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Old 30-Jan-21, 23:43
Amazonia Amazonia is offline
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Default Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

I found another interesting historic male vs female battle after I already described the encounter between [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register].

During the Thirty Years' War (1618-1648) the Swedes managed to conquer and plunder a lot of the German-speaking territory and came all the way to Vorarlberg in modern day Austria in 1647. As you might know from history, the Thirty Years' War was very brutal and a lot of German population died. When the Swedish soldiers plundered in Bregenz Forest (Bregenzerwald) area, the local men were either dead or away fighting elsewhere.

This left the local Bregenzerwald women with no choice but to organize and try to defend their villages against the Swedish invaders themselves, since there were no men around.

What followed was the "battle of the red Egg" where the Bregenz Forest women ambushed the Swedish soldiers using sickles and pitchforks.

Even though the Swedish soldiers were men and used superior weapons like muskets and halberds, they were soundly defeated by the all-women army!

It's hard to imagine why this surprising victory of women happened. Some people say that the Bregenzerwald women intimidated the Sweden men with their white feminine clothes as it supposedly made the men think they were attacked by an army of ghosts or angels or some other divine creatures, and the forest ambush took them completely off guard. This made them rout in panic and the feminine yet tough and strong forest women managed to make short work out of them.

The battle is depicted on this postcard:



The battle is still widely celebrated in that area and is known as the battle of the "red Egg" (Egg is a place in that region) since the women supposedly butchered almost all Swedish men during the battle and there was a lot of blood which colored the meadow red.

The women were very surprised themselves that they were able to beat the Swedish professional male soldiers (who were otherwise one of the best in Europe and conquered so much of German land) so easily and considered it a miracle. They decided to not wear their white clothes anymore out of humility and exchanged them to black. To commemorate this battle and the surprising victory of women the church bells rang every afternoon at 2PM. Since this was part of a religious war and the women were Catholic while the losing men were Protestant this was obviously a way to rub it in a bit.

Unfortunately there is not a lot of English material on this battle. I only found brief descriptions of it like this one from A Companion to Women's Military History:
Female civilians in rural communities sometimes banded together to attack enemy forces which threatened their homes. During the Thirty Year’s War, the women in the forest of Bregenz were living in villages left undefended after their male relatives went to fight elsewhere. When Swedish troops arrived in the region, the women organized themselves to defend their homes. Using sickles and pitchforks, they successfully drove the Swedes away.

There is more in German language:
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The German novelist Wilhelm Raabe wrote about this battle in the novel Der Marsch nach Hause in 1870 where the protagonist is a Swedish soldier who is one of the rare survivors of this battle and is captured by one of the victorious women who keeps him captive and turns him into her housemaid. The battle is briefly described in the second chapter of the book which you can find here (in German):
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This battle is also mentioned in a Swedish article here on page 6:
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I'm not sure if @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] will enjoy reading about the humiliation of his fellow Swedish men, but maybe he can translate us the key parts?

Last edited by Amazonia; 31-Jan-21 at 00:17.
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  #2  
Old 31-Jan-21, 08:58
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazonia [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I found another interesting historic male vs
This battle is also mentioned in a Swedish article here on page 6:
[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I'm not sure if @[Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register] will enjoy reading about the humiliation of his fellow Swedish men, but maybe he can translate us the key parts?
LOL

But very interesting.
I never heard about this events, and i know lots of history.

But your link tells this...

"Ett minnesmärke från det trettioåriga
kriget som jag inte överhuvudtaget finner dokumenterat i Sverige vill jag gärna uppmärksamma er på"

In english
" One memorial from "the thirty years war" about an event i cannot find some documentation in sweden at all, and i would like to get your attention to is..."

Looks like the swedish historians wants to forget this humiliating "incident" for the swedish military...


The text also says
"De svenska soldaterna blev rädda för
dessa vitklädda varelser som de såg som
himmelska när de kom rusande från skogen
– så rädda att de inte kunde försvara sig
och bara en enda svensk soldat överlevde"

In english

" The Swedish soldiers became afraid
these white-clad creatures (females) that they saw as
heavenly when they came rushing from the forest
- so scared that they could not defend themselves
and only one Swedish soldier survived"

Male soldiers got soo afraid when they saw female fighters they could
not defend themselves....

Sure...

Or they just got their asses kicked?
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  #3  
Old 31-Jan-21, 14:05
Amazonia Amazonia is offline
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepkick [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Looks like the swedish historians wants to forget this humiliating "incident" for the swedish military...
Thank you for translating, deepkick!

Maybe Swedish tourist men get teased about it if they go to Vorarlberg, lol.

The local people in that Austrian region seem to be very well aware of this story and proud of it (at least the women lol). Like I mentioned the women changed their folk costume dress from white to black after that battle and wore black ever since, using the white one only on special occasions to commemorate the battle. The white version is specifically referred as "the Swedish one" or the "Schwedenjuppe" - I think Juppe is their name for women's folk costume so that would be "the Swedish women's folk costume".

This is the black feminine folk costume worn in Bregenzwald since after the battle:





Whenever women wear the white folk costume, it's to remember the victory of Bregenz Forest women against the Swedish men.

Here they sell the "Swedish Juppe" so that young women can honor the tradition of their victorious female ancestors:
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The local cheese company "Alma" also honors this memory and has a woman wearing the "Swedish" white folk costume depicted on it:





The company mentions the battle on their website:

Die Alma Sennerin in ihrer originalen Bregenzerwälder Tracht ist das älteste Markensymbol der österreichischen Milch- und Käsewirtschaft. Diese Tracht wird übrigens bis heute an Festtagen in Vorarlberg getragen. Und bis heute werden die Trachten in der Bregenzerwälder Juppenwerkstatt so wie früher aus wertvollen Stoffen in Handarbeit genäht. Die „weiße Juppe“ oder „Schwedenjuppe“ gilt der Sage nach als die ursprünglichste Juppe. Wehrhafte Wälderinnen sollen im Dreißigjährigen Krieg in der Schlacht an der „Roten Egg“ in weißen Juppen die feindlichen Schweden vertrieben haben. Der Sage nach hielten die feindlichen Soldaten die weiß gekleideten Frauen für himmlische Wesen.

(Translation: The Alma dairywoman in her original Bregenzerwälder folk costume is the oldest company symbol in the Austrian milk and cheese industry. This folk costume is worn until this day on special occasions in Vorarlberg and they're still made by hand out of the finest fabrics. The "white Juppe" or "the Swedish Juppe" is according to the legend the original women's folk costume. During the Thirty Years' War the Bregenz Forest women defended against the Swedes at the "red Egg" wearing white folk costumes and expelled the enemies. According to legend the enemy soldiers thought that the white-clad women were heavenly beings.)

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And here is an old postcard with women wearing the white folk costumes and weapons to remember their victory over the Swedes:



It's a very interesting local tradition to say the least.

Last edited by Amazonia; 31-Jan-21 at 16:35.
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Old 31-Jan-21, 14:55
Issarg Issarg is offline
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

After the end of Covid a lot of MvsF member are going to pass their holiday in Bregenz
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Old 31-Jan-21, 15:03
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Unfortunately, it seems to be a legend
No historical evidence about this fact from what I have read.
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Old 31-Jan-21, 15:43
tonymontana tonymontana is offline
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Interesting. Are there any real historic battles between brother and sister or mother and son. I know of only one, cleopatra vs Ptolemy
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Old 31-Jan-21, 16:20
Amazonia Amazonia is offline
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issarg [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
After the end of Covid a lot of MvsF member are going to pass their holiday in Bregenz
It's very beautiful there, but you need to be careful not to get your butt kicked by local girls like the Swedish lol.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonymontana [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Interesting. Are there any real historic battles between brother and sister or mother and son. I know of only one, cleopatra vs Ptolemy
There was one such battle in Portugal where Alfonso defeated the forces lead by his mother Teresa for the control of Portugal with the help of the Templars.

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Old 02-Feb-21, 13:47
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Quote:
Originally Posted by Issarg [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
After the end of Covid a lot of MvsF member are going to pass their holiday in Bregenz
I would be great way to attract fans/ tourists, to recreate this battle in a less bloody way.

Here in sweden we have many battles recreated, like the battle of Foteviken, there thousands of vikings-wannabies from all over Europe dress up and come to have a friendly fight to recreate the real historic battle .

I would definetly go to Bregenz if they did like a femdom themed fight like that. ❤
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Old 02-Feb-21, 14:32
Amazonia Amazonia is offline
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepkick [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
I would be great way to attract fans/ tourists, to recreate this battle in a less bloody way.

Here in sweden we have many battles recreated, like the battle of Foteviken, there thousands of vikings-wannabies from all over Europe dress up and come to have a friendly fight to recreate the real historic battle .

I would definetly go to Bregenz if they did like a femdom themed fight like that. ❤
It looks like they already recreated it in the past. Here is one reenactment from the pre-WWII period.

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Here is another picture. It seems this was done in 1936.

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"Schwedenspiel" von Kaspar Meusburger (1878*1951)

1936 Mai Freilichtspiel. Den Hintergrund bildet die Sage der Schlacht der Bregenzerwälderinnen am Fallenbach (Egg) gegen die Schweden.


Unfortunately it doesn't look like they're still doing that.
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Old 02-Feb-21, 20:18
Backdoorman Backdoorman is offline
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Default Re: Historic male vs female battle: Swedish soldiers vs Bregenz forest women 1647

Quote:
Originally Posted by deepkick [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
LOL

But very interesting.
I never heard about this events, and i know lots of history.

But your link tells this...

"Ett minnesmärke från det trettioåriga
kriget som jag inte överhuvudtaget finner dokumenterat i Sverige vill jag gärna uppmärksamma er på"

In english
" One memorial from "the thirty years war" about an event i cannot find some documentation in sweden at all, and i would like to get your attention to is..."

Looks like the swedish historians wants to forget this humiliating "incident" for the swedish military...


The text also says
"De svenska soldaterna blev rädda för
dessa vitklädda varelser som de såg som
himmelska när de kom rusande från skogen
– så rädda att de inte kunde försvara sig
och bara en enda svensk soldat överlevde"

In english

" The Swedish soldiers became afraid
these white-clad creatures (females) that they saw as
heavenly when they came rushing from the forest
- so scared that they could not defend themselves
and only one Swedish soldier survived"

Male soldiers got soo afraid when they saw female fighters they could
not defend themselves....

Sure...

Or they just got their asses kicked?
Dirty little secret about warfare: it's seldom about "who is the better fighter" and more about "who can get the drop on the other."

And, honestly, if a bunch of women appeared out of the woods to beat my ass, I would probably be left too baffled to defend myself too.
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