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  #61  
Old 07-Sep-20, 03:09
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Oh geeze not this debate again...

1. "Functional strength" is a buzzword, not a real thing.
2. There is such a thing as "skill" which pertains to grappling as well as any other sport or activity.
3. Strength is not irrelevant to grappling just like it's not irrelevant to rolling a bowling ball. That doesn't mean that bowler with more skill and experience can't out bowl a much stronger, physically capable person.
4. Who "wins" a fight in a given set of circumstances depends on how "wins" is defined.
5. In a "real fight" with no restrictions, skill and experience can overcome a certain degree of physical ability, but there are limits (e.g. A 7 year old with a month of karate experience couldn't beat Brian Shaw with no karate experience.)
6. A 130 pound man and a 130 pound woman are not the same thing.
7. There's no way on the planet [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] lost in a 100% competitive match against a 5'1'' 130lbs "submission wrestler", and no I'm not going to pay $30 to prove this to myself.

Okay, those are my positions...let me have it!!!
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  #62  
Old 07-Sep-20, 03:47
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Oh geeze not this debate again...

1. "Functional strength" is a buzzword, not a real thing.
2. There is such a thing as "skill" which pertains to grappling as well as any other sport or activity.
3. Strength is not irrelevant to grappling just like it's not irrelevant to rolling a bowling ball. That doesn't mean that bowler with more skill and experience can't out bowl a much stronger, physically capable person.
4. Who "wins" a fight in a given set of circumstances depends on how "wins" is defined.
5. In a "real fight" with no restrictions, skill and experience can overcome a certain degree of physical ability, but there are limits (e.g. A 7 year old with a month of karate experience couldn't beat Brian Shaw with no karate experience.)
6. A 130 pound man and a 130 pound woman are not the same thing.
7. There's no way on the planet [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] lost in a 100% competitive match against a 5'1'' 130lbs "submission wrestler", and no I'm not going to pay $30 to prove this to myself.

Okay, those are my positions...let me have it!!!
But he didn't lose, they draw 0-0 with both being unable to submit the other, and as far as I understand the match was stopped prematurely precisely because she was risking getting hurt too much (that's why it cost less than other videos).
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  #63  
Old 07-Sep-20, 16:51
Joulnx10 Joulnx10 is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Oh geeze not this debate again...

1. "Functional strength" is a buzzword, not a real thing.
2. There is such a thing as "skill" which pertains to grappling as well as any other sport or activity.
3. Strength is not irrelevant to grappling just like it's not irrelevant to rolling a bowling ball. That doesn't mean that bowler with more skill and experience can't out bowl a much stronger, physically capable person.
4. Who "wins" a fight in a given set of circumstances depends on how "wins" is defined.
5. In a "real fight" with no restrictions, skill and experience can overcome a certain degree of physical ability, but there are limits (e.g. A 7 year old with a month of karate experience couldn't beat Brian Shaw with no karate experience.)
6. A 130 pound man and a 130 pound woman are not the same thing.
7. There's no way on the planet [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] lost in a 100% competitive match against a 5'1'' 130lbs "submission wrestler", and no I'm not going to pay $30 to prove this to myself.

Okay, those are my positions...let me have it!!!
I disagree with points 1 and 7. The rest is accurate, and I won't dispute.

Functional strength is a general term, but refers to how a person's strength translates to performing athletic activities. Neuromuscular balance, coordination, and acceleration are all factors that are challenged more doing activities like wrestling, football or martial arts as opposed to doing movements in a typical bodybuilding workout (presses, pulls, curls). I'm definitely not anti-weightlifting and recognize that if done the right way can assist an athlete in improving abilities in various sports, however this particular guy has a bodybuilders physique and its obvious just by watching the previews that he attempts to muscle out of every technique and doesn't yet have a grappler's understanding of efficiency of motion, or how to use the functional/ core strength he's already developed in his bodybuilding.

Regarding point 7. Remember grappling isn't a fight. In a 100% competitive grappling match, I've seen girls and guys around this size, submit new guys Razor's size in training. These guys/girls were brown/black belts and very experienced, and some of them I'd wager on winning a fight as well. The bigger guys were gassed within minutes and weak as children by the time the submissions were applied. They're bodybuilding strength didn't translate to functional strength and endurance when it came to grappling.
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  #64  
Old 07-Sep-20, 17:57
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joulnx10 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I disagree with points 1 and 7. The rest is accurate, and I won't dispute.

Functional strength is a general term, but refers to how a person's strength translates to performing athletic activities. Neuromuscular balance, coordination, and acceleration are all factors that are challenged more doing activities like wrestling, football or martial arts as opposed to doing movements in a typical bodybuilding workout (presses, pulls, curls). I'm definitely not anti-weightlifting and recognize that if done the right way can assist an athlete in improving abilities in various sports, however this particular guy has a bodybuilders physique and its obvious just by watching the previews that he attempts to muscle out of every technique and doesn't yet have a grappler's understanding of efficiency of motion, or how to use the functional/ core strength he's already developed in his bodybuilding.

Regarding point 7. Remember grappling isn't a fight. In a 100% competitive grappling match, I've seen girls and guys around this size, submit new guys Razor's size in training. These guys/girls were brown/black belts and very experienced, and some of them I'd wager on winning a fight as well. The bigger guys were gassed within minutes and weak as children by the time the submissions were applied. They're bodybuilding strength didn't translate to functional strength and endurance when it came to grappling.
When I was a 5'6 115 lbs extremely skinny and weak teenager (way weaker than an athletic and fit woman, altough still stronger than most women who don't exercise) I had a friendly grappling match with a very strong and athletic guy 80 lbs heavier than me who used to go to the gym and was quite muscular.

I had no formal training but still knows the basics of grappling/BJJ by watching tutorials online and then sparring occasionaly with my friends, which is better than nothing but still put me way below even an average white belt more than six months of real, proper training.
He on the other hand had no grappling knowledge whatsoever.

I was still able to keep up and even "won" when he said he could no longer continue because he was too tired after just a couple minutes of grappling.

Therefore I don't find so unbeliavable than a female "submission wrestler" way more athletic and fit and extremely more skilled and experienced than I was could be able to draw with a 5'7 190 lbs bodybuilder with zero skills and endurance.
Maybe I'm wrong and that's actually impossible because the size and strenght gap is too extreme, I don't have any certainties, but I would not be surprised to find out it's actually possible.
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  #65  
Old 07-Sep-20, 19:44
scientologyisbullshit scientologyisbullshit is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
When I was a 5'6 115 lbs extremely skinny and weak teenager (way weaker than an athletic and fit woman, altough still stronger than most women who don't exercise) I had a friendly grappling match with a very strong and athletic guy 80 lbs heavier than me who used to go to the gym and was quite muscular.

I had no formal training but still knows the basics of grappling/BJJ by watching tutorials online and then sparring occasionaly with my friends, which is better than nothing but still put me way below even an average white belt more than six months of real, proper training.
He on the other hand had no grappling knowledge whatsoever.

I was still able to keep up and even "won" when he said he could no longer continue because he was too tired after just a couple minutes of grappling.

Therefore I don't find so unbeliavable than a female "submission wrestler" way more athletic and fit and extremely more skilled and experienced than I was could be able to draw with a 5'7 190 lbs bodybuilder with zero skills and endurance.
Maybe I'm wrong and that's actually impossible because the size and strenght gap is too extreme, I don't have any certainties, but I would not be surprised to find out it's actually possible.
If you were able to beat a muscular guy 80lbs heavier than you, then by default, you would easily beat a fit and athletic woman who had the same level of training as that guy.... because your friend who was 195lbs would destroy an untrained and unskilled athletic woman

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joulnx10 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
The guy is not a wrestler..being big and buff like a bodybuilder doesn't make you a capable grappler..guys built like that frequently lack cardio and functional strength. There's experienced men and women grapplers half this guy's size that would mop the floor with him.
And yet there are countless anecdotes of both male and female grapplers, skilled ones, who have said they struggled with big bodybuilder white belts. Eben guys on their first day who gave them trouble.

If you want proof, visit the BJJ subreddit. These people have nothing to gain by admitting that larger men gave them hell.
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  #66  
Old 07-Sep-20, 20:01
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scientologyisbullshit [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
If you were able to beat a muscular guy 80lbs heavier than you, then by default, you would easily beat a fit and athletic woman who had the same level of training as that guy.... because your friend who was 195lbs would destroy an untrained and unskilled athletic woman
I think you misunderstood me, I'm perfectly aware that I would have effortlessy defeated a fit and athletic woman with no grappling training (I actually did it more than once), where I have stated the opposite?

I was saying that if I was able to beat a guy like that despite being physical weaker than an athletic woman and having very minimal "training", is reasonable to assume that a fit and athletic woman who is also much more skilled and experienced than I was would be able to obtain even much better results.
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  #67  
Old 07-Sep-20, 20:03
scientologyisbullshit scientologyisbullshit is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elbow Escape [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I think you misunderstood me, I'm perfectly aware that I would have effortlessy defeated a fit and athletic woman with no grappling training (I actually did it more than once), where I have stated the opposite?

I was saying that if I was able to beat a guy like that despite being physical weaker than an athletic woman and having very minimal "training", is reasonable to assume that a fit and athletic woman who is also much more skilled and experienced than I was would be able to obtain even much better results.
There are countless number of women (and smaller men) who have testified that they struggled massively (and even lost) to newbie bodybuilder dudes on the BJJ subreddit.

It would take a woman several years of training to be able to beat a larger stronger guy like that.
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  #68  
Old 07-Sep-20, 20:55
Elbow Escape Elbow Escape is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scientologyisbullshit [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
There are countless number of women (and smaller men) who have testified that they struggled massively (and even lost) to newbie bodybuilder dudes on the BJJ subreddit.

It would take a woman several years of training to be able to beat a larger stronger guy like that.
I read regularly the BJJ subreddit and other BJJ/grappling forums and I have been doing so for many years, I have never read an anecdote of a small purple/brown/black belt losing to an untrained big guy on his first day.

"struggling against" doesn't mean that you can't beat them, it usually referring to the fact that they are hard to deal with due to their strenght until they get tired and that when you roll with them you have an higher risk of getting injured in the process.

Quote:
It would take a woman several years of training to be able to beat a larger stronger guy like that.
How do we know she has not several years of training? "session wrestler" is so vague as a term that could mean anything.
Plus she didn't beat him, they draw 0-0 and they stopped the match prematurely because she was risking getting hurt, I don't find it that absurd, you are all acting like they are telling us she ragdolled him and submitted affortlessy lol

Besided that, you can't make rules so rigid about how a match would go based just on the size and "training time" of the people involved, there is much more to consider.
There are people of every kind, not every "big guy" is the same (one can be big but slow, uncoordinated and zero cardio or big and also fast and explosive etcc....), there are people more talented who learn quicker, there are people who have a more effective game plan against bigger opponents than others who may have more skills and experience overall, there are people who train for years at an average BJJ school and people who obtain greater result which less training time due to amazing high level teachers, there are people with great heart and determination who don't quit unless they are in a legit submission with no chance of escaping and there are people who surrender as soon as they are twisted in an uncomfortable way a little bit and then go online to complain that "uh big guys use too much strenght" etc....

So you can get results of every kind, even drastically against the average tendency.
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  #69  
Old 11-Oct-20, 05:53
a1275a a1275a is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

Has anyone seen Margo vs the Spoiler AMW104?

Margo is 130 lbs and hot. The male is 230 lbs. The emasculation would be off the charts losing a match like this being a big strong man losing to a petite little girl assuming it is competitive as advertised.
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  #70  
Old 12-Oct-20, 16:26
Rcjh81 Rcjh81 is offline
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Default Re: Is Absolute Mixed Wrestling real?

I did purchase it -- seems competitive enough, and she does score some submissions.

Anyone know if she's done any other videos outside of AMW?
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