so many subsets. guys who live beatdowns. guys who like fantasy and roleplay. guys who like fully competitive. guys who like ko videos. foot fetish and smothering fans, etc. If the producer notices good sales concerning certain genres , then they are going to keep selling these types on videos. If a minority of people complain on a forum, but the video(s) keep selling well, then the producer probably isn't going to do any drastic changes.

This also applies to the jobber situation. If a jobber is supposedly bad but he keeps raking in the sales for said producer, then the producer isn't going to axe him. Especially when chances are that they have a very limited amount of people who will even let themself be filmed, let alone have their face shown. If the jobber acts annoying, it is up to the producer to tell the jobber "act this way, dont say this, etc". If the producer isn't doing that, then express your complaint to him or her.

As for the beatdown videos, I'm not even surprised you don't have a lot of studios selling them as much . From a guys perspective, why would I want to be brutally beaten down or hit in the face. For a quick payday. Ok cool, but the average guy is gonna have a day job and is gonna get questioned for having severe bruises.

Fully competitive mixed wrestling videos where the guy actually tries? There are of course bigger risks compared to the fantasy videos. Guys potentially injuring the woman, even if unintentional. Putting a large damper on her business. Even some of the most skilled women in this industry can get unintentionally injured by some reckless fool, or have injuries that keep progressing. I remember talking to one session industry legend who mentioned that she doesn't even do fully competitive anymore due to her bad back, and her busted knees. best solution to this is to have a good ref or producer who notices potential bad spots, but things can and do go wrong.

So yes, if these scripted and fantasy videos continue to be posted, then they are probably selling a good amount. Other businesses take note and want to get in the action and sales. And they pose less of an injury or risk to the model. Realistically if you don't like it, then search for studios that have what you desire, make custom requests, or create your own. Thats how it really is.

Last edited by KelseyTheBeautiful; 18-Nov-18 at 21:12.
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  #12  
Old 18-Nov-18, 21:16
ClckwrkOra ClckwrkOra is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Quote:
Originally Posted by philla76 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I wanted to bring about a discussion on the declining video content of mixed wrestling, boxing and beatdowns and find out why the content has gone from more real, brutal and aggressive action into more fantasy orientated content.

I will point out a few examples. Firstly the older vintage wrestling pages from Bill Wick I think, and sites like Green Eyes had some great content where the ladies were really rough and aggressive with the guys and there was genuinely something intriguing about the matches. There are still several up on Youtube and Porn hub that are great viewing.

Topstar and Her Legs rule used to have awesome videos back in the early 2000s but most are not even available anymore and most of what they have now is boring and fantasy.

The original grappling girls videos up to about gg200 were excellent and had some really good matches. I don't buy their videos anymore because they are too fantasy orientated. You see girls like Kaycee and just know she could go all out but only ever gets the opportunity to hit a fraction of her full potential. In the end you see a bunch of videos where the guy gets in a hold and tries to escape. One of the best matches with Kaycee you could just see the guy wanted to give it a go but wasn't allowed to.

Severa posts several images of a guy with serious bruising on Twitter but her videos on the C4S store are terrible. I recently bought a video of hers with optimism and was very disappointed.


Mistress Elise and Women hurt men are gone and were probably two of the best producers for rough play.

I understand the Shefights and mma domination sites are hard to maintain for obvious reasons and I for one couldn't imagine being smashed in the face. However, I rarely come across new content that really delivers on aggressive action. Most of the beatdowns on C4S are either fantasy or really weak and not worth watching. most of the mixed wrestling videos are very tame and usually involve a guy overexaggerating his level of pain with over the top theatrics. I've seen videos with a girl on one site and the guy is dealing with the punishment fine, and on another site the guy is writhing in agony.

I remember an old video of Arekah in an appartment where she dismantled the guy and really did a number on him. I wish we could see more videos of girls doing that to the guys. I think of all the girls out there and all the videos they do and wonder what could be.

Fight Pulse have probably lifted the bar on the real competitive matches but there aren't many others out there that have the guys being genuine in their efforts.

Personally, I think it's a combination of C4S and their strict rules on certain issues, and the fact that unfortunately for me, producers must make more money from fantasy orientated content.

The guy who ran Shefights [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] served about four years in prison for abusing disabled people (i.e., homeless guys in the vids).

Beyond that, producers might be wary of lawsuits from guys who suffer long-term brain issues from head injuries they receive while starring in fetish videos.

Even for plain old wrestling, few producers in any era film competitive mixed matches.
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  #13  
Old 18-Nov-18, 21:40
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LicensetoKill LicensetoKill is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

I think the reason why is pretty simple. People buy fewer videos because there's free stuff on Pornhub and video sharing sites. There's less money in the video business, so there's not as much incentive to make good videos.
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  #14  
Old 18-Nov-18, 23:54
bizyz bizyz is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Good,hard fought competitive mixed wrestling videos are hard to find but i have seen them offered by various producers over the years.namely,Festelle but long ago,DWW,Judell and most recently,Italian Female Wrestling out of Italy.Add to that,a few each from Doom Maidens and Hanz Vanderkill.And it used to be that most competitive mixed action began each fall from the standing position but no longer,out of fear of injury.It just seems that for producers,the market has been leaning more toward fantasy type of action.
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  #15  
Old 19-Nov-18, 00:17
Absolute Mixed Wrestling Absolute Mixed Wrestling is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

I feel the OP's pain, honestly, which is why I created [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] about three years ago.

I couldn't find the thing that I really wanted to see, so I made sure my company (and site) did all of those things in order to provide the best quality version of that thing I enjoy watching:

- our matches are 100% competitive, with ALL of our fighters actively trying to win.

- all of our 1 vs. 1 matches feature a standardized format that includes 25 minutes of non-stop, most-submissions-wins action immediately followed by 5 minutes where the winner gets to punish the loser using any holds / tactics that were allowed in the match.

- we utilize a ruleset optimized for safety but which also allows for a lot of flexibility (we don't use a referee during our matches, which means fighters frequently bend the rules under the intensity of this sort of private competition - some matches have 'dirty' tactics like fish-hooking, hand-on-throat choking, body-punching etc. and fighters often never reset after a submission is scored, sometimes they barely even release the hold before they attack again!)

- our roster of fighters includes a solid variety of everything from talented BJJ grapplers to novice submissions wrestlers as well as a variety of body types and sizes, and features many of the big names in the business.

- excellent lighting (we use four individual light rigs)

- a large wrestling area (10' x 10' of mat space)

- we use a camera person who moves around the action to get the best angle for our viewers

- our matches are properly edited with fighter intros and stats as well as scorekeeping that pops up on screen each time a submission is scored

- our website features easy navigation with no dead links etc. and it's mobile-friendly

- every match on our site has it's own match page featuring multiple clean screenshots from the match PLUS a properly-edited preview video that also includes footage from the actual match

- we have an active 'rewards' program for our customers

- we have excellent customer service that usually responds immediately, and always within 12 hrs. or so.

Anyhow, everything we do, as I mentioned at the top of this post, is done in the service of trying to deliver the best possible version of the type of matches I really love watching. If this sounds like the kind of thing you'd like, then you should definitely visit our site and check it out.

One last point, just to speak to the feeling that the quantity of content out there overall has been decreasing, I can't say yes or no to that with any sort of statistics I could point to. But I can say what I do (and I can only truly speak for myself as a producer here) is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. For example, I'm constantly in communication with multiple wrestlers, booking filming months in advance, organizing itineraries for all the wrestlers, sometimes including travel, then there's all the time spent setting up for filming, actually filming, cleaning up after filming, editing, posting, managing the website, the Facebook page, the Youtube page, and the Instagram account, scanning the interwebz for pirated content, handling the budgets and book-keeping and so on and so forth. And that doesn't even touch on the financial out-lay required to start up or keep on keepin' on. Think about it, every filming has a budget for everything from the wrestlers and the cameraperson, to things like food and travel (which are off-camera, of course, but still there) and that $$$ needs to be available.

I'm definitely not complaining, though, because I genuinely love the business. And I really do enjoy the super positive feedback I get from fans of my site so knowing I'm helping to make other people happy is pretty damn cool. That said, there is a surprising amount of work involved. Probably waaaay more than most people would guess. And I would think that amount of work is what stops more people from starting new video companies. Then, as you'll have likely noticed, there are many companies who have stores on C4s (just as an example) who only every released a handful of videos and then stopped - probably because they couldn't figure out how to make the business end of things workable for the long-term.

In the abstract, it's a fun business that shouldn't be all that hard, right? Well, kind of. It is fun. But it's pretty hard, too. Anyhow, just some thoughts on why there isn't more content out there. Hope that all made sense.

Last edited by Absolute Mixed Wrestling; 19-Nov-18 at 00:38.
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  #16  
Old 19-Nov-18, 00:49
jfm jfm is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Do you still find it a viable business with a return on your investment that makes continuing worthwhile?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolute Mixed Wrestling [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I feel the OP's pain, honestly, which is why I created [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] about three years ago.

I couldn't find the thing that I really wanted to see, so I made sure my company (and site) did all of those things in order to provide the best quality version of that thing I enjoy watching:

- our matches are 100% competitive, with ALL of our fighters actively trying to win.

- all of our 1 vs. 1 matches feature a standardized format that includes 25 minutes of non-stop, most-submissions-wins action immediately followed by 5 minutes where the winner gets to punish the loser using any holds / tactics that were allowed in the match.

- we utilize a ruleset optimized for safety but which also allows for a lot of flexibility (we don't use a referee during our matches, which means fighters frequently bend the rules under the intensity of this sort of private competition - some matches have 'dirty' tactics like fish-hooking, hand-on-throat choking, body-punching etc. and fighters often never reset after a submission is scored, sometimes they barely even release the hold before they attack again!)

- our roster of fighters includes a solid variety of everything from talented BJJ grapplers to novice submissions wrestlers as well as a variety of body types and sizes, and features many of the big names in the business.

- excellent lighting (we use four individual light rigs)

- a large wrestling area (10' x 10' of mat space)

- we use a camera person who moves around the action to get the best angle for our viewers

- our matches are properly edited with fighter intros and stats as well as scorekeeping that pops up on screen each time a submission is scored

- our website features easy navigation with no dead links etc. and it's mobile-friendly

- every match on our site has it's own match page featuring multiple clean screenshots from the match PLUS a properly-edited preview video that also includes footage from the actual match

- we have an active 'rewards' program for our customers

- we have excellent customer service that usually responds immediately, and always within 12 hrs. or so.

Anyhow, everything we do, as I mentioned at the top of this post, is done in the service of trying to deliver the best possible version of the type of matches I really love watching. If this sounds like the kind of thing you'd like, then you should definitely visit our site and check it out.

One last point, just to speak to the feeling that the quantity of content out there overall has been decreasing, I can't say yes or no to that with any sort of statistics I could point to. But I can say what I do (and I can only truly speak for myself as a producer here) is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. For example, I'm constantly in communication with multiple wrestlers, booking filming months in advance, organizing itineraries for all the wrestlers, sometimes including travel, then there's all the time spent setting up for filming, actually filming, cleaning up after filming, editing, posting, managing the website, the Facebook page, the Youtube page, and the Instagram account, scanning the interwebz for pirated content, handling the budgets and book-keeping and so on and so forth. And that doesn't even touch on the financial out-lay required to start up or keep on keepin' on. Think about it, every filming has a budget for everything from the wrestlers and the cameraperson, to things like food and travel (which are off-camera, of course, but still there) and that $$$ needs to be available.

I'm definitely not complaining, though, because I genuinely love the business. And I really do enjoy the super positive feedback I get from fans of my site so knowing I'm helping to make other people happy is pretty damn cool. That said, there is a surprising amount of work involved. Probably waaaay more than most people would guess. And I would think that amount of work is what stops more people from starting new video companies. Then, as you'll have likely noticed, there are many companies who have stores on C4s (just as an example) who only every released a handful of videos and then stopped - probably because they couldn't figure out how to make the business end of things workable for the long-term.

In the abstract, it's a fun business that shouldn't be all that hard, right? Well, kind of. It is fun. But it's pretty hard, too. Anyhow, just some thoughts on why there isn't more content out there. Hope that all made sense.
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  #17  
Old 19-Nov-18, 01:22
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KillerCrushes KillerCrushes is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

For starters....

1) Liability.
2) Piracy.

The more "realistic" the product, the more exposure the producer has and the risk vs reward ratio is a wildly asymmetric relationship. A few attaboys on a message board are not worth risking my ability to put food on the table. Others will feel differently.
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Old 19-Nov-18, 06:18
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brsimmons brsimmons is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Added after 5 minutes:

Don’t know how you see a pic like this where the guy’s thigh muscles are straining and the girl’s face is red and think it’s not 100% genuine. I was a few feet away from this match when it took place. No question it was completely real.
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Last edited by brsimmons; 19-Nov-18 at 06:18.
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Old 19-Nov-18, 11:09
kokowawa kokowawa is offline
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Default Re: declining video content

Quote:
Originally Posted by brsimmons [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Added after 5 minutes:

Don’t know how you see a pic like this where the guy’s thigh muscles are straining and the girl’s face is red and think it’s not 100% genuine. I was a few feet away from this match when it took place. No question it was completely real.
if that is claire, then it is %100 genuine. Her performances in mixed matches are completely realistic. It may look unrealistic sometimes specially when she defeated some fit guys but that can be explained by outsmarting them with a surprising high schoolgirl pin or a grapevine pin with breast smother and the contributing factor in all of that is her long legs. even in competitive settings, these moves can be very distracting for a guy who does not have enough experience .
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Old 19-Nov-18, 14:19
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Default Re: declining video content

I'll go against the grain and say that there's currently plenty of content out there that I enjoy, though I prefer more fantasy style videos than competitive matches or beatdowns.
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