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  #21  
Old 26-Jul-20, 22:38
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

I agree with Royh regarding NoFap. Even if it is not as cruel and dangerous as conversion therapy, they aim to keep guilt and shame into sex, and to define an arbitrary separation between what is normal and what is not.
An insatisfaction regarding sexuality can be created by anxiety, lack of self-esteem or other issues, but trying to change desires is rarely a solution and managing self-acceptance is essential...and even the concept of sex addiction is not widely recognized. Far too often it is a judgmental look on private lives.

To answer the original question, I would also say it is deeply ingrained desire. Intense, shared emotions and sensations matter a lot, and traditional expressions of sexuality appear too narrow for me.
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  #22  
Old 26-Jul-20, 23:33
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backoepje [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Super interesting for me. I have the same 'problem' (or rather, inconvenience as it's harder to find a fitting sexual partner). I have tried nofap years ago. Lasted about 130 days, but didn't have a sexual partner during that time so there was no opportunity to rewire my brain to regular sex.

I'm not 100% sure if what you are saying is true and that nofap might help generating interest for normal sex, but it does seem to make sense to me. Do you have experience with it yourself? With that I mean: "Were you exclusively liking the femdom scene, and are you now after doing nofap yourself able to enjoy normal sex as well?"
Absolutely...

I never got aroused by non-muscular women, boobs. Never masturbated to regular porn. Got into a relationship with an Amazonian girl – but still found sex a chore, and found it much easier to get satisfaction on my own (not uncommon in the age of the Internet).

What really clarified the problem for me was buying a Fleshlight.

I was getting into a relationship with a girl at the gym, and thought: it's been a while, I better see if I can get my regular sex game back – spent years indulging femdom/mixed wrestling ... Bought a Fleshlight as a training device (didn't realise ppl used them for that)..

Quickly realised I couldn't stay hard in the thing; couldn't get off to regular porn at all ... So I had successfully abstained a long time ago, and it had worked to an extent ... I stumbled on NoFap, and found my problem was common, and could be described as porn addiction, and that loss of sensitivity in the penis was common due to the grip you use.

A vagina (or Fleshlight) is a much lower bandwidth stimulation than your own hand with "the grip" ... Your hand is more effective than any vagina, mouth or arse is ever going to be ... And people addicted to porn all have this problem ... It's an analogy for the whole thing.

So I knew perfectly well then I had to abstain then ... And I can absolutely attest, within 2 weeks, I was getting more attention from girls – it's about the time abstaining produces a spike in testosterone ... When I tried the Fleshlight again after a month, it was a whole lot easier.

Some people need to abstain for a lot longer ... I think severe PIED can take a year ... But it clarified the problem: you're burnt out and overstimulated ... The penis itself loses sensitivity.

Touch alone is enough ... You don't need fetish stuff or porn when you're as you should be – and many sex therapists recommend masturbating without porn or imagery, in order to get to know your own body ... I can now get into regular porn – and sometimes crave it more than fetish stuff ... But I'm very selective with it.

I'd say:

1) Abstain .. Lift weights and be productive .. I use the Manhood app on the Appstore to track my abstaining, and sign up to NoFap if it makes it easier.

2) Consider a Fleshlight, and use it to gauge where you're at in terms of physical 'recovery' (every porn addict has this problem).

3) Consider a surrogate sex therapist, or an escort, once you know you've got the physical side taken care of ... Or ideally, find a nice girl and be completely open about your problem (or lie and say an ex put you off sex or something) ... A lot of girls have been through similar things and will completely understand ... But I can promise it's 100% treatable ... Sex therapists deal with much more complex issues than this successfully (religious indoctrination, extreme frigidity, trauma).

I kind of purposefully relapsed when coronavirus quarantine came in, because I wasn't going to be meeting girls for a while, and I'm not 100% better ... I'm still a masochist, and actually looking forward to booking some mixed wrestling sessions ... It is all about balance ... I'm abstaining again now (resetting) as quarantine eases – because at least now I know how this works

Added after 42 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
We can agree to disagree on the extent to which sex is a physically stimulating experience, but I think it's more of a red herring in this case. As you said in your quote above, people such as myself with a predilection for mixed wrestling/femdom don't rely on physical stimulation to achieve sexual arousal. Instead, it is deeply psychological and cuts into a man's worldview and male identity. It pertains to his beliefs about men and women and his assumptions about how their interactions should be in the world. For this reason, I would insist that people who achieve arousal this way very much do have a "different sexuality" from those rely on physical stimulation alone. It operates on a different frequency altogether than does desiring the touch and stimulation of another person.

I think part of the disconnect between us is due to the fact that there are those men who see mixed wrestling as a stimulating, adrenaline pumping, competitive experience. People like this are more compatible with things like sex wrestling and mixed wrestling as foreplay. According to my aforementioned poll, this type of guy is actually about a 60% majority on this forum (at least among active participants), so they may or may not be more compatible to with what you're prescribing.
Well I'm coming at this from two perspectives: a full-on masochist from early childhood, who was, for all intents and purposes, of a different sexuality ... To someone who realised that was partly a narrative I gave myself to justify a form of addiction..

It took complete abstinence for me to get aroused by something as simple as touch ... As I said in my tl;dr post above, it took being unable to get aroused with a Fleshlight (and several girls) before I realised there was a simple problem relating to this habit .. And that, when it comes to sex, mind and body are one in the same.

You mention how this cuts into male identity and world view ... I'd hazard we may have both had overbearing, dominant father figures, who instilled a form of misogyny, in childhood, that saw losing to a girl as the ultimate humiliation? ... And while this fetish tends to make us behave like male feminists (even radical feminists), I would say it's rooted in misogyny ... And it's possible part of my 'normalisation' has come from having some very strong female training partners at the gym, who've desensitised my feelings of inadequacy when they lift heavier than me (as a 6'1 200lb guy), or when I'm hanging onto my tall Amazon training partner after we've both done a leg session, and she's not even breathing heavily ... I would concede, if there's a psychological aspect, you may have to resolve it in a non-sexual setting (I don't know whether session wrestling achieves that)

Last edited by Ryan Futuristics; 26-Jul-20 at 23:33.
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  #23  
Old 27-Jul-20, 01:13
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InTheFlesh86 InTheFlesh86 is offline
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Futuristics [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Well I'm coming at this from two perspectives: a full-on masochist from early childhood, who was, for all intents and purposes, of a different sexuality ... To someone who realised that was partly a narrative I gave myself to justify a form of addiction..

It took complete abstinence for me to get aroused by something as simple as touch ... As I said in my tl;dr post above, it took being unable to get aroused with a Fleshlight (and several girls) before I realised there was a simple problem relating to this habit .. And that, when it comes to sex, mind and body are one in the same.

You mention how this cuts into male identity and world view ... I'd hazard we may have both had overbearing, dominant father figures, who instilled a form of misogyny, in childhood, that saw losing to a girl as the ultimate humiliation? ... And while this fetish tends to make us behave like male feminists (even radical feminists), I would say it's rooted in misogyny ... And it's possible part of my 'normalisation' has come from having some very strong female training partners at the gym, who've desensitised my feelings of inadequacy when they lift heavier than me (as a 6'1 200lb guy), or when I'm hanging onto my tall Amazon training partner after we've both done a leg session, and she's not even breathing heavily ... I would concede, if there's a psychological aspect, you may have to resolve it in a non-sexual setting (I don't know whether session wrestling achieves that)
You're a peculiar guy. I actually don't disagree with everything you wrote (I don't entirely agree either), but just practically speaking, it seems like an odd approach to come onto a forum like this with a narrative of, "this fetish is unhealthy and possibly morally wrong, you ought to quit justifying it and take these therapeutic measures to restore yourself back to being a normal person". And you chose to take this approach on a thread where no one was asking for advice or help?

I also have a hard time following you. In one post you seem to defend nofap, which is primarily a no porn/no masterbation movement, then you deride femdom as being rooted in misogony, but later you report that you "purposefully relapsed" and you're "actually looking forward to booking some mixed wrestling sessions". You ignored my reasons for thinking that mixed wrestling often functions differently than porn and dismissed it as a narrative that one gives themselves to justify their behavior. Yet later you seem to agree that there are psychological aspects to this "fetish" that need to be addressed.

I'm someone who actually enjoys analyzing how this stuff works and understanding the nuts and bolts of it, but your insistence on framing this as a "moral" or "health" issue isn't necessary and makes people less likely to listen to you.
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  #24  
Old 27-Jul-20, 05:27
Jontheairbender Jontheairbender is offline
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Backoepje [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
Super interesting for me. I have the same 'problem' (or rather, inconvenience as it's harder to find a fitting sexual partner). I have tried nofap years ago. Lasted about 130 days, but didn't have a sexual partner during that time so there was no opportunity to rewire my brain to regular sex.

I'm not 100% sure if what you are saying is true and that nofap might help generating interest for normal sex, but it does seem to make sense to me. Do you have experience with it yourself? With that I mean: "Were you exclusively liking the femdom scene, and are you now after doing nofap yourself able to enjoy normal sex as well?"
Im 4 months in to nofap so maybe I can update when I get results (success or failure).

I havent researched nofap super strongly but have posted there and have never encountered any of the judgmental stuff mentioned here. Ive just seen it as a place where people who want to try the method to improve their lives can give it a go and get/give support with others.

For me I dont care what someone does to get off as long as its consensual, would never judge someone, but i need to make a change in my life and there is some chance nofap might be the answer.
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  #25  
Old 27-Jul-20, 20:02
Joulnx10 Joulnx10 is offline
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

This topic is very eye opening to me. I'm finding more amnd more that I require some sort of pain to be inflicted on me to achieve arousal. I'm still very interested in regular sex and get hard from oral and manual stimulation..but have trouble keeping erect if there isn't some sort of power dynamic at play. This has sunk some of my more recent attempts at a normal relationship

Thanks to Ryan and others for sharing their experiences. I may go down this Nofap road to see what results I experience.

While abstaining from masturbation is the main goal, have you also abstained from viewing sexual images/ videos entirely. While I've been able to abstain from wanking for a few weeks here and there..not viewing any vids and images presents an all new challenge for me.
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  #26  
Old 28-Jul-20, 00:44
Jontheairbender Jontheairbender is offline
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joulnx10 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This topic is very eye opening to me. I'm finding more amnd more that I require some sort of pain to be inflicted on me to achieve arousal. I'm still very interested in regular sex and get hard from oral and manual stimulation..but have trouble keeping erect if there isn't some sort of power dynamic at play. This has sunk some of my more recent attempts at a normal relationship

Thanks to Ryan and others for sharing their experiences. I may go down this Nofap road to see what results I experience.

While abstaining from masturbation is the main goal, have you also abstained from viewing sexual images/ videos entirely. While I've been able to abstain from wanking for a few weeks here and there..not viewing any vids and images presents an all new challenge for me.
Everyones journey is different but for me I havent abstained from viewing, but I view less now than I did at the start.

I tried doing it without viewing at first but it was impossible - no matter what you do you will see stuff unless you want to live in a box. Happy for you to pm me if you have any other questions if this is getting a bit off topic.
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  #27  
Old 28-Jul-20, 02:41
ksr32 ksr32 is offline
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

This is a question that seems to pop up in various forms with some regularity.

The prevailing wisdom among the session wrestlers I have met (who are always very curious about this topic) is that there is usually some childhood event that triggered this fetish. All I can say is that for myself, there was never a neighborhood girl or some schoolgirl bully that pinned me down or humiliated me when I was young.

I do remember, at a pretty young age, reading the Encyclopedia Brown books and being mesmerized by Sally, Encyclopedia's friend and physical protector. Later I recall reading fantasy books and rereading over and over again certain sections where dominant female warriors or wizardesses bested their male opponents.

I was a teenager when the internet was really getting going in force. Like many kids my age, I joined BBS's to play online games and socialize over the internet. One day it occurred to me that there was a whole section of the BBS devoted to porn, and maybe I should search for something. To this day, I can still remember in detail the picture of the topless blond in the boxing ring looking fierce and like she would demolish any male challenger.

With the perspective of age, the day I discovered Flamingo seems like a watershed moment in my life. Somehow I had figured out that the right term to search for was "mixed wrestling", and sure enough Flamingo popped up. It was the embodiment of fantasies that I never even knew that I had harbored, with hot, fit, strong women wrestling guys into submission and making them beg for mercy. The school days couldn't end fast enough and every day I raced home to explore a new corner of this world on the internet. From Flamingo, I moved to Joan Wise, from Joan Wise, to Grappling Girls, and on and on it goes so many years later.

How this world impacts the rest of our lives is personal to each one of us. For me, if I am candid, I have to admit that it has been an impediment to being in relationships and finding lasting companionship. Sex pales in comparison to watching a wrestling video, and performing sexually has accordingly oftentimes been quite difficult. I have lost more than one relationship over this, and it is difficult for me to start new relationships since I know that this issue will rear its head in short order.

The flip side is the joy the fetish brings. The excitement when a new clip comes out with one of my favorite performers. I look at the description on Clips4Sale and it sounds like they must have read my mind. There's the thrill of going back and watching clips of your favorite wrestler as she dominates, makes her opponent beg for mercy or perform some other humiliating act that you didn't even know you were fantasizing about.

But there's a loneliness to it all. Our paths cross on this message board and elsewhere in the recesses of the internet. I meet session wrestlers that are celebrities in this little world I have created for myself over so many years. I have spent hours studying videos of them, cataloging their every word and expression in the hopes of somehow understanding them in a way that makes the fetish more real. We wrestle and it's amazing and then we go our separate ways to live our everyday lives.

I think everyone needs to answer this question in their own way, and I hope everyone finds the answers that they are looking for. I am still searching.
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  #28  
Old 29-Jul-20, 06:30
Ryan Futuristics Ryan Futuristics is offline
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Default Re: How engrained is this wrestling desire for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheFlesh86 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
You're a peculiar guy. I actually don't disagree with everything you wrote (I don't entirely agree either), but just practically speaking, it seems like an odd approach to come onto a forum like this with a narrative of, "this fetish is unhealthy and possibly morally wrong, you ought to quit justifying it and take these therapeutic measures to restore yourself back to being a normal person". And you chose to take this approach on a thread where no one was asking for advice or help?

I also have a hard time following you. In one post you seem to defend nofap, which is primarily a no porn/no masterbation movement, then you deride femdom as being rooted in misogony, but later you report that you "purposefully relapsed" and you're "actually looking forward to booking some mixed wrestling sessions". You ignored my reasons for thinking that mixed wrestling often functions differently than porn and dismissed it as a narrative that one gives themselves to justify their behavior. Yet later you seem to agree that there are psychological aspects to this "fetish" that need to be addressed.

I'm someone who actually enjoys analyzing how this stuff works and understanding the nuts and bolts of it, but your insistence on framing this as a "moral" or "health" issue isn't necessary and makes people less likely to listen to you.
I can see how I'm coming across as contradictory .. There is the perspective in psychoanalysis that sex itself is traumatic, and we evolved fantasy – whether S&M or the fantasy of romantic love – as a sort of augmented reality for it.

You remove the fetish from getting beaten up by a powerful woman, or the lust/love from intercourse, and you're left with torture and rape .. So right from the beginning, I think ideas like healthy and moral are relative, and whether a fetish is healthy comes down to whether it helps or hinders overall.

I think the positive case for a fetish is that people get bored of sex .. But couples who share a fetish can maintain excitement and intimacy for decades – so long as it's balanced .. I think without femdom, I'd be a much less balanced person.

The problem is, healthy, balanced girlfriends, who only want to get home and head scissor their partners, are virtually nonexistent .. I've known one girl who's a true domme – Maggie Siff type, whose fascination with beating smaller guys at armwrestling on nights out gave us an instant connection .. But, like almost all, she winds up marrying a big guy who works in construction.

I don't care about the politics and ideology behind NoFap – most the guys on the Reddit are normal, 20-something guys who've been horrified to find that, perhaps after 5 years of Internet porn, they couldn't get it up for a new relationship, or that they're just not meeting anyone .. What I commend them on is simplifying what seemed like a complex problem.

Guys like Joe Rogan – who clearly appreciates strong, powerful women (and I'd imagine almost certainly had the kind of father I'm talking about) – are no different from us .. I think it's a common turn on; not a pathology .. The pathology is basically just porn addiction.

That really simplified it for me .. Whether it's wrestling, feet or questionable age ranges, if you're masturbating 14 times a week, it's very likely you're going to have problems with regular relationships .. And maybe motivation to meet people and better yourself .. I do think there's value in mixed wrestling sessions .. But I think you get that same value from (as Rogan's talked about) getting submitted by 120lbs girls in a BJJ class – but a BJJ purple belt is infinitely more likely to attract the right type of woman, and become the right type of man. As an analogy.

Added after 11 minutes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joulnx10 [Only Registered Users Can See LinksClick Here To Register]
This topic is very eye opening to me. I'm finding more amnd more that I require some sort of pain to be inflicted on me to achieve arousal. I'm still very interested in regular sex and get hard from oral and manual stimulation..but have trouble keeping erect if there isn't some sort of power dynamic at play. This has sunk some of my more recent attempts at a normal relationship

Thanks to Ryan and others for sharing their experiences. I may go down this Nofap road to see what results I experience.

While abstaining from masturbation is the main goal, have you also abstained from viewing sexual images/ videos entirely. While I've been able to abstain from wanking for a few weeks here and there..not viewing any vids and images presents an all new challenge for me.
Absolutely true story from today ..

I'd done about 2 weeks .. Not viewing material is thought to be important .. 'Edging' (not masturbating to completion) is reinforcing the same patterns, .. They really see porn itself as the problem.

I'd been doing okay (visiting here was as close as I came to relapsing) – but found this conversation, rather than the picture threads .. The real key is to be busy and engaged with things .. And if you're not: find new things .. But I had a session at a new gym, and got talking to an IFBB pro figure model – who's got a page on GirlsWithMuscle.com – and just had her very round bicep and intense eye contact in my head when I was trying to get to sleep .. So reset my tracker app – no big deal .. What you don't want to do is get back to a chronic habit – and being strict may be the best way to do that

Last edited by Ryan Futuristics; 29-Jul-20 at 06:30.
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